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Subject: Eminent Domain: Oblivion -- Print and play opportunity rss

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Seth Jaffee
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Now that Exotica has hit the shelves and excitement for EmDo in general is on the upswing, I have up-to-date prototype files (linked in the description of this guild) for the NEXT EmDo expansion, currently entitled Eminent Domain: Oblivion, for print-an-play testing and feedback.

Here's a description of the expansion and the basic rules involved:

Eminent Domain: Oblivion is the third and probably final installment of the Eminent Domain series. Its focus is on political aspects of running a space empire, adding a new Politics role, as well as Clout tokens. The expansion also adds some Prestige planets as well as some Prestige technology to go with them.

I envision Prestige planets as being like Coruscant (from Star Wars) or Mercatol Rex (from Twilight Imperium (Third Edition)) -- the kind of place where galactic senates meet and policies are made. As such, you'll find a few planets with Politics icons, or replenishing clout icons, and some with actions (like bustling planets from Eminent Domain: Escalation) or effects that have to do with the new political aspects of the game.

When I say "political aspects", I'm talking about Agendas. The main new aspect of the expansion, Agendas are global effects that can be activated and dismissed via the new Politics role. The player activating the Agenda will get a bonus for doing so, and while active, the Agenda will affect all players equally... you may do well to try and activate Agendas that support your strategy, or tweak your strategy to take advantage of the Agendas that get activated.

The Politics role will allow you to amass support from your opponents in order to activate or dismiss Agendas (or annex planets), and in exchange those opponents get Clout tokens, which are 1-shot icons to be used to boost or follow a role in the future.

Here are the details of how all this works:

Agendas:
There is a new board that will be placed underneath the Central Card Display (in the end I'll probably just print the CCD on the board) which has space for an Agenda deck, some notes on what you can do with a Politics role, and slots along the top for Upcoming Agendas and along the bottom for Active Agendas. The slots have costs listed, with the leftmost being the most expensive and the rightmost being the cheapest. These costs are the number of Politics icons you need to Activate or Dismiss the Agenda in that slot.

During setup, first make sure you've got the right board for the number of players -- the 2-3 player board has lower costs than the 4-5 player board. Shuffle the Agenda deck and deal an Agenda face up in each Upcoming Agenda slot. Nothing goes in the Active Agenda slots yet.

Politics role:
When choosing the Politics role, you must declare what you are trying to garner support for:
A. Activating a particular Upcoming Agenda, moving it to the leftmost Active slot, bumping other Active Agendas down 1 slot to make room,
B. Dismissing a particular Active Agenda, sending it to the bottom of the Agenda deck, or
C. Annexing a particular Planet in your empire that has an Annex cost. All of the new Prestige planets have an Annex cost of 4[POL], and a few cards can give your other planets an Annex cost as well.

Unlike other roles, when you choose the Politics role you do not boost until all opponents have had the chance to follow or dissent. Each opponent who chooses to follow may play as many Politics icons as they like, and for each icon played they get to draw 1 Clout token from the bag.

After all other players have Followed or Dissented, you may boost as normal by playing Politics icons, but you do NOT draw Clout when you are the leader!

After all players have contributed Politics icons (and opponents have collected their Clout tokens as appropriate), then...

* IF you have enough Politics icons to do the declared thing, then you do it. Extra icons can then be spent doing another, different thing (so at most you can Activate 1 Agenda, Dismiss 1 Agenda, and Annex 1 Planet).

* IF you do NOT have enough icons to do the declared thing, then you may do ANY thing, but at cost +1 icon.

For example, you call Politics role and declare "I want to enact the Agenda in the 5-cost slot." Player 2 follows with 2 icons (drawing 2 clout). Players 3 and 4 dissent. If you have 3 or more Politics icons, then you may play them and enact the 5-cost agenda. But let's say you only have 2 icons you could play... you can decide to save them and do nothing, or you could play 1 icon (making 3 total) and enact the 2-cost Agenda, or you could play both icons (making 4 total) and enact the 2-cost or the 3-cost agenda.

