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Subject: Legacy: the 4th Pandemic expansion (spoilers, of course) rss

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Richard Ham
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So I'm still pretty happy with my previous "13th month" variant, but I've been lately thinking about how to use all the P:L content on my original Pandemic board as a true expansion, and here's what makes sense to me.

Basically, in the same way that other Pandemic expansions come with several different modules you can turn on and off, here's my take on the P:L modules you can use on your original Pandemic set (for those times when you don't want to look at all the stickers). I've tried to change the rules of P:L as little as possible, mostly only addressing the lack of stickers by using other proxies:

MODULE 1: Military Bases
Can be built anywhere in the world as normal, and shuttle flights are available between them and other building types (as if everyone has the "Multiple Identities" trait... no conspiracies here). Once a base is built, it allows the placement of roadblocks by any player up to 3 directly linked cities away from the base. (This slight mod is needed because there's no region dividers on a regular board - if used with the P:L board for ongoing play, simply use the region dividers for limiters as per regular P:L rules)

If players manage to build 1 military base in 4 of the 6 regions of the world (North America, South America, Europe, Africa, Asia and the Pacific Rim, as defined by the P:L board), then one of the "regular" diseases present in the game (player's choice) does not have to be cured.

Note: The operation expert can build military bases the same way he can build research stations.

Note: The bio-terrorist can not destroy military bases. Also, he has to play infection cards to get past roadblocks (thereby narrowing down his location).

MODULE 2: Mini-quarantines
These work exactly as in P:L, no changes. They can work in tandem with the quarantines from State of Emergency. The colonel can use his special ability to remotely deploy P:L quarantines just like he can with the State of Emergency quarantines.

MODULE 3: COdA
During setup, create a supply of 24 Faded figures and put the rest back in the box.

Before infecting cities, draw one card from the infection deck, note the color, and reshuffle it into the deck (or pick one of the four colors randomly in any way you see fit). This color is the COdA virus for this session. The cubes of this virus will now be used as "Faded cubes" to mark which cities should receive Faded figures. They do not function as normal virus cubes and are not considered for any game effects that would remove virus cubes. They are functional proxies for the green "faded city" stickers of P:L.

Place one of these "Faded cubes" on each the 12 cities of that color to indicate that these are Faded Cities, and keep the rest ready to place on cities of other colors in case the Faded spread into them (which means these cities will produce Faded figures instead of virus cubes in the future, as per P:L rules). Then continue with setup as normal.

If a non-COdA colored city needs to be marked with a Faded cube, and there are no more available, the game is immediately lost.

For every Faded city infection or city card drawn, place Faded figures on the board as per normal P:L rules (infection cards can cause outbreaks, city cards cannot). If there are no available Faded figures, the game is lost.

As in regular P:L, Faded figures cannot be treated via normal means, when they spread to a city with a research station or vaccine factory they destroy it, and if a player ever starts their turn on a city with Faded figures, they will take one scar. This scar is represented not by stickers, but by putting a Faded figure from the supply directly on the character's card. The first scar has no effect, but if a 2nd scar is later applied, that character is lost and is replaced by a civilian as per P:L rules and the Faded figures are returned to the supply.

A cure can be found for CoDA in the same way as the Mutation virus in On the Brink, namely submit 5 city cards to a research station, at least one of which is a city that currently holds Faded figures. As in State of Emergency, the research station where this happens is immediately transformed into a COdA vaccine factory along with one vaccine dose being placed on the board, and it starts producing vaccine doses, which can be used as in P:L. From now on, COdA Vaccine factories can be built as per normal P:L rules.

Following standard P:L rules, COdA vaccine doses can remove Faded figures and inoculate cities. To mark that a city has been successfully inoculated (as per P:L rules), place a Faded figure lying face down in that city (this is a functional proxy for the orange "inoculated city" stickers of P:L).

To win, the cure for COdA must be found along with the other 3 viruses. However, if COdA is eradicated (i.e. all faded cities are inoculated), then one of the "regular" diseases present in the game (player's choice) does not have to be cured.

Note: when combined with the Superbug challenge, the COdA vaccine cannot be used for the Superbug, and the Superbug vaccine cannot be used for COdA. However, both types of vaccine factories produce one of each type of vaccine every turn once the appropriate cure has been found.

