Recommend
26 
 Thumb up
 Hide
64 Posts
Prev «  1 , 2 , 3  | 

Evolution: Climate» Forums » News

Subject: KS is Live!!!! rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Dominic Crapuchettes
United States
Bethesda
MD
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
North Star Games designs party games that don't suck! Play them with your non-gamer friends over the holidays.
badge
First there was Hearts, then there was Spades, and now we bring you Clubs. The suit of clubs finally gets some respect!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DipteraDreams wrote:
DipteraDreams wrote:
I own the base game and Flight. Thinking I'll pick up the full game of Climate just so I don't have to go through picking out the base game cards every time I have to change "modes".


Replying to myself... reading KS comments seems like it's a better deal to get the conversion kit box and the $6 'card upgrade' package in order to get a full game set of cards, since I won't need another set of species boards/bags etc (though the extra food would be nice, we run out sometimes).

Unless the bags in the Climate box have new art... whistle




We decided against this because we don't want people to feel like we're pushing them into repurchasing the same game.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mr Punter
Canada
Calgary
Alberta
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
domcrap wrote:
Warwolf42 wrote:
Here's the lowdown on climate and flight from the designers in another thread:

/article/21727862#21727862

Edit: I would back in a flash but $20us to ship to Canada is insane!

Our actual costs have always been over $30 to ship a copy of Evolution to Canada. It seems insane but that's the actual costs. I'm not sure why.

We're hoping an established shipping company can get a better rates so we're meeting with IdeasSpatcher (the fulfillment company we're using) today to discuss. Wish us luck!


Good luck!

I'd like to support Northstar and get in on this Kickstarter, but nearly $65CAD delivered is too steep for sure. I'd predict around $30-40CAD at retail and so as much as it pains me I'll be patient for Climate.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mr Punter
Canada
Calgary
Alberta
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
domcrap wrote:
TabletopAdept wrote:
This in effect becomes Evolution 3rd edition, IMHO. I am getting tired of this... I am not even sure now if the Kickstarter exclusives from the 2nd edition will work on the new "Climate" edition. Ugh... And when they introduce Aquatic and Continents, are they going to redo all the base cards again? (Sorry, frustration growing) shake


?!! Can you explain yourself? How is this 3rd edition?

I think the language Nick used on the Kickstarter is a bit confusing. Just to be clear, everything we have ever released since is compatible with 1st edition Evolution. But mixing all of the cards together willy nilly will not give you a good game experience.


I'd agree on it being confusing - the word "compatible" isn't really correct. All the cards work together and can be interchanged as you see fit.

I did read Dom making some good comments somewhere about why they didn't "recommend" playing the 2 expansions together. Bloated game play, cards being spread too thin etc. Maybe that should be how the questions in the FAQ should be phrased:

Q- Can I play Evolution: Climate with Evolution: Flight?
A- Sure, but we wouldn't recommend it. While the cards all work together the game experience is much less than ideal and there are a lot of balance issues. We'd love to hear how you make out though!
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Felix Munoz
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
domcrap wrote:
TabletopAdept wrote:
This in effect becomes Evolution 3rd edition, IMHO. I am getting tired of this... I am not even sure now if the Kickstarter exclusives from the 2nd edition will work on the new "Climate" edition. Ugh... And when they introduce Aquatic and Continents, are they going to redo all the base cards again? (Sorry, frustration growing) shake


?!! Can you explain yourself? How is this 3rd edition?

I think the language Nick used on the Kickstarter is a bit confusing. Just to be clear, everything we have ever released since is compatible with 1st edition Evolution. But mixing all of the cards together willy nilly will not give you a good game experience.


There is a "game system" spin that is being presented that can be perceived by customers as really different versions of the same game.

The concern is based on the following:

[1]
The "Climate" version of the game is flagged as a "re-implementation" of the "Vanilla" version.

[2]
For the "Climate" version to be played as a "Vanilla" version requires the customer:
a)To modify the deck to remove cards that are specific to the "Climate" version.
b)To ignore icons on the remaining cards and boards that are specific to the "Climate" version.