Note that all Politics cards (including the ones in the original game) have a Politics icon on them.

At the end of each Politics role if there's an Agenda in the rightmost Upcoming slot, return it to the bottom of the deck. Then slide all Upcoming Agendas to the right as far as they go (maintaining 1 cad per slot) and refill the empty (leftmost) slot(s) from the top of the deck.

Political Influence tile:
Like the Fleet and Mining tiles from Escalation and Exotica, Oblivion has a reference tile that you'll start with called the Political Influence tile. This tile gives you 2 different options of things you can do as an action instead of playing a card from your hand: Draw 1 Clout token, and Trade 1 resource for another, different resource (this new resource does not require a resource slot, you keep it in your inventory like you do ships).

During a research role you may upgrade this tile to Improved Political Influence (flip it over) by paying 3 Research -- there is no planet requirement for this upgrade. Improved Political Influence increases the efficiency with which you can do both of those actions listed above, gives you a permanent Politics icon, and gives all of your planets an Annex cost of 7[POL] (this does not increase the Annex cost of planets with a printed Annex cost, or planets that are given a different Annex cost by another method).

Clout tokens:
Clout tokens are circular tokens with Politics icons on the back, and a random role icon on the front. Keep these in a draw bag, box lid, bowl, or just a big face down pile.

You will draw Clout tokens when following a Politics role (you get 1 token for each Politics icon you contribute), when using the action on the Political Influence tile, or occasionally via other actions on tech cards or planets.

Keep these Clout tokens face down in your empire, but you can look at them at any time. You may spend these tokens when boosting or following any Politics role (as all tokens show a Politics icon on the back), or whatever role is depicted on the front. For example if you have a token with a Survey icon, you can use it to boost or follow a Survey role or a Politics role.

New Technology:
There are a couple of new tech cards for each of the Advanced, Fertile, Metallic, and Diverse stacks, as well as a new stack of Prestige tech. Most of this technology has to do with Agendas, Politics roles, and Clout tokens. This is about a 2nd draft of the tech, and in the end I might not include any Diverse tech, but I like the idea of Prestige tech dealing with politics.

You buy these the same way you would buy any tech, you must have the prerequisite planets in play and spend the right number of Research icons (there is not an alternate cost for tech cards in this set like there is in Escalation).

Terminology:
Oblivion uses some terms from Escalation such as RECON, as well as some new terminology:
RECON -- Just like in Escalation, "search the indicated deck and discard pile for the indicated card, then shuffle the deck and discard pile to make a new deck and put the indicated card on top".
ACTIVATE -- Move an Upcoming Agenda to the highest cost Active slot, sliding any Active agendas down to make room. Any Agenda sliding off the bottom slot gets returned to the bottom of the Agenda deck.
DISMISS -- Move an Active Agenda to the bottom of the Agenda deck. Do not shift any other Agendas to fill space.
ANNEX -- Flip over a planet by playing a number of Politics icons equal to the Annex cost. You may use permanent Politics icons as well, just like when you follow or boost a role.

Please let me know if you have any questions!

Edit: added clarification about the end of the Politics role
Edit 8/31/16: updated resolution of Politics role
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Kapish Aggarwal
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Printing out the files now and setting them up to take with me when I travel. I may not get to test them out, but we'll see. I did have a couple of questions.

1) Even though the file instructs to make 24 Politics cards, I didn't any details regarding setup or quantity of Politics cards in the Politics role stack. Using the chart in the Exotica Book, should I assume the following?

1 per starting deck
2 Players - 16
3 Players - 20
3 Players (Extended) - 18
4 Players - 20

2) Even though the side notes indicate all the technologies are permanent, there seemed to be some discrepancy. My educated guesses lead to the following card setup (correct me if I am wrong):

Permanent Techs (Side 1 <=> Side 2):
Farming Subsidy <=> Grassroots Movement
Free Trade Agreement <=> Scientific Community
Police State <=> Political Climate
Prestige Lobbyist <=> Prestige Clout
Diverse Lobbyist <=> Divers Clout
Filibuster <=> Party Whip

Standalone Techs (Single Sided and go into deck):
Call In A Favor
Wheel & Deal
Executive Order
Political Annexation
Campaign Trail
Targeted Lobbying (This is mistyped in the file as "Targetted Lobbying")

3) The intended board setup is as depicted in the photo below. The politics cards off to the side represent the politics stack where players draw the politics cards from during the role.