Note: when combined with the In the Lab expansion, remove all sequence cards that have the COdA color cube spots on them during setup.

Note: The operation expert can build COdA vaccine buildings (once available) the same way he can build research stations.

Note: The bio-terrorist can only destroy a COdA vaccine factory by discarding two cards matching the color of the city.

Note: The bio-terrorist will take scars when starting on a location with Faded, just like regular characters, and can even be killed, leading to his loss. However, taking a scar will not directly reveal the bio-terrorist's location.

MODULE 4: Patient Zero
During setup, when the first infection card is drawn, before placing cubes (or Faded, if playing with the COdA module) on that city, mark it with the event marker from P:L. This is the city that must be searched to find Patient Zero, using normal P:L rules.

Patient Zero does not have to be found to win, but if he is, then one of the "regular" diseases present in the game (player's choice) does not have to be cured.

MODULE 5: Custom Board
If you want to bring your customized board into the game to mix and match with other expansions, simply remove all infection card of fallen cities from the infection deck during setup and ignore all the stickers on the board except for roadblocks and panic levels. Depending on the state of your world, you may want to add more event cards than normal to the player deck and/or reduce the number of epidemic cards, to compensate for the restricted travel issues, or mix and match with other modules from this or other expansions designed to make the game easier.

Note: the bio-terrorist is affected by all travel restrictions, just like any other player. However, unlike when using airports, playing cards to enter/leave cities does not directly reveal his location.

MODULE 6: Upgraded City Cards
Use the P:L city cards instead of standard ones, and play them as per P:L rules.

MODULE 7: Relationships
As part of setup, use the P:L characters cards instead of or in addition to regular character cards. Ignore any traits and scar stickers the characters have, but do take advantage of relationships. When "creating" a P:L based character for the first time, create a relationship between them and another P:L character as per normal P:L rules.

When mixing P:L and non P:L characters, no duplicates are allowed (i.e. you cannot use a Medic from regular Pandemic and a Medic from P:L), and no relationships can be used for non P:L characters, as they've already been "created" before the game started.

MODULE 8: Traits & Scars
Honestly, I wouldn't use these I think because they're too crazy broken powerful and really throw everything out of whack, but I suppose you can increase the difficulty by throwing in more epidemic cards to match.

So if desired, when using P:L characters, allow them to make use of their traits, and suffer the limitations of their scars. A P:L character with any scar stickers will immediately be lost if they take another scar during play with the COdA module (see above).
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Kenyon Daniel
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My wife and I were truly inspired by your 13th month variant and already adding in our own ideas. This is just as great!
 
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Clive Jones

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Intriguing!

There are two slight tweaks I'd suggest, though.

The first is to pretend all players are military characters in the Military Bases module, rather than all having Multiple Identities. i.e. anybody can travel between Research Stations, or between Military Bases, but not from a Military Base to a Research Station or vice-versa. I have a hunch that that might be too powerful, given they excluded it from Pandemic Legacy?

The second is that it seems a bit mean in the C0Da variant for finding a cure to transform the research base into a vaccine factory. Why not add a vaccine factory leaving the research station?
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Richard Ham
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clivej wrote:
Intriguing!

There are two slight tweaks I'd suggest, though.

The first is to pretend all players are military characters in the Military Bases module, rather than all having Multiple Identities. i.e. anybody can travel between Research Stations, or between Military Bases, but not from a Military Base to a Research Station or vice-versa. I have a hunch that that might be too powerful, given they excluded it from Pandemic Legacy?
Yeah, i went back and forth on this (you can see how many edits I've made so far). you could be right that it's too powerful, but my worry is that by default military bases are a bit too weak in general to spend the time building instead of research bases. it takes several games of normal P:L to create a useful network of them, and in part the only reason you do it is because there's an ojbective about them. without that I think they're kind of weak, or at best *very* situational compared to the universal use of a research station, so I figured they needed to be bumped up a little.

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The second is that it seems a bit mean in the C0Da variant for finding a cure to transform the research base into a vaccine factory. Why not add a vaccine factory leaving the research station?
For me, it's kind of a WWMLD? situation (what would Matt Leacock do) which is why I basically copied State of Emergency. It's how he made them work for SoE, and I wanted to make these modules as much as possible a reflection of Matt Leacock design decisions, and as little as possible a "me" creation, so I simply used what he had already done elsewhere, assuming he knows best!
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I was assuming vaccine factories (in this variant) would act like research stations for travel. Is the case for the superbug module?

