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Subject: Attacking Ogre Tracks rss

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David Valenze
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Yes, you are correct in your understanding on this topic. If an X result is rolled on the CRT at 1-1 odds, the Ogre loses a number of tread units equal to the attack strength of the attacking unit.
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Gary Pressler
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cedric18 wrote:
...the Ogre loses a number of tread units equal to the attack strength of the attacking unit.

Years (and years) ago when I first learned the game, we missed this rather crucial detail and temporarily thought the Ogre unstoppable! robot
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Stephen Rochelle
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It's also worth clarifying that, with one exception, multiple units/weapons cannot combine attacks against Ogre treads -- each weapon must fire one-at-a-time at 1:1 odds.

(the exception is stacked infantry squads, which can fire together or separately as desired)

Why does this matter? Suppose you've got two HVYs, the Ogre has 8 tread left, and you have to kill it this turn. If you can combine attacks, then you've got an 8-factor attack and a 1-in-3 chance to stop the Ogre. However, you can't do that, and so your separate 4-factor attacks only have a 1-in-9 chance. Combining attacks would allow for a handful of massive strikes to rapidly immobilize an Ogre.
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Jeremy Fridy
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Part of me has wondered how it would play if you rolled one die for each point of attack strength and each 5 or 6 would knock off one track.
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Andrew Walters
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The way the rules are written each unit makes a 1-1 attack, and on an X you destroy the attack strength's worth of treads. So if a HVY attacks, roll a 5 or 6 to destroy four tread units.

Infantry is sort of an exception. Up to three squads *may* combine their fire for one attack as above, or you can roll for each squad. Depends on how desperate you are, I guess.

I supposed SHVYs are another exception, since they can attack separately with each gun. So you could have one roll for six damage or two rolls for three each.
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Mark Robinson
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I never was much good at probabilities; is it not better to roll more dice in the hope of getting more positive results? i.e. one chance to do 3 damage, or 3 chances to do 1 damage each time.
 
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Niko
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DIFFLOCK wrote:
I never was much good at probabilities; is it not better to roll more dice in the hope of getting more positive results? i.e. one chance to do 3 damage, or 3 chances to do 1 damage each time.
As Stephen wrote above, the probability of dealing maximum damage is actually highest if you combine fire as much as possible.
If you are splitting the attacks the probability of them all hitting is calculated by multiplying the probabilities of each one hitting. I.e. two shots = .3*.3 = .09 = 9%, three shots .3*.3*.3 = .027 = 2.7%

Similarly the odds of all attacks missing goes down though (multiply the probabilities of each individual one missing), so what is gained by splitting fire is the a low chance of dealing no damage at the cost of reducing your chance of dealing high damage.

That's why many don't like HWZ much; they can deal 6 damage in one go, but mot rounds they will deal zero damage. 6 infantry squads will rarely deal 6 damage in one go, but they'll also much more rarely deal no damage. 2 missile tanks are somewhere in between regarding reliability (and of course this totally ignores range of all the units)
If all where firing infinitely many times they'd all average out at 2 damage per turn, but the HWZ is be a prime target and most likely blown up after very few shots, making it a distinct possibility that it never hits the entire game.
 
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Darin Sunley
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The probabilities are exactly the same either way: over an extended period of time, a unit that does 3 1-1 shots for 1 point of damage each turn will deliver exactly as much damage as a unit that does 1 1-1 shot for 3 points of damage each turn.

But the difference is that the 3 1-1 shots unit has good odds of delivering some of those damage points a turn or two earlier. And when your goal is to take out the treads as quickly as possible, that makes a significant difference.

In a meeting engagement, it wouldn't matter too much exactly where you immobilize the Ogre. In a Smash-the-CP scenario, it matters very very much. If you stop the Ogre one turn too late, you lose the game. Getting a few tread points a turn or two earlier can make all the difference.

[Interestingly, this is the only rule difference between Ogre Pocket Edition and ODE. Pocket Edition omits the paragraph allowing you to have infantry pieces split their fire. This was probably an editorial oversight - the rules are otherwise identical. The upcoming box set will virtually certainly allow infantry fire-splitting as well.]
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David Damerell
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HeatDeath wrote:
The probabilities are exactly the same either way:


It would be better to say that the expected average outcome is the same.

Quote:
But the difference is that the 3 1-1 shots unit has good odds of delivering some of those damage points a turn or two earlier. And when your goal is to take out the treads as quickly as possible, that makes a significant difference.


It can make a significant difference in either direction. If on the turn you might reduce the OGRE's movement allowance you need 3 more tread damage when you've fired everything else, you'd much rather have one three-damage shot. If you need one more tread damage, you'd much rather have three one-damage shots.
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