[3]
The "Flight" expansion does not work with the "Climate" version, unless the customer makes the modifications in [2]. Although I am seeing comments encouraging to "just do it", this has not been playtested and there does not seem to be an intention to playtest. North Star Games has said that they do not want to "combine" expansions, which I understand (although there are plenty of examples of card games with combinable expansions, but I am not a game designer). However, the "Climate" version is not an "expansion", it is a "version" that could be modified to behave like the "Vanilla" version. So, therefore, now we have three types of customers: 1) those with the "Vanilla" version that can play "Flight", 2) those with the "Climate" version that cannot play "Flight" (unless they are willing to modify the product), and 3) those with the "Climate" version that can play "Flight" because they are willing to keep two concurrent versions of the product (via modification or by buying a deck of the "Vanilla" version)

[4]
The Kickstarter advertises the "Conversion Kit" for owners of the 2nd Edition. This would be fine except that here are changes to the cards on the "Vanilla" version to make them "Climate" compatible. So, as an owner of the 2nd Edition that buys the "Conversion Kit", I have three choices: 1) replace the "Vanilla" cards with the new versions and do the modifications in [2] when I want to play "Vanilla" version, 2) have two versions of the deck, a "Vanilla" one and a "Climate" one (which forces me to buy two full decks and keep them separate in the box), and 3) I have the "Common" cards deck (that are the same in all versions), then the "Climate"-only cards deck, and then the "Vanilla"-only cards deck, which then means I have to combine the appropriate decks depending on which version of the game (and which expansions) I want to play, and it also means that I have to separate after I play.

[5]
It looks like there are going to be future "base" versions, like "Aquatic" and "Continents", making the problem worse.

[6]
If this is not a different version, then as a customer I should feel like I should be able to own both and I have not wasted my money. But that is not the case here. There is sufficient overlap between the "Vanilla" and "Climate" versions to make me feel like I should not own both, that I need to "convert" my "Vanilla" to "Climate".

[7]
Wondering if North Star Games will maintain 2 SKUs going forward: one for the "Vanilla" version and one for the "Climate" version, since you can play "Vanilla" with "Climate". If the "Vanilla" version goes away, then it is clear that "Climate" is the 3rd Edition.

As a self-declared completionist, what I would like to have seen is a true "expansion" box, like "Flight" was. With that box, I was given the choice as a customer to play "Vanilla" or "Vanilla + Flight". With a "Climate" expansion box, then I would have the choice of "Vanilla", "Vanilla + Flight" or "Vanilla + Climate". Sure , I had to separate cards after the game, but I didn't have to reconstitute my "Vanilla" game by replacing cards back in. It is just like "Smash Up": smash two decks together, play, separate, and go. But, because "Climate" requires changing of the base cards, we don't get that... I am not sure what will happen when "Continents" or "Aquatic" need to change the base cards... Sigh...

1 
 Thumb up
0.50
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Pooley
United Kingdom
Cheshire
flag msg tools
TabletopAdept wrote:

I am not sure what will happen when "Continents" or "Aquatic" need to change the base cards... Sigh...


We will cope with it.

3 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Byron S
United States
Ventura
California
flag msg tools
I don't remember what I ate last night
badge
but I can spout off obscure rules to all sorts of games like nobody's business!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TabletopAdept wrote:
There is a "game system" spin that is being presented that can be perceived by customers as really different versions of the same game.

The concern is based on the following:

[1]
The "Climate" version of the game is flagged as a "re-implementation" of the "Vanilla" version.

No, it's the Vanilla version with the Climate expansion already in the box.

TabletopAdept wrote:
[2]
For the "Climate" version to be played as a "Vanilla" version requires the customer:
a)To modify the deck to remove cards that are specific to the "Climate" version.
b)To ignore icons on the remaining cards and boards that are specific to the "Climate" version.

Part a) is true when you've mixed Flight in as well, this is normal for expansions.
Part b) is not complicated at all.

TabletopAdept wrote:
[3]
...However, the "Climate" version is not an "expansion", it is a "version" that could be modified to behave like the "Vanilla" version...

Except Climate IS an expansion. The standalone box just already has the expansion included.

TabletopAdept wrote:
[4]
The Kickstarter advertises the "Conversion Kit" for owners of the 2nd Edition. This would be fine except that here are changes to the cards on the "Vanilla" version to make them "Climate" compatible. So, as an owner of the 2nd Edition that buys the "Conversion Kit", I have three choices: 1) replace the "Vanilla" cards with the new versions and do the modifications in [2] when I want to play "Vanilla" version, 2) have two versions of the deck, a "Vanilla" one and a "Climate" one (which forces me to buy two full decks and keep them separate in the box), and 3) I have the "Common" cards deck (that are the same in all versions), then the "Climate"-only cards deck, and then the "Vanilla"-only cards deck, which then means I have to combine the appropriate decks depending on which version of the game (and which expansions) I want to play, and it also means that I have to separate after I play.

