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Michael Noakes
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I'm a little bemused sometimes by the nostalgic love for MOO--well, for MOO2. (Such a sad failure, MOO3 was--but with such potential!)

I played a lot of MOO2, but thinking back, was it really that great a game? Perhaps part of the joy was knowing victory was inevitable. The AI was barely competent, and though tactical combat sounds fun, it didn't take long before it was set to auto.

GalCiv II/III, Space Empires, Endless Space (though I don't like it much)--it just seems as though the genre has moved on quite a bit since MOO, yet people keep harkening back to it as some gold standard for the 4x genre...

-M.

PS. Though I think the definitive space 4x digital game is still waiting to be made...
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Tahsin Shamma
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This is starting to sounds like Through the Ages in Space.
 
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Jim Parkin
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Weloi Avala wrote:
I'm a little bemused sometimes by the nostalgic love for MOO--well, for MOO2. (Such a sad failure, MOO3 was--but with such potential!)

I played a lot of MOO2, but thinking back, was it really that great a game? Perhaps part of the joy was knowing victory was inevitable. The AI was barely competent, and though tactical combat sounds fun, it didn't take long before it was set to auto.

GalCiv II/III, Space Empires, Endless Space (though I don't like it much)--it just seems as though the genre has moved on quite a bit since MOO, yet people keep harkening back to it as some gold standard for the 4x genre...

-M.

PS. Though I think the definitive space 4x digital game is still waiting to be made...


MOO3 did, unfortunately, suck. You're right about the squandered potential... at least the lore was good.

MOO2 was too easy.

MOO is still perfect.
 
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Marcel van der pol
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Well, the original Master of Orion was one of the defining SciFi 4x games in the DOS era (both MoO and MoO2). There have been more attemps to create the "defining" SciFi 4x game but somehow MoO still is one of the best out there despite its age.

One the main lacking points was a poor AI, although I haven't seen any games that featured an AI that offered a "challenge" in terms of the AI being very smart. Most AI's at higher difficulty simply "cheated" in that resource costs (time, money etc) for everything was hugely reduced instead of the AI playing "smarter".
 
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Keith Medlin
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Weloi Avala wrote:

PS. Though I think the definitive space 4x digital game is still waiting to be made...


Soon... http://store.steampowered.com/app/281990/

Keep an eye out for it...
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Michael Noakes
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marcelvdpol wrote:
Well, the original Master of Orion was one of the defining SciFi 4x games in the DOS era (both MoO and MoO2). There have been more attemps to create the "defining" SciFi 4x game but somehow MoO still is one of the best out there despite its age.

One the main lacking points was a poor AI, although I haven't seen any games that featured an AI that offered a "challenge" in terms of the AI being very smart. Most AI's at higher difficulty simply "cheated" in that resource costs (time, money etc) for everything was hugely reduced instead of the AI playing "smarter".


GalCiv2. Absolutely fantastic AI, even when it wasn't cheating. Best I've seen at playing "like a player," with personality differentiated according to race. It would often turn out that, when the AI seemed to be playing abysmally, that it was actually being hammered by opponents beyond the player's view. Great game, despite the disappointing rock-paper-scissor battles.

GC3... isn't quite there yet, but seems to be getting better post-launch.
 
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Michael Noakes
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gamesontables wrote:
Weloi Avala wrote:

PS. Though I think the definitive space 4x digital game is still waiting to be made...


Soon... http://store.steampowered.com/app/281990/

Keep an eye out for it...


Holy crap! How'd I miss that? That looks awesome. Thanks for the heads up.
 
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Mark Iradian
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KillerPower wrote:
Wow... I'm really interested!
I hope, this will be better than MoO3....


We do not speak of that here...

EDIT: To be honest, I would be very surprised if the new reboot is good. Considering that barely anyone from the original development team is on it, I would be surprised if they can "capture" the original.

And I'm one of the few people that loved MOO1 over MOO2. Love those sliders.
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Nathan McCullough
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Weloi Avala wrote:
gamesontables wrote:
Weloi Avala wrote:

PS. Though I think the definitive space 4x digital game is still waiting to be made...


Soon... http://store.steampowered.com/app/281990/

Keep an eye out for it...


Holy crap! How'd I miss that? That looks awesome. Thanks for the heads up.



Yep, it's definitely up there on the list for me - if it's ANYTHING remotely close to all the dev diarys, it will be the reigning champion for a long time to come. The Mod support by itself will allow this game to be propelled into awesomeness. Can't wait to see expansions etc for it, also, if they keep supporting it like they do CK2 I'll be playing this game for years.
 
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Ryan Dalton
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Excited for MoO: the Board Game. Judging based on the picture shown, it looks to be a card game with resource management similar to Through the Ages but much lighter (if it is going to adhere to the proposed player
time).

Also extremely excited for Stellaris. For those who haven't done so, check out Paradox's developer diaries for the game. They are taking Space 4X in a fantastic direction that will focus on exploration and story-building.

Any Space 4X is a plus in my book, card game/computer game or not.
 
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Arseniy Belik
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keighleyrob wrote:
I've heard rumours it's going to be a card game.
Similar to race for the galaxy.


I've seen people playing prototype. This will definitely be a card game, but it's closer to New Era / Imperial Settlers, than RftG, i suppose.

This game should have another name and description as it's a game in MoO universe, not a board version of videogame.
 
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David Umstattd
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magicbus1966 wrote:
I though they already made this and called it "Twilight Imperium 3."


FTFY
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Anders Olin
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gamesontables wrote:
Weloi Avala wrote:

PS. Though I think the definitive space 4x digital game is still waiting to be made...


