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Subject: KS is Live!!!! rss

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Francois
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Here's the lowdown on climate and flight from the designers in another thread:

/article/21727862#21727862

Edit: I would back in a flash but $20us to ship to Canada is insane!
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David J
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Thud105 wrote:
mrroza wrote:
It is my understanding that the standalone option includes the base game as well as everything you need for the Climate Expansion.

Not sure if I’m reading this right or not, but to clarify: the Stand-alone game is just that – it is Stand-Alone. Everything needed to play is included. It’s not the Base Game plus the expansion. There will be some similarities and carry-overs from the Base Game, but Climate will be fully self-contained.

I am reading it slightly differently; I think the Climate "base game" "standalone" is essentially the Evolution 2nd ed. "base game" plus the Climate expansion, packaged in one box with Climate art. Although this might be splitting hairs. I would appreciate clarification from NS on this point.

Thud105 wrote:
Magic Pink wrote:
So there's Evolution, Evolution Flight, Evolution Second Edition and Evolution Climate?

Kind of. Yes, there’s Evolution (1st edition), but that is now defunct, having been replaced by Second Edition. Climate is going to be a stand-alone game using the Evolution game engine.

Agree.

Thud105 wrote:
Magic Pink wrote:
And Flight only works with Evolution 1st Edition and not with Climate?

Partially true. Where you’re mistaken is that while Flight can work with 1st Edition, it is better suited for (made for) 2nd Edition. Again, Climate will be a stand-alone game.

Agree, I think. NS has been pretty clear that Flight does not work with Climate (and I fully understand and agree with the reasoning; I'm not complaining). But this is why I am interpreting "Climate standalone" as "Evolution 2nd. ed. standalone base game + Climate expansion". The basic idea is that you should only use one expansion at a time with the base game. Thus I presume that if you buy "Climate base game standalone" and Flight expansion, you must have to "remove" the "Climate expansion" from the true base game before you can add Flight into it.

If I'm right about this, then I don't understand why they are calling Climate a base game, however. It's the Climate "standalone" is really a base game + an expansion in one box.

Edit: Just realized that NS is using "base game" and "standalone" non-synonymously, and I edited this post to reflect how they are using the words!
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David Vanden Heuvel
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Warwolf42 wrote:
Here's the lowdown on climate and flight from the designers in another thread:

/article/21727862#21727862

Edit: I would back in a flash but $20us to ship to Canada is insane!

They allow for up to 3copies per pledge. That might help with the shipping cost (assuming it isn't more expensive to ship the additional copies)
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David J
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Warwolf42 wrote:
Here's the lowdown on climate and flight from the designers in another thread:

/article/21727862#21727862


To summarize: this is where they say that Climate (presumably both the expansion and the standalone) and Flight aren't designed to be used together. It doesn't address the question in my previous post of how you use the Climate standalone to create a base game to which you can add Flight. This seems to be the basic question that people are wondering if they don't already have the base game and wondering if they should buy the Climate standalone. NS says yes, but it's unclear how this will actually work if you try to add Flight to the base game contained within the Climate standalone product.
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MC Crispy
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Trinket Magpie wrote:
mccrispy wrote:
I just checked the KS for "Flight" and that shipped from inside the EU, so I expect that they'll use the same distribution system. Actually, looking at EU shipping costs, it looks as though they are probably shipping from a UK distribution centre.


They specifically say that they have switched to a single worldwide distributor; this is different from last time. This is an attempt to reduce/eliminate delays and lost/damaged product to non-US locations. Granted, this is stated very far down on the page, and the page is apparently evolving (ahem) this morning as we speak. But this also may explain the higher cost of shipping to some locations.

I am 99% sure I will back; I participated last time and had excellent results.
Well you would have: you're based in US!

Last time around I managed some careful finagling around buying a locally sourced 1st Ed and a KS Flight with the 2nd Ed upgrade pack for a price cheaper than 2nd Ed + Flight + Shipping. This time around I'll just go for a Climate upgrade pack, looks to be a reasonable deal, probably not as good as retail will be (ignoring promos/exclusives), but slightly earlier perhaps.
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Phil Guest
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Trinket Magpie wrote:
Thud105 wrote:
mrroza wrote:
It is my understanding that the standalone option includes the base game as well as everything you need for the Climate Expansion.

Not sure if I’m reading this right or not, but to clarify: the Stand-alone game is just that – it is Stand-Alone. Everything needed to play is included. It’s not the Base Game plus the expansion. There will be some similarities and carry-overs from the Base Game, but Climate will be fully self-contained.