Or you can swap the Vanilla traits for the same cards with a little bit of Climate text on them, and never use the original versions. Then you just have to add/remove the Climate/Flight expansion-only cards when you want to switch between them.

TabletopAdept wrote:
[5]
It looks like there are going to be future "base" versions, like "Aquatic" and "Continents", making the problem worse.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. We don't know yet.

TabletopAdept wrote:
[6]
If this is not a different version, then as a customer I should feel like I should be able to own both and I have not wasted my money. But that is not the case here. There is sufficient overlap between the "Vanilla" and "Climate" versions to make me feel like I should not own both, that I need to "convert" my "Vanilla" to "Climate".

Don't buy the standalone box then, just get the Climate expansion box (which is misleadingly named a conversion kit.)

TabletopAdept wrote:
As a self-declared completionist, what I would like to have seen is a true "expansion" box, like "Flight" was. With that box, I was given the choice as a customer to play "Vanilla" or "Vanilla + Flight". With a "Climate" expansion box, then I would have the choice of "Vanilla", "Vanilla + Flight" or "Vanilla + Climate". Sure , I had to separate cards after the game, but I didn't have to reconstitute my "Vanilla" game by replacing cards back in. It is just like "Smash Up": smash two decks together, play, separate, and go. But, because "Climate" requires changing of the base cards, we don't get that... I am not sure what will happen when "Continents" or "Aquatic" need to change the base cards... Sigh...

Again, the poorly named 'conversion kit' IS the expansion box. You don't have to swap out the base cards if you're capable of ignoring a couple lines of text and a symbol or two on some of the cards.
3 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Baker
United States
Ohio
flag msg tools

My wife and I are big fans of the original (Russian) Evolution. As we were content enough with that game, plus its expansions, we never checked out this updated version. But after reading the many glowing reviews, we've jumped onto this KS.

Congratulations on it meeting its funding goal.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sara Bear
United States
Centerville
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Not to confuse things, but the option I am going with as a new customer buyin in, not having any, who wants to easily be able to p
Play base with Flight later, is

Buy the standalone Climate

Buy the $6 second edition cards and rules.

Not getting Flight yet, but will down the road.

With just standalone Climate, sorting out which cards to pull out and which to keep in, as there will be base cards with Climate stuff on it you keep in for playing with Flight, you just ignore the Climate stuff on it.

I know there will be lists made, of which exact cards you pull out, and you could sort your game this way. Somebody may make tuckboxes right off, to separate these from the rest of Climate standalone, to make pulling them out easier. But, you'd have to pull them out at the end of every play.

So, my option, is use the 2nd edition set to easily throw in with Flight, later. I don't have to have it, but, I can easily thrkw it in with Any other expansion, unless there's some kind of weirdness going on. They are supposed to be add one and done, so buying one set of this, should do me.

If the edition ever updates, this price suggests it'll be a reasonable price in future. Not just reasonable, but really really low. With rules,


Basically, this is my adaptability option, should learning the game with all that Climate stuff be a problem, or should I want the easier throw things together without unpacking my base/Climate game, plus if showing other noobs,that might confuse them too. So this is my Adaptability option. Which I think is quite thematic. If we unlock any nice animal boards, I would then have extra boards to throw with this copy in a portable games kit (and yes I know I need a couple other things)
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Demski
Canada
Stony Mountain
Manitoba
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TabletopAdept wrote:
[6]
If this is not a different version, then as a customer I should feel like I should be able to own both and I have not wasted my money. But that is not the case here. There is sufficient overlap between the "Vanilla" and "Climate" versions to make me feel like I should not own both, that I need to "convert" my "Vanilla" to "Climate".

[7]
Wondering if North Star Games will maintain 2 SKUs going forward: one for the "Vanilla" version and one for the "Climate" version, since you can play "Vanilla" with "Climate". If the "Vanilla" version goes away, then it is clear that "Climate" is the 3rd Edition.