That should hopefully be it for now...
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Seth Jaffee
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antilog17 wrote:
Printing out the files now and setting them up to take with me when I travel. I may not get to test them out, but we'll see. I did have a couple of questions.

If you do get a chance to play, I look forward to your feedback! Thanks for taking the time to print it all out. I'll answer your questions forthwith!

Quote:
1) Even though the file instructs to make 24 Politics cards, I didn't any details regarding setup or quantity of Politics cards in the Politics role stack. Using the chart in the Exotica Book, should I assume the following?

1 per starting deck
2 Players - 16
3 Players - 20
3 Players (Extended) - 18
4 Players - 20

That would be fine. Honestly I highly suspect the Politics stack will ever really run out, and so I'm not sure if I should worry about it being a game end trigger.

I had considered saying that when you use a Politics card for its action, you put it back in the stack, and just not worrying about that stack running out.

But go ahead and use the breakdown you have above and let me know what you think - it would probably be easiest to just include a specific number at all player counts (12 would probably be enough).

Quote:
2) Even though the side notes indicate all the technologies are permanent, there seemed to be some discrepancy.

Oops! I was going to make them all permanent, but then I added some non-permanent ones, and I guess I forgot about that note!

It should be easy to tell which is not permanent (they have icons in the upper left, their title isn't centered, and they don't say "leave this card in play").

The back-to-back cards should be set up for easy coordination.

Quote:
My educated guesses lead to the following card setup (correct me if I am wrong):

Permanent Techs (Side 1 <=> Side 2):
Farming Subsidy <=> Grassroots Movement
Free Trade Agreement <=> Scientific Community
Police State <=> Political Climate
Prestige Lobbyist <=> Prestige Clout
Diverse Lobbyist <=> Divers Clout
Filibuster <=> Party Whip

Standalone Techs (Single Sided and go into deck):
Call In A Favor
Wheel & Deal
Executive Order
Political Annexation
Campaign Trail
Targeted Lobbying (This is mistyped in the file as "Targetted Lobbying")

That all sounds correct. My apologies for any typos!

I'm considering ditching the diverse tech (there's only 2 of them anyway).

Quote:
3) The intended board setup is as depicted in the photo below. The politics cards off to the side represent the politics stack where players draw the politics cards from during the role.


That looks correct!

The space on the left is for the Agenda deck, the Politics stack goes as you have it, and you're pic shows the 4-5 player board (all Activation/Dismissal costs are 1 less for 2-3 players on the other board).

Let me know how it goes!
 
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Jim Parkin
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Seth, I currently have the base game and Escalation, but not Exotica (yet!). I plan to playtest Oblivion with what I have. Would you prefer playtesting with the base game only, or should I also hold off until I grab Exotica, for the complete experience of balancing everything together?
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Seth Jaffee
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Annowme wrote:
Seth, I currently have the base game and Escalation, but not Exotica (yet!). I plan to playtest Oblivion with what I have. Would you prefer playtesting with the base game only, or should I also hold off until I grab Exotica, for the complete experience of balancing everything together?

I have not yet tried Oblivion along with either Escalation or Exotica. So far I'm just playing it by itself.

So it would be best to play with just the base game plus Oblivion.

After some of that, it might be good to combine other expansions with it. I will eventually have an "Oblivion Promo Pack" with stuff like Agendas that refer to Exotic planets and Asteroids, Exotic tech that deals with Agendas or Clout, and maybe some more directly interactive Agendas or something.
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Jim Parkin
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Okay. That's very helpful.
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Glenn Chambers

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That's the downside of independent expansions - combinatorial explosion in the test cases. Or, in this case in the mini-expansions.