I am reading it slightly differently; I think the Climate "base game" "standalone" is essentially the Evolution 2nd ed. "base game" plus the Climate expansion, packaged in one box with Climate art. Although this might be splitting hairs. I would appreciate clarification from NS on this point.

Yes this. In the text on $55 pledge (pitcured towards the bottom of the page) it says ... ' A stand-alone game that contains everything you need to play both Evolution and Evolution: Climate'.

To me this reads that you have everything in the box to play either vanilla Evolution or Evolution: Climate.
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Francois
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If you read the thread I linked the designer states some cards are printed with extra text and icons for Climate. When playing vanilla or flight you simply ignore these.

/article/21733863#21733863
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David Tolin
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Trinket Magpie wrote:
Warwolf42 wrote:
Here's the lowdown on climate and flight from the designers in another thread:

/article/21727862#21727862


To summarize: this is where they say that Climate (presumably both the expansion and the standalone) and Flight aren't designed to be used together. It doesn't address the question in my previous post of how you use the Climate standalone to create a base game to which you can add Flight. This seems to be the basic question that people are wondering if they don't already have the base game and wondering if they should buy the Climate standalone. NS says yes, but it's unclear how this will actually work if you try to add Flight to the base game contained within the Climate standalone product.


He answers that question on page 2 of the thread:

Quote:
[If you buy Climate standalone + Flight,] You will have everything you need to play Evolution, Flight, or Climate, but when you play Evolution or Flight you will have 38 cards with some irrelevant icons or text.
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Katherine B
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I own the base game and Flight. Thinking I'll pick up the full game of Climate just so I don't have to go through picking out the base game cards every time I have to change "modes".

...But that $20 shipping to Canada... I'll have to see if KS exclusives really make it worth it or I'll just wait for retail.
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Brandon Holmes
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DipteraDreams wrote:
I own the base game and Flight. Thinking I'll pick up the full game of Climate just so I don't have to go through picking out the base game cards every time I have to change "modes".

...But that $20 shipping to Canada... I'll have to see if KS exclusives really make it worth it or I'll just wait for retail.


Hmm never thought of that. Depending on the price difference at retail I may buy the full Climate set as well.
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David A
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DipteraDreams wrote:
I own the base game and Flight. Thinking I'll pick up the full game of Climate just so I don't have to go through picking out the base game cards every time I have to change "modes".

This was my thought process as well.
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Felix Munoz
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This in effect becomes Evolution 3rd edition, IMHO. I am getting tired of this... I am not even sure now if the Kickstarter exclusives from the 2nd edition will work on the new "Climate" edition. Ugh... And when they introduce Aquatic and Continents, are they going to redo all the base cards again? (Sorry, frustration growing) shake
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Joey Nazzari
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These expansions are more like stand alone modules

Evolution Base
Or
Evolution Base + Flight
Or
Evolution Base + Climate

We really enjoy evolution, and I understand why they are doing it. However I have to say it's a bit disappointing they don't mix together.
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MC Crispy
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I'm glad that Flight and Climate don't mix. First, it's incredibly difficult to maintain the original balance of the game when you add new mechanisms to the game and "power creep" can become a feature. Second, I don't think the game would be improved by having both in the mix. It would make to much game for what the game is - a light medium tactical game. Adding too much more would bog it down and some of that aspect would be lost, to the detriment of gaming fun IMO. I'm going to assume that the designers tested it with and without Flight.
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David A
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mccrispy wrote:
I'm glad that Flight and Climate don't mix. First, it's incredibly difficult to maintain the original balance of the game when you add new mechanisms to the game and "power creep" can become a feature. Second, I don't think the game would be improved by having both in the mix. It would make to much game for what the game is - a light medium tactical game. Adding too much more would bog it down and some of that aspect would be lost, to the detriment of gaming fun IMO. I'm going to assume that the designers tested it with and without Flight.

Not only that, by designing it so that each one doesn't mix with everything else, they're preventing both "Deck Bloat" as well as the related and subsequent dilution of many of the key traits in the deck. With everything getting mixed together, things would be more Hodge-Podge and less strategic; more luck of the draw and less thought-out.
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Katherine B
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DipteraDreams wrote:
I own the base game and Flight. Thinking I'll pick up the full game of Climate just so I don't have to go through picking out the base game cards every time I have to change "modes".


