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Master of Orion: The Board Game» Forums » General

Subject: New Era, not TI3 or Eclipse rss

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Marc Bennett
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Shampoo4you wrote:

Judging from Tom's video:

-The game is incredibly short and light.

-The aliens are only slightly different from each other.

-The game has no real player interaction whatsoever. No negotiation. No trade. No espionage. No deception. No bluffing. No blockading. Hell, no SHIPS for that matter.

-The one "interactive" thing? You can do an incredibly abstract "attack", and basically just spend some "weapons" to gain 2 points while your opponent takes a small penalty to their "loyalty" (which isn't really representative of loyalty, it's just yet another track to manage on your spreadsheet).

-Speaking of abstract combat, theme in general is basically missing. This is strictly an abstract cube pusher, and a very light one at that.

What do you remember from MoO? Very unique alien races. Ship design. Fleet battles. Exploration. Intrigue. Politics. Research. Different ways to win. The game has NONE of this. There was also planet and resource management. The game has that ONLY, and none of the other elements I mentioned.

I'm not saying it's a bad game. I'm saying it's not MoO in anyway, and has the IP slapped on it like slapping a Star Wars theme on Tumblin Dice and calling it Star Wars: Tumble in Tattooine or something.

Someone made a post asking me why I don't lose it over other IPs like this? Well I can ignore misuse of Star Wars theme because Rebellion DOES exist. Imperial DOES exist. Armada DOES exist. There are plenty of thematic Star Wars experiences to be had already, so it's not a big deal if they release other games that don't encapsulate the IP. The same goes for Game of Thrones, LOTR...etc.

But to take one of my favorite video game IP's and slap it on a board game that's nothing like it is egregious. It also makes me worried that because they took it in this direction, they won't bother making a more authentic MoO game in the future. I hope I am wrong on this point.


yeah it doesnt look like a bad game but it doesnt look like MOO
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Keith Doyle
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That actually works for me. I prefer the length of Master of Orion over the epic games, and for that matter, haven't gone for Race for the Galaxy partly due to the supposed difficulty of teaching it to new players. Also, I don't know anything about the computer game so that's not at all relevant to me. I'll be keeping an eye on this one.
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Jason Webster
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This game looks like it would work for me. 60 minute length games is about the limit for my game group. I haven't gotten TI2 to the table in over a decade ( No need for me to get TI3- no time to play it).

I can easily see expansion cards for this game. Plus my own house rules.
Give bonus for trade between players. Negative last for attacking a trade partner.
Give the Humans humans a trade bonus and a likability bonus ( maybe 2 actions to attack them).

Yup I can work with this game so far.
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John Brock
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Alan Emrich wrote:

Damn! Then it remains on my bucket list to produce a great 4X boardgame in the best traditions on MOO with those wonderful aspects we remember.

I should live so long!

Alan Emrich

Oh, you should! You should!
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Eric Pietrocupo
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Quote:
Star Wars: Tumble in Tattooine

... laugh ...


These were my comments, but I still need to take a look at tom vassel video.
Quote:

After a video review: I am really not sure about this game. I do like the idea od the tableau building game and the component, but there are a few weird mechanics. Building cards into system is ok, but only the mast card in the system is active. The advantage is that you only have to look out for 4 cards, but the order of play for those cards matter a lot.

It also feels like a worker placement game, a bit weird that your resources and actions greatly varies through the game. I guess I'll have to play first, Maybe I was expecting more with the same components.


I do not mind having a MOO game with exactly the same type of components. (Cards, cube and dash board) But still, it could do better to have the same look and feel as the original MOO123 games. This one does not.
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Chris Ruf
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I get that it is annoying to see an IP not accurately refleted in a board game bearing its name. However, in the specific case of MoO, it would have been a MASSIVE undertaking to create a game similar enough to the source material without it becoming some sort of monster akin to Europe Universalis (I know this comparison is a little overboard), TI3, or something. And there is a very limited market for those types of games due to price and length. I also don't think it's feasible to create a MoO game that would actually please the enthusiasts.