Worst case, you'd have promo packs for E+X (which currently exists), E+O, X+O, and E+X+O, plus the results of mixing them in various combinations.

 
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Seth Jaffee
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spambait42c wrote:
That's the downside of independent expansions - combinatorial explosion in the test cases. Or, in this case in the mini-expansions.

Worst case, you'd have promo packs for E+X (which currently exists), E+O, X+O, and E+X+O, plus the results of mixing them in various combinations.


I intend to shortcut that by making some cards that are E+O and X+O (no need for E+X+O) and putting them into an Oblivion Promo Pack (to be included with all copies of Oblivion.

You see, the only purpose of that is to have things like an Agenda that gives you points for having the most Exotic planets, to parallel the ones that give points for having the most Advanced/Fertile/Metallic planets which are in the expansion.

That way when playing with Exotica, you aren't at a sort of disadvantage when it comes to the Agendas if you start with an Exotic/Asteroid start planet, or pursuing an Exotic or Asteroid strategy.

If you look at the Exotica Promo pack, you'll see it's stuff like a Peace Treaty for the Exotic stack, an Asteroid with a replenishing Fighter slot, stuff like that which makes sense with Escalation, but wouldn't make sense with base game + Exotica by itself.
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How are the Upcoming Agenda slots filled?

There is a new (to me) keyword 'Harvest'. This is the production role, correct?

Looking forward to trying this.
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Seth Jaffee
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jacko155 wrote:
How are the Upcoming Agenda slots filled?

Begin the game with all 5 slots filled from the deck (all the Active Agenda slots are empty).

Whenever a Politics role ends, if there's an Agenda in the rightmost Upcoming slot, return it to the bottom of the deck, then slide all Upcoming Agendas down as far as they go and refill the empty (leftmost) slot(s) from the top of the deck.

I'll update the initial thread with that info if I forgot to put it in there!

(Edit: It did say that during setup the Upcoming Agendas are dealt out, 1 per slot, and the Active slots start empty, but I totally forgot to explain the end of Politics role stuff -- thanks for the heads up! I think that info is on the board, so maybe people will see it anyway.)

Quote:
There is a new (to me) keyword 'Harvest'. This is the production role, correct?

Yes, "Harvest" is the same as "Produce" -- old terminology from the initial prototype

Quote:
Looking forward to trying this.

Looking forward to seeing how it goes
 
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Doug Bruch
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Printed this up over the weekend, hope to get it played on game night this week. We've only managed two games of Exotica so far, and the other guys wanted to play with E + X on the just the second game. So, hopefully I can convince them to try just Oblivion a few times before adding in the others.

I noticed the Politics cards have the instructions for the Agendas, but don't mention the Annex ability. My understanding of the Politics Role is that you take a Politics card and tell everyone what you intend to do with it. Then wait for everyone to follow or dissent, then boost if you want, and finally announce what you're actually doing.

So if you don't get enough for the Agenda you were after, but have enough to Annex, you can. Or if you were planning to Annex and didn't get enough help, you can activate a cheap Agenda.

What if you didn't get enough to do what you want, do you still have to do something? (I wanted to Annex, but I didn't get enough, and I don't really want to mess with the cheap Agendas right now...) On the other hand, if you get tons of support, can you do multiple things (7 icons => cheap Agenda + Annex)? I'm assuming the answer is no, but I thought I'd check.

Also checking to see if I understand the use of Clout tokens - you say to spend the token to follow a role, either Politics or whatever is on the other side. This means to me that they are returned to the pool of tokens, correct?

But in the case of following a politics role, or if Party Whip or Filibuster is in play, are the tokens used to follow the role returned to the bag/pile before the new ones are drawn, or after? If after, are all new tokens drawn before any are returned, or does each player draw and return before the next player decides to dissent or follow? This leads me to suggest that tokens are returned immediately, then draw new ones, to avoid confusion.