Replying to myself... reading KS comments seems like it's a better deal to get the conversion kit box and the $6 'card upgrade' package in order to get a full game set of cards, since I won't need another set of species boards/bags etc (though the extra food would be nice, we run out sometimes).

Unless the bags in the Climate box have new art... whistle
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It SHOULD mix altogether... Or the future expansions will need conversions too? Buying the base game over and over is not my kind of game system... Anyway, this "version" looks way more thematic than flight if you compare both. I´m thinking of selling my second edition and flight bundle to this one.
 
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Fernando Robert Yu
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I hope the Climate converter pack has icons on the cards which clearly shows it comes from that expansion so that it makes things easier to sort afterwards.
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Lior A
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Is it safe to assume the game will cost around 40$ at retail?
 
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John Galietta III
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freddieyu wrote:
I hope the Climate converter pack has icons on the cards which clearly shows it comes from that expansion so that it makes things easier to sort afterwards.


So far in the playtest ALL of the new cards in climate have the climate icons on them that move the climate track, so they should be easily distinguishable.
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David J
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DavidT wrote:
Trinket Magpie wrote:
Warwolf42 wrote:
Here's the lowdown on climate and flight from the designers in another thread:

/article/21727862#21727862


To summarize: this is where they say that Climate (presumably both the expansion and the standalone) and Flight aren't designed to be used together. It doesn't address the question in my previous post of how you use the Climate standalone to create a base game to which you can add Flight. This seems to be the basic question that people are wondering if they don't already have the base game and wondering if they should buy the Climate standalone. NS says yes, but it's unclear how this will actually work if you try to add Flight to the base game contained within the Climate standalone product.


He answers that question on page 2 of the thread:

Quote:
[If you buy Climate standalone + Flight,] You will have everything you need to play Evolution, Flight, or Climate, but when you play Evolution or Flight you will have 38 cards with some irrelevant icons or text.


Thanks, this is way more useful than just a link to a 3-page thread. Yah, I figured as much, but wanted more specifics, so I started a thread on this actual question and Dom answered the question same day. Here it is.
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1522023/climate-trait-cards

And all of the other questions in this page of *this thread* about swapping out cards are answered in that one too. (You don't have to swap out the Climate versions of the cards... which is basically what DavidT is saying.)
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Jonas Emmett
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DipteraDreams wrote:
...But that $20 shipping to Canada... I'll have to see if KS exclusives really make it worth it or I'll just wait for retail.

I'll be watching the stretch goals too, to see if they justify US$20/how long until my willpower crumbles.

I don't foresee ever wanting to play Evolution without Climate, but I hadn't considered getting the standalone game instead of the expansion (and then trading/selling the base game). Decision, decisions...
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Dominic Crapuchettes
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Warwolf42 wrote:
Here's the lowdown on climate and flight from the designers in another thread:

/article/21727862#21727862

Edit: I would back in a flash but $20us to ship to Canada is insane!

Our actual costs have always been over $30 to ship a copy of Evolution to Canada. It seems insane but that's the actual costs. I'm not sure why.

We're hoping an established shipping company can get a better rates so we're meeting with IdeasSpatcher (the fulfillment company we're using) today to discuss. Wish us luck!
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Scott Wheelock
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domcrap wrote:
Our actual costs have always been over $30 to ship a copy of Evolution to Canada. It seems insane but that's the actual costs. I'm not sure why.

We're hoping an established shipping company can get a better rates so we're meeting with IdeasSpatcher (the fulfillment company we're using) today to discuss. Wish us luck!


Shipping within Canada (using Canada Post) is ridiculous. Online retailers usually offer flat rates of $12-15 within the country, but I imagine that that's somewhat subsidized. Shipping to and from other countries has always been worse, of course, so I'm not counting on you finding much savings, although it's great that you're trying.
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Dominic Crapuchettes
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TabletopAdept wrote:
This in effect becomes Evolution 3rd edition, IMHO. I am getting tired of this... I am not even sure now if the Kickstarter exclusives from the 2nd edition will work on the new "Climate" edition. Ugh... And when they introduce Aquatic and Continents, are they going to redo all the base cards again? (Sorry, frustration growing) shake


?!! Can you explain yourself? How is this 3rd edition?

I think the language Nick used on the Kickstarter is a bit confusing. Just to be clear, everything we have ever released since is compatible with 1st edition Evolution. But mixing all of the cards together willy nilly will not give you a good game experience.
 
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