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Subject: Should I buy 1st or 2nd edition? rss

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Hegalian_Crisis!!
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Hello all!
(I posted this same question on the 2nd ed forum.)
I assumed if I were to buy Battlelore I'd certainly buy the 2nd edition but after looking at both I'm not sure. It looks like the two are quite different beyond simply cleaning up the rules from the 1st ed. I'm hoping someone can help me as I've been very frustrated in finding a game that my kids (age 9-12, all girls) AND I can enjoy together. Here are my concerns:
1. It appears in 1st ed that both sides have a traditional medieval army supplemented by orcs, magic etc whereas the 2nd is more or less humans against various creatures (but still uses magic etc). I like the 1st ed theme better so I'm wondering if I have that correct. If so, are there expansions or variants for the 2nd ed that would enable the 1st ed theme?
2. Are the rules so much better in 2nd ed that I couldn't very easily tweak the 1st ed (thru house-rules) to make them closely match the 2nd ed?
3. Speaking of expansions & variants, I'm worried that if my kids really take to the game, I'll be kicking myself for not getting 2nd ed since it appears the publisher is still expanding the 2nd ed (and I'm assuming they aren't doing so with the 1st). Again, if I can tweak the rules I suppose that's not so much an issue.
Thank SO MUCH for any help!
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I own the entire collection of the 1st edition, and I owned the 2nd edition base game for few days. Reason: I knew there were some non-mixeable things (like the dices), but I wasn't aware the hex size was different from a version to another... I did intend to use the 2nd ed. terrains with the 1st edition because the rules and graphics are very compatibles, but couldn't.
So, don't repeat my error
Otherwise, I don't know what's best to play, but I'm not interested by 2nd edition, because my first one had a good feeling and the second is very different.
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Alexandros Boucharelis
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i ve kept the 1st! and sold the 2nd! main reason, I didn't liked the 2nds victory conditions (catch the flag instead of eliminating the enemy units).
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Kent Reuber
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kastrologos wrote:
i ve kept the 1st! and sold the 2nd! main reason, I didn't liked the 2nds victory conditions (catch the flag instead of eliminating the enemy units).
That's how I felt about 2nd edition as well.
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Doug Bey
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I own all of the 1st edition as well as all of 2nd edition. For me, I prefer 2nd edition.

The play is smoother.
The miniatures are better.
Easier for younger kids to get into.
Less fiddly than 1st edition.
Set up is quicker / easier.
The mission specific objectives for victory are more interesting in 2nd edition.

That being said, if they ever create an official "cross-over" expansion so we can use our copious amount of figures et. al. from the 1st edition in the 2nd edition universe, I'd be all over that.
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1st edition (classic or 'real') Battlelore has been out of print for quite a while and thus hard to find, some expansions even more so. Stripping the fantasy elements out leaves a very good 100 years war historical battle game.

2nd edition is really a very different game. Both are 'battle' fantasy games but that's about all the editions have in common. Different rules, mechanics, background, and figure scale. 2nd edition is still in print. 2nd Ed. is more a large scale fantasy fighting skirmish game that a battle simulation.
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Ross T
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This is a great question, and a decision you won't want to rush into. My suggestion is that you try the excellent "Battlelore Command" app / pc game and see if the theme suits you. It is a virtual clone of the BL2e game. I spent the $5 and it gave a great taste of the Terrinoth-based game. BL1e is more generic and has been used to recreate battles in all sorts of fictional worlds (Uchronia, Middle Earth, Westeros, etc.)
I don't own BL2e but it looks like an excellent game if you are prepared to invest the funds. There are now lots of copies of BL1e appearing on ebay for bargain prices so that could influence your decision too. I own BL1e and found it very easy to simplify elements for playing with kids. Also, I own Battles of Westeros core set (still in production) and find there is a high degree of reverse-compatibility between this game and BL1e, so you may want to check that out too. Whatever you decide you will get an excellent fantasy battle game, I think it comes down to the theme you are looking for.
 
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Harvey Weston
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If you are interested in the 1st edition I just put up a complete core game and all the expansions except for the Epic one, on BGG. English version all of them.
 
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Dan Cavaliere
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I prefer BL1E but I will be honest and say I've played it about 100 times more than BL2E and put a lot more money and time into it as well.

I was disappointed they did not continue BL1E and instead created essentially a new version, but I feel my BL1E set can stand on it's own.

If you can get some plays on the BL2E computer app version and maybe some plays on Vassal of the BL1E version I think that would be good idea. I feel they play different enough that if you're only choosing one, I'd buy the one I'd go back to the most often - that happens to be BL1E for me but may be different for you. Good luck
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Martin Gallo
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My short answer is: Yes.