As a self-declared completionist, what I would like to have seen is a true "expansion" box, like "Flight" was. With that box, I was given the choice as a customer to play "Vanilla" or "Vanilla + Flight". With a "Climate" expansion box, then I would have the choice of "Vanilla", "Vanilla + Flight" or "Vanilla + Climate". Sure , I had to separate cards after the game, but I didn't have to reconstitute my "Vanilla" game by replacing cards back in. It is just like "Smash Up": smash two decks together, play, separate, and go. But, because "Climate" requires changing of the base cards, we don't get that... I am not sure what will happen when "Continents" or "Aquatic" need to change the base cards... Sigh...


I agree 100%. This describes my feelings and opinions towards this Kickstarter to a T.

To me, as an owner of the 2nd Edition, the easiest way to handle this KS is to simply buy the "Climate conversion kit" (which is essentially an expansion in the same vein as Flight, although NorthStar doesn't want to explicitly state that for some reason). It's easy enough for me to keep the decks in each box separated in such a way that I can easily play whatever combination I want (in the way they were intended to be played) with minimal effort. But like TabletopAdept mentioned, this leaves me unsatisfied. I feel like I should have the "Evolution: Climate" standalone game because it's newer, and more likely to be supported for a longer period of time than what I currently have, and because I am such a fan of this game that my completionist tendencies are kicking in.

----------

runtsta wrote:
TabletopAdept][2 wrote:

For the "Climate" version to be played as a "Vanilla" version requires the customer:
a)To modify the deck to remove cards that are specific to the "Climate" version.
b)To ignore icons on the remaining cards and boards that are specific to the "Climate" version.

Part a) is true when you've mixed Flight in as well, this is normal for expansions.
Part b) is not complicated at all.


It's not complicated to you because you are familiar with the game already. You (and I, and many others) have no problem simply ignoring those symbols/text. But undoubtedly, these unnecessary symbols and text on the cards and watering hole are going to make it more difficult for new players to understand the "Vanilla" version of the game. Dominic even confirmed in another thread that one of the main reasons why the 2nd Edition of Evolution is included as an add-on in this campaign is because "[the additional text/icons in CLIMATE standalone] could be confusing for casual gamers if they are just playing the base set."

runtsta wrote:
TabletopAdept][3 wrote:

...However, the "Climate" version is not an "expansion", it is a "version" that could be modified to behave like the "Vanilla" version...

Except Climate IS an expansion. The standalone box just already has the expansion included.


Actually, according to NorthStar, no, it is not an expansion. Notice that they have been very careful to never refer to Climate as an "expansion"; it is only ever referred to as a "conversion kit" or a "standalone game". I honestly have no idea what NorthStar's main goal was in trying to make it clear that this is not an expansion (as the conversion kit at least sounds awfully like an expansion).


runtsta wrote:
TabletopAdept][5 wrote:

It looks like there are going to be future "base" versions, like "Aquatic" and "Continents", making the problem worse.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. We don't know yet.


According to this thread, Dominic (the creator) has confirmed that "Evolution: Sea" will also be a standalone game.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Francois
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
A big thank you for the new shipping cost to Canada ($10). As soon as I saw this I went and pledged for a full stand alone eventhough I already own Evo 2nd ed + flight, this way I'll have easy access to all the variants without swapping cards in and out

And sorry about the "insane" comment, I didn't mean you guys were lying about the shipping cost, I was just shocked at the price difference and very disappointed because it would mean passing on more of this great game.
3 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonas Emmett
Canada
Surrey
BC
flag msg tools
FULL THROTTLE
badge
"Unlike work, which needs some detachment and ought not to be taken too seriously, games need to be played with the utmost seriousness and dedication." - Bruno Faidutti
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Man, when Sea comes out, some people are going to get pretty salty.

6 
 Thumb up
1.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
François-Marie Arouet
United States
Chicago
Illinois
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The art for Nocturnal is amazing, as expected, and maintains the cuteness present in the playtest image. I could not be more thrilled.

PS - $100k! Time for more stretch goals!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Bentley
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Warwolf42 wrote:
A big thank you for the new shipping cost to Canada ($10). As soon as I saw this I went and pledged for a full stand alone eventhough I already own Evo 2nd ed + flight, this way I'll have easy access to all the variants without swapping cards in and out

And sorry about the "insane" comment, I didn't mean you guys were lying about the shipping cost, I was just shocked at the price difference and very disappointed because it would mean passing on more of this great game.


No problem. We fully acknowledge that the price was, as the kids say, "whack"

5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Bentley
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

For those interested in mixing Flight with Climate, Dominic has posted an update on the subject.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Prev «  1 , 2 , 3  | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.