We've been trying virulent strain lately and enjoying it, would it work for Coda to be determined in that manner (most number of cubes on board at first epidemic) or would Coda then be too slow to spread?
 
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Clive Jones

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I was assuming they'd act like research stations for travel. But not as starting points for Civilians or as places you could find cures. Hence thinking it would be nice to keep the research station when a vaccine factory turned up.
 
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Richard Ham
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DocLeo wrote:
I was assuming vaccine factories (in this variant) would act like research stations for travel. Is the case for the superbug module?
Yup, you can shuttle between research labs and vaccine factories in both State of Emergency and Pandemic Legacy standard, so i didn't bother calling it out, since that's the way they always work

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We've been trying virulent strain lately and enjoying it, would it work for Coda to be determined in that manner (most number of cubes on board at first epidemic) or would Coda then be too slow to spread?
Well, there are no COdA virus cubes on the board (remember, the cubes of that color are functionally proxies for faded stickers), so by default, it can't turn into a virulent strain. One of the other 3 colors would become the v.strain

clivej wrote:
I was assuming they'd act like research stations for travel. But not as starting points for Civilians or as places you could find cures.
Correct, again just like how the rules work for P:L

Quote:
Hence thinking it would be nice to keep the research station when a vaccine factory turned up.
I would say the reason Matt designed it such that discovering the vaccine makes you lose a research lab immediately is specifically to make it a more interesting decision... "we can discover the vaccine now, but we'll lose our research base! Aaa, what should we do??? The superbug/COdA is under control right now, we can use quarantines to stop it's spread, so let's wait till later to make the vaccine" sort of thing
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Jeremy Lennert
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rahdo wrote:
MODULE 3: COdA
...
The cubes of this virus will now be used as "COdA cubes" to mark which cities should receive Faded figures. They do not function as normal virus cubes and are not considered for any game effects that would remove virus cubes.
...
To optionally eradicate COdA, there must be no COdA cubes on the board and no upright Faded figures.
You start with 12 COdA cubes on the board, and I didn't see a rule for removing them, so how do you ever reach a state where there are none on the board?
 
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Richard Ham
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Antistone wrote:
You start with 12 COdA cubes on the board, and I didn't see a rule for removing them, so how do you ever reach a state where there are none on the board?
since they're proxies for 'faded city' stickers, you remove them the same way you get rid of those, via inoculation. i'll try to be more clear about that.
 
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rahdo wrote:
Antistone wrote:
You start with 12 COdA cubes on the board, and I didn't see a rule for removing them, so how do you ever reach a state where there are none on the board?
since they're proxies for 'faded city' stickers, you remove them the same way you get rid of those, via inoculation. i'll try to be more clear about that.
But you don't normally remove faded city stickers in P:L. In fact, a city that is both vaccinated and faded behaves differently from a city that is vaccinated but not faded, so if you removed the faded stickers, that would change how the game plays out.

(A city that is both vaccinated and faded receives nothing when its infection card is drawn; a non-COdA-colored city that is vaccinated but not faded receives a cube of its color.)
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Antistone wrote:
But you don't normally remove faded city stickers in P:L. In fact, a city that is both vaccinated and faded behaves differently from a city that is vaccinated but not faded, so if you removed the faded stickers, that would change how the game plays out.

(A city that is both vaccinated and faded receives nothing when its infection card is drawn; a non-COdA-colored city that is vaccinated but not faded receives a cube of its color.)
Ah right! I totally forgot that persnickety bit about inoculated coda city vs inoculated non-coda city! good point, okay then i guess that means the 'faded cube' needs to stay on the board, just like the faded sticker does. A wee bit more cumbersome (yay stickers!), but necessary to adhere to the original rules, yes. will update the post, thanks!
 
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P:L and virulent strain determined the special virus by number of cubes on the board after the second epidemic (or the first for VS). Would that work in this case, or would there be too late or does it really matter?

In other words, do you find that having Coda determined by color of first infection card drawn works as well or better than how P:L did it?