Slightly longer answer is: either. They play roughly the same, most of the differences are cosmetic, although here are some rules changes. 1ed seems to take longer to set up and play but has more goodies. So, pick your poison.
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Little Idiot
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Careful on using the Battlelore Command app as yardstick for 2nd edition. The card mechanics are very different iirc. The real game looks the same as any Commands and Colors game. The app uses a bag of four (I think) section cards which you exhaust and then refresh. So not so much fog of war. It was this and the lack of 'medieval only' battles that steered me away from 2nd edition. But it seems only the latter was valid. Prices for 1st edition have come down dramatically since 2nd edition came out though. But expansions are scarce. I got lucky and my local store had Scottish wars and code of chivalry gathering dust. The only other thing I want which is scarce is the 100 years war expansion. At the moment that would cost more than the core set.
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Karl
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I prefer 1st on many levels. The setting is more unique for me. 2nd is more or less generic fantasy. Also IMHO 1st with all expansions has more stuff to explore with dragons, leaders, ... Yes I wished it was expanded more into further Fantasy races, but I'd not trade it for 2nd.
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Tomas
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I prefer the 1st edition too. Of course I may be biased, owning all expansions to it with the minis painted, and having played it close to 100 times, compared to maybe 4 times for BL2.

Some of the pros for me would be:

- "Realistic" objectives. Points for eliminating enemy units, not camping on a random pieces of terrain
- Larger scale, especially when you play with epic and use two boards
- Pre-setup scenarios. I don't particularly enjoy the buying and placing mini-game of BL2e, and I have enough games with this element already
- Able to play both fantasy and historical games

That being said, I don't think BL2 is a bad game, and I have no idea what the expansions bring to the game.
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Andrii
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I own almost all the 1st edition line, and I had 2nd edition as well, but I sold it almost immediately. As for me, I prefer 1st edition. When I opened the box with 2nd edition for the first time, I had the feeling I was cheated by FFG. It lacked almost everything I like in 1st edition – the way of packing and presenting of components, amount of game accessories like trays for cards and tower “cups” for tokens, etc. The 2nd edition creates an impression of a greedy approach to the brand, with its almost empty box, ridiculous amount of dices and so on. I prefer the 1st for other reasons as well.
The rules are more balanced.
The miniatures are better.
The scale of miniatures is better as well – it creates the feeling of big battles, not skirmish.
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Jonathan Challis
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2e is a good game. 1e is a very different great game.

Unless you are an adherent of the new cult of streamlined and simplified then I'd definitely go for 1e.
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Hegalian_Crisis!!
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Thanks to everyone for taking the time!

Ugh. My kids seem to like the look of 2nd ed but I like the 1st. So of course I'll do what I want...don't tell them I said that. They scare me.
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Dan Cavaliere
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My son would have liked the look of BL2E but we had HeroScape for that

He did love BL1E from about age 11 and played it a lot with me all the way through the Heroes expansion. He ended up loving that expansion and how he was able to keep the hero from game to game and watch it improve.

Just thought I'd throw that in there for you to help you feel better about getting what you want
 
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Thijs Nijskens
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1st Edition. I own the complete set and that's how it's intended to play
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voidreturn
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I own everything for 1st edition and the base game for 2nd edition. Second edition's rules are better written and has better variety. First edition fots C&C much better and is very fun when you include some of the expansions.

BL Command is terrible, so many interface mistakes. Constantly spinning map? Check. Menus that are not clear what they mean because they're contextual? Check. Unnecessary zooming in and out for combat? Check. Goofy mismatch from the board game? Check. Inability to load scenarios from their scenario designer? Vheck. In-app purchases? Check.

Save your money and play BL1E on VASSAL.
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David Bezio
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I own everything for 1st edition, and everything for 2nd edition. All painted and 3D game board for both. I'm what you might call a super fan.

IMHO, buy 2nd edition...

-It will be easier to find for a reasonable price.

-The core game provides a ton more re-playability because of the way scenarios work, and the way you can build different armies each battle and deploy them in different ways. (And despite what some of the above posters said, there are pitched battles on the FFG website that don't involve the victory point conditions they don't like. You can also use the scenario designer to design your own).

-The rules provide the same opportunities for the same type of tactical play (as 1st edition), but are much more streamlined and less "fiddly".

-The game gets better and offers even more playability and variety with expansions, not more confusing and cluttered like 1st edition.

I loved first edition, and really do love the more "classic" fantasy of goblins and dwarves, ect. I also like the less "serious" looking miniatures (but that's personal taste). It's a great game...but was replaced by a better one. It happens. I can (almost) guarantee you'll play 2nd edition a lot longer than you will play 1st edition.
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Ben Boersma
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1st by a country mile. A much better game.
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