Agenda questions:

Agenda: +[INF] for Most [planet type / tech]
Question: Is that the same usage of the term Most as in Battlecruisers, where anyone tied for most can get the bonus at the end of his turn, or is it the single most? I lean toward the first, so that more players can be in favor of this agenda, but I wasn't sure of your intent.

Agenda: Tech Cards may not be played as Actions
Question 1: Does this limitation apply to face-up and in-hand tech cards? I'm guessing yes.
Question 2: Does the free tech get to ignore pre-reqs, like the Research-crippling Agenda, or do you need to satisfy the pre-reqs. If this was final, I would assume it doesn't get to ignore them, but since it's a work in progress I was wondering if you forgot to put it on there.

Agenda: + [INF] whenever you play a L1 tech card for its action.
Same question about pre-reqs for the free tech applies to this card.
Agenda: You may trade [POL] as if they were resources.
Question: Does this apply to all [POL] icons, or just ones that can be discarded, as on cards in hand or Clout tokens? For instance, if I have a planet with a [POL] or one of the Lobbyists, can I "trade" them? I'm guessing no, but wanted to point it out.

Agenda: ...Discard () to collect [INF] + any other resource
Question: Does this resource take up a slot? Everywhere else it is explicit, but here, where you may want to choose a resource you don't produce, it seems to take a slot. Again, intentional or oversight?

Prestige Planet: Action: Swap two upcoming or active Agendas
Question: Can you swap an Upcoming Agenda with and Active Agenda? I'm guessing the purpose of this is to move an active Agenda that you want to remain in play longer away from the end of the line (or the opposite for one you want to go away), and similarly for upcoming Agendas. Therefore I'm assuming the answer is no, but some people might intentionally mis-read that and argue that it says you can.

Finally, are the Agendas going to get titles? I discovered it's a little hard to refer to them! :}

Wow, didn't realize I had so much to say already, and I haven't even played yet!
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Seth Jaffee
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kesch wrote:
Printed this up over the weekend, hope to get it played on game night this week. We've only managed two games of Exotica so far, and the other guys wanted to play with E + X on the just the second game. So, hopefully I can convince them to try just Oblivion a few times before adding in the others.


Thanks for taking the time! I look forward to your feedback. I'll answer your questions below.

Oblivion is not yet ready to be tested in conjunction with other expansions, so combine them at your own risk (and it would probably be more helpful if you didn't combine them, at least not until after I get some feedback on Oblivion by itself).

Quote:
I noticed the Politics cards have the instructions for the Agendas, but don't mention the Annex ability. My understanding of the Politics Role is that you take a Politics card and tell everyone what you intend to do with it. Then wait for everyone to follow or dissent, then boost if you want, and finally announce what you're actually doing.

The Annex ability is something I've JUST added to the expansion, and I didn't update the Politics cards (or board) to list them.

The intent is that you need not commit to what you're doing until after everyone has followed/dissented. You may wish to tell people (or lie to them) about your plans in order to solicit their support, but nothing you say is binding until all players have followed/dissented and you have boosted as much as you're going to boost.

Then you pick up to 1 of the options you can afford and do it.

Quote:
So if you don't get enough for the Agenda you were after, but have enough to Annex, you can. Or if you were planning to Annex and didn't get enough help, you can activate a cheap Agenda.

Yes, but you are not obligated to telegraph your intent.

Also, note that you play LAST in this role (unlike other roles), so you can see how much help you get before you decide how many of your own cards to contribute.

Quote:
What if you didn't get enough to do what you want, do you still have to do something? (I wanted to Annex, but I didn't get enough, and I don't really want to mess with the cheap Agendas right now...) On the other hand, if you get tons of support, can you do multiple things (7 icons => cheap Agenda + Annex)? I'm assuming the answer is no, but I thought I'd check.

In Eminent Domain you never HAVE to do anything. You could call a Research role, then simply not buy a tech card. It's rarely a good idea, but that's just how it works.

With the politics role you COULD legitimately find yourself wanting say 4 symbols, and only able to generate 3 on your own, so you call Politics and hope someone will follow -- but nobody does, so you may decide not to do anything after all.