 
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DocLeo wrote:
P:L and virulent strain determined the special virus by number of cubes on the board after the second epidemic (or the first for VS). Would that work in this case, or would there be too late or does it really matter?

In other words, do you find that having Coda determined by color of first infection card drawn works as well or better than how P:L did it?
Basically I was trying to create something that mimics a "standard P:L month" like september, one where you're dealing with coda and trying to rescue some lost person. Those months start out with faded guys already active and a side quest clearly established. This is why i went with "first card drawn defines coda".

But I almost said "draw the to card of the infection deck to determine which color CODA is this game, and then shuffle it back in. place that color cube on every city of that color to mark them as faded. then begin infecting cities". the more i think about it, that's probably better, and truer to P:L, so I think i'll change that!

i had the game start out with every city of one color already faded because it mimics the end game sequence of trying to cure them all, which is a big part of the end game i wanted to capture. also, since the biggest new element to Pandemic in P:L is multiple optional objectives, i wanted to capture that as well by making coda eradication & patient zero finding optional, but if you do, it means you have to do one less virus. not a perfect recreation, but i think it captures the spirit of P:L design
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I like the random draw then replace, then infect. That sounds good.

Can cures be discovered at vaccine factories in either super bug or this variant? I don't have the rules on-hand.

 
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DocLeo wrote:
I like the random draw then replace, then infect. That sounds good.

Can cures be discovered at vaccine factories in either super bug or this variant? I don't have the rules on-hand.

Nope, no cures - in both P:L and SoE, factories create a new dose automatically every turn, and you can shuttle between them and labs, and that's it
 
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If you wanted to avoid the "reshuffle" step, you could compromise and have COdA be the first color you draw, but change the order of draws so that you draw the 1-cube cities first and the 3-cube cities last. That still increases the minimum and average number of Faded that start on the board, but much less than the original version.

Either way, you might want to consider changing the rules for how you determine City Zero.
 
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Antistone wrote:
If you wanted to avoid the "reshuffle" step, you could compromise and have COdA be the first color you draw, but change the order of draws so that you draw the 1-cube cities first and the 3-cube cities last. That still increases the minimum and average number of Faded that start on the board, but much less than the original version.
Yeah, but i'm not to worried about the reshuffle step... i would just take the deck, draw a card randomly from it, put it back in, and then start shuffling

Quote:
Either way, you might want to consider changing the rules for how you determine City Zero.
Nah, I like it this way. the design of P:L tries to put them in tough to deal with spots, so this is the closest nature way to emulate that, but putting it in one of the 3 hottest spots on the planet. Plus I like thematically that the very first city infected on the board is where you'll find patient zero
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But City Zero might not even be a faded city; if you determine the COdA color separately, there is no guarantee that the first infected city is anywhere near it.
 
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Antistone wrote:
But City Zero might not even be a faded city; if you determine the COdA color separately, there is no guarantee that the first infected city is anywhere near it.
Yup, true... normally patient zero is tied to the COdA color, but with this approach, the story would I guess be that is the patient zero of ALL the viruses, not just COdA, since it's literally the first virus on the board (whatever it might be), which is why finding him gives you a reward of "pick one of the regular viruses - you don't have to cure it to win" (and chances are you'll pick the color of the city PZ was in, because you had to throw away a bunch of that city cards of that color).

Plus, I wanted to ensure PZ works as a stand alone module even if you're not playing with the COdA module, and it struck me it's best to be consistent instead of "if combined with COdA module, do X to determine PZ location, otherwise do Y" sorts of stuff.

Also, in regular P:L there's no guarantee that a faded will ever appear on the city were PZ is, so this seems reasonable for that reason as well, that its very unpredictable where PZ will appear. Plus TBH I always like more variability. 75% of the time, PZ will be in a non-coda zone - not as scary for scars, but definitely scary if you go for him and fail to find him and burn through most of the city cards you'll need for the cure. OTOH, when he does show up in coda-ville that 25% of the time, tossing the "useless" coda city cards is more attractive, but it's more dangerous because you're going to run the risk of scars there...
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rahdo wrote:

MODULE 4: Patient Zero
During setup, when the first infection card is drawn, before placing cubes (or Faded, if playing with the COdA module) on that city, mark it with the event marker from P:L. This is the city that must be searched to find Patient Zero, using normal P:L rules.