Soon... http://store.steampowered.com/app/281990/

Keep an eye out for it...


NOOOOOOOOO! *sees hours of time being invested in this* (scream was from my wife) ninja
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David Huet
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We used to have a saying around these parts:

The only good Darlok, is a dead Darlok.
 
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Mike P
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Let's just hope they don't base it off Master of Orion 3.
 
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Eric Pietrocupo
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I was rapidly posting a message on BGG while I saw at the top of the hot list "Master of Orion Board game". Did not pay much attention to it until my subcouncious sound the alarm ring ... wake up you idiot.

Wait a minute, am I dreaming ... a real commercial project of master of Orion finally comming as a board game after what ... more than 10 years of waiting and search for trying to find a replacement with Twilight Imperium and Eclipse which meserably failled to meet my expectations.

I don't want to put some pressure on the designer, but that has to be good. If you can catch the feeling and epicness of MOO in a board game, I'll be very happy to play and possibly buy it. I doubt it's possible, but I always have hope.
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Maxim Kalenkov
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nickgb wrote:
I have no idea what "Golf Scoring" means, something goofy in the translation there.

"Golf scoring" is just scoring board + google translate AI.
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Eric Pietrocupo
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Master of Orion and Master of Magic were not perfect games, they were good game. But more importantly they had a certain kind of vision that gave you a feeling that no other game up to date has successfully replaced.

In MOO you had plenty of cool tech with unique features while in MOM you have very powerful interesting spells that you could use. While many of them looked cool on paper but were not really efficient, some were very powerful.

I think that is why those games are awesome, it's the possibilities, uniqueness and power abuse that they had to offer. A new beam weapon was not simply a next level beam weapon, it was also unique and had a personality. This is something you do not see in newer games.

Even I have an hard time trying to identify it's essence in order to reproduce the effect. I can only hope that the New MOO game will be great because they hired a part of the original team.
 
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Eric Pietrocupo
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As for Stellaris, it looks interesting, but if it's realtime like many of paradox's games I am out.

There was also this game which I think got kickstarted.

http://www.morethegame.com/

Looks interesting too.
 
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Philip Morton
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larienna wrote:
Master of Orion and Master of Magic were not perfect games, they were good game. But more importantly they had a certain kind of vision that gave you a feeling that no other game up to date has successfully replaced.

In MOO you had plenty of cool tech with unique features while in MOM you have very powerful interesting spells that you could use. While many of them looked cool on paper but were not really efficient, some were very powerful.

I can't understand why there isn't a Master of Magic-clone board game yet. Adding spells to one of the many existing civilization-style games sounds much easier than introducing ship blueprints (to name the space-4X feature I always look for) to a space game; Eclipse and Space Empires 4X both managed it, but to my untrained eye it looks like...supporting that feature caused a larger distortion to their designs than "replace the tech tree with spells" would have on Civilization. Maybe I'm underestimating how hard a spell system would be to integrate...
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Eric Pietrocupo
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Not sure I can explain it correctly, but I am talking out of my 10 years of experience of failures to make a MOM board game. Project pages here:

http://bgd.lariennalibrary.com/index.php?n=GameIdea.GameIdea...

http://bgd.lariennalibrary.com/index.php?n=GameIdea.GameIdea...

The reason why civ games or sci fi civ game works is because technologies are permanent effect rule changers. It allow many possibilities since many rules can be altered or broken in a game. They generally add tons of basic restrictions that later can be broken by a tech.

While in master of magics, spells are mainly temporary status changer. Now due to component restrictions in board games, there are new status to change compared to a video game, so the possibilities of spells is much more limited. Second, not all cities and units are affected by the spell, which makes it harder to keep track. MOM is a game with a huge variety of spells which propose various gameplay each time you play. You need to have a large area of effects and abilities to make sure each spell is unique.

The worst part is the resource management of the mana when you combine spells with local effects and those with global effects. The problem is you cannot as in the video game take an enchantment cost and multiply it by the number of cities you have. The math would be too complex. But if an enchantment has a fixed cost for your whole empire, then spells that are cast for each battle are much more expensive. One idea was the pay on demand, so for example, all cities have an enchantment, but you must pay to benefit the effect each time you need to use it. So if the same city gets attacked 3 times, you need to pay 3 times to get the benefits like you would do for any other instant spell.

It becomes even more complex when managing offensive enchantments like pestilence. Pay on demand is not so bad, but lat say you pay a fixed cost. Do you pay the same price if you target only 1 player rather than targetting all players. How do you keep track of which player's get affected? Activate on demand could be an idea.

The only possible solution I have found is to convert all spells as permanent rule changing enchantment to make them behave as technology. As for offensive spells, they could add a restriction on your demand to other players. The main difference with tech is that only a subset of the spells available will be active at the same time (since they must be maintained) Which could be a good thing because you are less likely to forget effects and focus on the abilities you need.

Does it effect the theme, does it keep the feeling of Master of Magic? I think it greatly affects it, not sure if it will be as enjoyable, or generate the same feeling. What do you think?

Else I would be looking for something more local where you try to take over only a kingdom. You are a wizard or sith lord trying to control the empire. I have an idea for an adventure deck building game, but I still have a problem on how I could make spells fit thematically in the game.

So yes, implementing MOM is really problematic and it needs a video game to keep track of large amount of information that could be affected by spells.

There are tons of other details I have not talked about like how do you manage 10 races which each have 5-8 different units + 5 sphere of magic with 5-8 different creatures for a total of 75-120 UNIQUE units.


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