If the game had just a generic space theme would we be talking about it this much? Seems like they put the license to good business use. Making a few die hard fans of the license slightly annoyed seems like a fair trade off for better exposure.
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Eric Pietrocupo
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It does not have to include everything the video game has. Just some interesting elements that works well together.
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Trey Chambers
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larienna wrote:


I do not mind having a MOO game with exactly the same type of components. (Cards, cube and dash board) But still, it could do better to have the same look and feel as the original MOO123 games. This one does not.


It's definitely possible a good MoO game could be developed using the same component. A map or solar system tiles aren't ESSENTIAL (but would have been nice).

But this particular card game seems to lack any sort of depth and theme (I'm honestly a bit surprised Tom didn't hammer it for how abstract and spreadsheet-like it is, as he did with Eclipse).

As a sort of introductory Race for the Galaxy, I'm sure it works just fine. But definitely lacks the depth and theme of a Master of Orion game, and especially, any semblance of a 4x experience.
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Trey Chambers
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Legend5555 wrote:
I get that it is annoying to see an IP not accurately refleted in a board game bearing its name. However, in the specific case of MoO, it would have been a MASSIVE undertaking to create a game similar enough to the source material without it becoming some sort of monster akin to Europe Universalis (I know this comparison is a little overboard), TI3, or something. And there is a very limited market for those types of games due to price and length. I also don't think it's feasible to create a MoO game that would actually please the enthusiasts.

If the game had just a generic space theme would we be talking about it this much? Seems like they put the license to good business use. Making a few die hard fans of the license slightly annoyed seems like a fair trade off for better exposure.


Sid Meier's Civilization: The Board Game does the 4x thing in 3 hours.

Eclipse is much closer to the MoO experience than the actual MoO game.

Just for two quick examples as how it could be done in a less than 10 hour epic game.
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Jordan S.
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I think I'll end up picking this one up. As Tom said in his review, it's not the computer game in board game form but it looks like a solid game in it's own right. And while I have to admit some slight disappointment that this didn't turn out to be an epic 4X style game, the game as-is will probably be much more likely to hit my table than those types of games anyway.

Call me cautiously optimistic.
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Chris Ruf
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Shampoo4you wrote:
Legend5555 wrote:
I get that it is annoying to see an IP not accurately refleted in a board game bearing its name. However, in the specific case of MoO, it would have been a MASSIVE undertaking to create a game similar enough to the source material without it becoming some sort of monster akin to Europe Universalis (I know this comparison is a little overboard), TI3, or something. And there is a very limited market for those types of games due to price and length. I also don't think it's feasible to create a MoO game that would actually please the enthusiasts.

If the game had just a generic space theme would we be talking about it this much? Seems like they put the license to good business use. Making a few die hard fans of the license slightly annoyed seems like a fair trade off for better exposure.


Sid Meier's Civilization: The Board Game does the 4x thing in 3 hours.

Eclipse is much closer to the MoO experience than the actual MoO game.

Just for two quick examples as how it could be done in a less than 10 hour epic game.


I realize those exist and a middle ground is possible. I was basing my comparisons off your list of things that you would want in an MoO game.

If it had been like Eclipse or Civ, would you have really been satisfied?
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Trey Chambers
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Legend5555 wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:
Legend5555 wrote:
I get that it is annoying to see an IP not accurately refleted in a board game bearing its name. However, in the specific case of MoO, it would have been a MASSIVE undertaking to create a game similar enough to the source material without it becoming some sort of monster akin to Europe Universalis (I know this comparison is a little overboard), TI3, or something. And there is a very limited market for those types of games due to price and length. I also don't think it's feasible to create a MoO game that would actually please the enthusiasts.

If the game had just a generic space theme would we be talking about it this much? Seems like they put the license to good business use. Making a few die hard fans of the license slightly annoyed seems like a fair trade off for better exposure.


Sid Meier's Civilization: The Board Game does the 4x thing in 3 hours.