Patient Zero does not have to be found to win, but if he is, then one of the "regular" diseases present in the game (player's choice) does not have to be cured.
Hi Rahdo! Thanks for all these ideas on how to play Pandemic Legacy as an expansion!
We've tried Patient Zero tonight, and would like to add some suggestions. I suppose the search target marker should increase every time you draw an epidemic. However, this makes this goal pretty hard to beat, and once you've had 4 epidemics, it's game over no matter what. We will try this again, but with either the Archivist role (picks up city card of the city he's in from the discard) or the event that lets you do the same thing (and then probably combined with the Contingency planner who lets you reuse events). Or combine this with Module 6, the updated city card deck, and playing with equipment rules and the soldier character who lets you pick up equipment cards from the discard.


 
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Anny48 wrote:
rahdo wrote:

MODULE 4: Patient Zero
During setup, when the first infection card is drawn, before placing cubes (or Faded, if playing with the COdA module) on that city, mark it with the event marker from P:L. This is the city that must be searched to find Patient Zero, using normal P:L rules.

Patient Zero does not have to be found to win, but if he is, then one of the "regular" diseases present in the game (player's choice) does not have to be cured.
Hi Rahdo! Thanks for all these ideas on how to play Pandemic Legacy as an expansion!
We've tried Patient Zero tonight, and would like to add some suggestions. I suppose the search target marker should increase every time you draw an epidemic. However, this makes this goal pretty hard to beat, and once you've had 4 epidemics, it's game over no matter what. We will try this again, but with either the Archivist role (picks up city card of the city he's in from the discard) or the event that lets you do the same thing (and then probably combined with the Contingency planner who lets you reuse events). Or combine this with Module 6, the updated city card deck, and playing with equipment rules and the soldier character who lets you pick up equipment cards from the discard.
Note that you don't need to find Patient Zero in order to win - you only need to achieve 4 out of 5 goals (cure blue, cure yellow, cure black, cure red, find patient zero) - so you can still win after the 4th epidemic makes the search impossible.
 
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rmsgrey wrote:
Anny48 wrote:
rahdo wrote:

MODULE 4: Patient Zero
During setup, when the first infection card is drawn, before placing cubes (or Faded, if playing with the COdA module) on that city, mark it with the event marker from P:L. This is the city that must be searched to find Patient Zero, using normal P:L rules.

Patient Zero does not have to be found to win, but if he is, then one of the "regular" diseases present in the game (player's choice) does not have to be cured.
Hi Rahdo! Thanks for all these ideas on how to play Pandemic Legacy as an expansion!
We've tried Patient Zero tonight, and would like to add some suggestions. I suppose the search target marker should increase every time you draw an epidemic. However, this makes this goal pretty hard to beat, and once you've had 4 epidemics, it's game over no matter what. We will try this again, but with either the Archivist role (picks up city card of the city he's in from the discard) or the event that lets you do the same thing (and then probably combined with the Contingency planner who lets you reuse events). Or combine this with Module 6, the updated city card deck, and playing with equipment rules and the soldier character who lets you pick up equipment cards from the discard.
Note that you don't need to find Patient Zero in order to win - you only need to achieve 4 out of 5 goals (cure blue, cure yellow, cure black, cure red, find patient zero) - so you can still win after the 4th epidemic makes the search impossible.
Yup, that was the thinking... my fave addition to Pandemic that Legacy adds is the notion of optional objectives, so that's what i was trying capture here
 
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Rob van Dalen
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rahdo wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:
Note that you don't need to find Patient Zero in order to win - you only need to achieve 4 out of 5 goals (cure blue, cure yellow, cure black, cure red, find patient zero) - so you can still win after the 4th epidemic makes the search impossible.
Yup, that was the thinking... my fave addition to Pandemic that Legacy adds is the notion of optional objectives, so that's what i was trying capture here
The point is that when dedicating yourself to finding patient zero, there's no way back. Either you find him, or you just lost nearly all cards of a single colour, losing you the game. This means that you can either take that gamble, which barely gives you any advantage but a lot of risk, or just play regular Pandemic (which is a bit boring as an 'expansion').
That's why some additional supporting Roles / Events are necessary to keep it playable.

It worked so well in Legacy because you had a 'leftover' colour (COdA) that you didn't need to find any of the cures, and because it was optional.

The idea of optional goals in regular Pandemic is very nice, but it just doesn't work that well if you play it this way.
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Sorry Rob0, I totally missed this post! Oops!

Rob0Rider wrote:
rahdo wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:
Note that you don't need to find Patient Zero in order to win - you only need to achieve 4 out of 5 goals (cure blue, cure yellow, cure black, cure red, find patient zero) - so you can still win after the 4th epidemic makes the search impossible.
Yup, that was the thinking... my fave addition to Pandemic that Legacy adds is the notion of optional objectives, so that's what i was trying capture here
The point is that when dedicating yourself to finding patient zero, there's no way back. Either you find him, or you just lost nearly all cards of a single colour, losing you the game.
You face that same dilemma in P:L. If you make a big push to finish a search as one of the objectives you'll try to complete, and you fail, you've burned time and resources that you can't get back and now you're in trouble. Same is true here. I agree that it's more of a "point of no return" decision here, but I don't think that's a bad thing because in real P:L, even if a decision like this isn't that impactful in a given session ("hmm, we can go with A or B... lets go with A but keep our options open in case we need to shift"), it is impactful over the course of the campaign ("wow, choosing A really screwed up the planet!"). Here, since there is no campaign, it seems reasonable that it's more impactful for the game you're currently playing.

And TBH, I think you can decide to go for PZ early, and if it quickly becomes obvious that it's not working out (epidemics come out super fast, for instance), still pivot to the 4th cure. You only need to get 5 cards to find a cure, so you can afford to burn probably 4 or 5 additional ones to try for PZ and still recover if it goes south. But the going will be tough, no doubt.

Quote:
This means that you can either take that gamble, which barely gives you any advantage but a lot of risk, or just play regular Pandemic (which is a bit boring as an 'expansion').
It comes down to "what is our situation when we decide to cure red, or find patient zero (which is in a red city)?". Either way, we're going to have to collect and burn through red cards. If we choose A, then likely B is off the table, and vice versa. Which do we think we can achieve more readily with the team we've got and the situation on the board. If we're good at sharing knowledge, maybe going for the red cure is likely the better option based on our strengths. OTOH, if there aren't a lot of red infected cities, maybe we should go for PZ, because curing red won't benefit us as much for easy cleanup. Does someone have the actual city card where PZ is? That makes it pretty tempting to search...

Either way, it's a decision we have to make pretty quick, and the game could be won or lost based on that decision. And those are, IMO, fun decisions to make. That's my thinking anyway

Quote:
That's why some additional supporting Roles / Events are necessary to keep it playable.
Yup, like I said, the choice can't be an aritrary coin toss. You have to consider the situation on and around the board and make the best decision you can.

Quote:
It worked so well in Legacy because you had a 'leftover' colour (COdA) that you didn't need to find any of the cures, and because it was optional.
It's optional here, and if you go for it and succeed, you've got one less cure you need to find, same as P:L.

Quote:
The idea of optional goals in regular Pandemic is very nice, but it just doesn't work that well if you play it this way.
We tried it a couple of times, and it did work just fine. Granted, that's anectodal, and maybe we got lucky, but at this point I'm fairly pleased with it.

TBH though, I'm still not that keen on the "military base module" though. In our experience, roadblocks just aren't worth the trouble. It feels like bases do need a bit more "oomph" to be worth building, and of course they had that oomph in P:L because there was a whole objective about building them. So I was thinking about adding the following to the original post:

"If players manage to build 1 military base in each of the 6 regions of the world (North America, South America, Europe, Africa, Asia and the Pacific Rim, as defined by the P:L board), then one of the "regular" diseases present in the game (player's choice) does not have to be cured."

But this means I think that travel between military and civilian buildings would have to be not allowed (except for P:L special character abilities). So any player can shuttle between military bases, or between research station/vaccine factories, but no mixing between the transport networks.

So again, you're deciding right up front: are we going to spend time building all these bases which have some functionality but don't help us cure anything.

I think this sounds pretty reasonable... thoughts? Maybe also add "travel between two military bases requires discarding any one card, unless you're a military character (as defined by P:L)"?
 
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I'm not sold on having to build 6 structures during a single game - it seems a pretty big ask, even to skip a cure.
 
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