Eclipse is much closer to the MoO experience than the actual MoO game.

Just for two quick examples as how it could be done in a less than 10 hour epic game.


I realize those exist and a middle ground is possible. I was basing my comparisons off your list of things that you would want in an MoO game.

If it had been like Eclipse or Civ, would you have really been satisfied?


Yes, actually. I don't really have much time or patience for a 10-hour game, even though they are fun once a year or so. I'd much rather something with a more manageable playtime that I could actually get to the table.
 
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Jonathan Franklin
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For those who don't know the linkage between Alan Emrich and MoO, check this out, http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1274341.Master_of_Orion
 
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Chris Ruf
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Shampoo4you wrote:
Legend5555 wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:
Legend5555 wrote:
I get that it is annoying to see an IP not accurately refleted in a board game bearing its name. However, in the specific case of MoO, it would have been a MASSIVE undertaking to create a game similar enough to the source material without it becoming some sort of monster akin to Europe Universalis (I know this comparison is a little overboard), TI3, or something. And there is a very limited market for those types of games due to price and length. I also don't think it's feasible to create a MoO game that would actually please the enthusiasts.

If the game had just a generic space theme would we be talking about it this much? Seems like they put the license to good business use. Making a few die hard fans of the license slightly annoyed seems like a fair trade off for better exposure.


Sid Meier's Civilization: The Board Game does the 4x thing in 3 hours.

Eclipse is much closer to the MoO experience than the actual MoO game.

Just for two quick examples as how it could be done in a less than 10 hour epic game.


I realize those exist and a middle ground is possible. I was basing my comparisons off your list of things that you would want in an MoO game.

If it had been like Eclipse or Civ, would you have really been satisfied?


Yes, actually. I don't really have much time or patience for a 10-hour game, even though they are fun once a year or so. I'd much rather something with a more manageable playtime that I could actually get to the table.


Not that there can't be multiple games with similar themes, ideas, or mechanics, but what would you want in an MoO game that would distinguish it from Eclipse, TI3, Civ, Star Trek Ascendancy, etc?
 
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Trey Chambers
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Legend5555 wrote:

Not that there can't be multiple games with similar themes, ideas, or mechanics, but what would you want in an MoO game that would distinguish it from Eclipse, TI3, Civ, Star Trek Ascendancy, etc?


Certainly more than this MoO game differentiates itself from the light space games we already have (Tiny Epic Galaxies, Among the Stars, Race for the Galaxy, Roll for the Galaxy...etc.).

There are a myriad of ways it could implement 4x differently. All of those games you just mentioned do 4x very differently from each other, and MoO could do the same. I'd put effort into listing specific mechanics if I thought I could get a job designing it.

Mr. Emerich thinks that he could and should. I highly encourage that he try! Especially if he could get on board with the same publisher and make proper use of the MoO license.
 
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Eric Pietrocupo
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"Imperial Settlers" is a similar game that seems better than this one.

Yes, there is a lot of space opera board game, and yes it you combine ideas used in all those games into one big massive game, you could get the moo experience in possibly 25 hours of game play.

Most of those game will focus on a certain aspect of the space opera genre: Resourcemanagement, war, politics, etc. Most of those game cannot implement it all.

But if you as me what is the most important aspect of MOO that the game should focus on, it's really hard to say. From moo 2 perspective, most of the time is spent on colony management, then war then technology research. So I assume this is the most important features. Espionage, logistic and diplomacy could be considered side mechanics in matter of presence in the game.

Now, there is a lot of games out there that do have war, tech, colony management. What makes Moo stand up from those game, I am not so sure. I could say the power of technology. The maker of this game made master of magic which also have very powerful spell, in moo it's technologies. So game breaking technologies could be a way of making the game stand out of the other games. You are not getting minor bonus but major bonus or abilities. Ex: Doom Star, Stellar converters.

The combination of those abilities is also something players like to deal with in Mom and MoO.
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Jonathan Franklin
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I'm in the camp that liked the abstraction of MoO more than the more Civ-like MoO II. If there is a way to abstract the production queues and fleet movement, that would differentiate it from the TI3/Eclipse games while making it shorter.
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Jason Webster
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Legend5555 wrote:
I get that it is annoying to see an IP not accurately refleted in a board game bearing its name. However, in the specific case of MoO, it would have been a MASSIVE undertaking to create a game similar enough to the source material without it becoming some sort of monster akin to Europe Universalis (I know this comparison is a little overboard), TI3, or something. And there is a very limited market for those types of games due to price and length. I also don't think it's feasible to create a MoO game that would actually please the enthusiasts.

If the game had just a generic space theme would we be talking about it this much? Seems like they put the license to good business use. Making a few die hard fans of the license slightly annoyed seems like a fair trade off for better exposure.


I don't own TI3. But I do own TI2. I made a MoO2 variant for it. You can custom create you own race based on the point system for race creation in MoO2. It felt very much like We were playing MoO2 with that variant.
 
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Eric Pietrocupo
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The problem with simplifies MoM and MoO board game is the special abilities from spells and technologies. They can never be implemented because there is not enought elements in the game to be affected by special abilities.

I think that is what made those game cools, the special powers. So maybe a tech based game like Innovation or another game I don't remember the title could be a better solution.

I have also realised lately that in MoM, 3/4 of the spells are actually combat spells, or spell that affect battle resolution. So when you remove tactical battles from a game, you remove a huge area of effect. Not sure for MoO, but I know there is a lot of tech used for ship design and tactical combat. So maybe, a tactical space warfare game would be another better solution.

Or something like the age of mythology board game, you have civ management and combat.

------------------------------------------

I love the san juan/RFTG like card play. Dont like the new building covering up old buildings.
 
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RogMcK wrote:
Remember, that MoO2 was very much about resource management.
No, it was about designing your own badass ships. And getting to use them in the tactical battle screen. Disabling an enemy ship and sending a boarding party over to take control of the ship is fun
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Eric Pietrocupo
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And wiping entire fleets with plasma cannons and Busting planets with stellar converters.
 
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Joel H
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larienna wrote:
And wiping entire fleets with plasma cannons and Busting planets with stellar converters.


This. Stellar converters were fun the first time, but I really enjoy being able to wipe out an entire Antaren fleet with titans armed with plasma cannons.
 
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Jonathan Franklin
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MoO is like an elephant - you think it feels like a tree trunk and I think it feels like a snake.
 
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Eric Pietrocupo
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So you mean people get different experience and use different strategies from the same game.

Like for Example, in Master of Magic, some people are making super heroes and design artifacts to beef them up, while I don't bother because all range units kill him the first round of battle.
 
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Shampoo4you wrote:
-The one "interactive" thing? You can do an incredibly abstract "attack", and basically just spend some "weapons" to gain 2 points while your opponent takes a small penalty to their "loyalty" (which isn't really representative of loyalty, it's just yet another track to manage on your spreadsheet).

That's only true for the basic "attack" action.
But since this is an engine builder, actions start really weak, you need to build your engine to be more efficient.

I played a game today with an oppenent...
*getting 3-5 VPs per attack instead of 2 (in a game that seems to end with 40-60 VPs per player)
*getting to see the hand of his victim and pick one card (getting better cards for himself or ruining the opponent's plans)
*reducing loyalty by 2-3 instead of 1 (and you need loyalty >5 to play the VP related action cards)
...and then, it really starts to hurt.

"Loyalty" is basically your "wounds" in this game. It's both losing VPs and crippling your economy. And it ends the game when you drop below 0 (again, this hurts quite a bit because you are bleeding VPs)

I agree that fighting is a bit "abstract" in this game, you don't have a real "battle", and you do not conquer, grab recources or facilities. But it's definetly not meaningless.

There are also some "interactive" cards in the deck that allow to cripple the opponent in one way or another. Not too many, but you'll always be afraid they have them at the worst time possible for you...
And since you don't play for hundreds of points or dozens of rounds, they really can hurt your plans.
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