Note however that no matter what, at the end of the Politics role, the right most (cheapest) Upcoming Agenda is cycled to the bottom of the deck.

Quote:
Also checking to see if I understand the use of Clout tokens - you say to spend the token to follow a role, either Politics or whatever is on the other side. This means to me that they are returned to the pool of tokens, correct?

Almost. Discard the tokens into a discard pile. If the bag ever runs out, then return the discard pile to the bag.

Quote:
But in the case of following a politics role, or if Party Whip or Filibuster is in play, are the tokens used to follow the role returned to the bag/pile before the new ones are drawn, or after? If after, are all new tokens drawn before any are returned, or does each player draw and return before the next player decides to dissent or follow? This leads me to suggest that tokens are returned immediately, then draw new ones, to avoid confusion.

This is one main reason for "discard" rather than "return to bag".

Quote:
Agenda questions:

Agenda: +[INF] for Most [planet type / tech]
Question: Is that the same usage of the term Most as in Battlecruisers, where anyone tied for most can get the bonus at the end of his turn, or is it the single most? I lean toward the first, so that more players can be in favor of this agenda, but I wasn't sure of your intent.

Indeed, if you are tied for the most at the end of your turn, then you do have the most, and you do get the INF.

Quote:
Agenda: Tech Cards may not be played as Actions
Question 1: Does this limitation apply to face-up and in-hand tech cards? I'm guessing yes.

Yes. This Agenda prevents players from using tech cards as an action, whether that's from hand, or from an action in play.

Note that the Political Influence tile is not a tech card, so this Agenda does not shut down those actions (do you think it should? Let me know after playing).
Quote:
Question 2: Does the free tech get to ignore pre-reqs, like the Research-crippling Agenda, or do you need to satisfy the pre-reqs. If this was final, I would assume it doesn't get to ignore them, but since it's a work in progress I was wondering if you forgot to put it on there.

Good question. I believe that's not an error, you don't get to ignore pre-req's unless it says so.

After playing, let me know if you think any of the immediate Agenda effects are too strong or too weak.

Quote:
Agenda: + [INF] whenever you play a L1 tech card for its action.
Same question about pre-reqs for the free tech applies to this card.

Same answer

Quote:
Agenda: You may trade [POL] as if they were resources.
Question: Does this apply to all [POL] icons, or just ones that can be discarded, as on cards in hand or Clout tokens? For instance, if I have a planet with a [POL] or one of the Lobbyists, can I "trade" them? I'm guessing no, but wanted to point it out.

Good question. The intent of that Agenda was to allow you to trade Clout tokens (not just any POL icon). I'm not a professional graphic designer, but that's why the POL icon is in a circle (that's a picture of a clout token)... otherwise it would have been an in-line icon

Quote:
Agenda: ...Discard () to collect [INF] + any other resource
Question: Does this resource take up a slot? Everywhere else it is explicit, but here, where you may want to choose a resource you don't produce, it seems to take a slot. Again, intentional or oversight?

The only time a resource takes up a slot is if you "produce" it. If you "collect" a resource, then you just take it into your Empire (like when you collect Fighters).

I will make a note to explain that in the rules in a section about "collecting resources" because until now, there was no such thing as a resource that wasn't on a slot!

Quote:
Prestige Planet: Action: Swap two upcoming or active Agendas
Question: Can you swap an Upcoming Agenda with and Active Agenda? I'm guessing the purpose of this is to move an active Agenda that you want to remain in play longer away from the end of the line (or the opposite for one you want to go away), and similarly for upcoming Agendas. Therefore I'm assuming the answer is no, but some people might intentionally mis-read that and argue that it says you can.

No, you can EITHER swap two Upcoming Agendas OR two Active Agendas. You cannot use this effect to bring a new Agenda into play or remove one.

Quote:
Finally, are the Agendas going to get titles? I discovered it's a little hard to refer to them! :}

I would like that, and it would be a great help if you happen to come up with some as you play -- go ahead and write them on the cards like this is a legacy game or something

Quote:
Wow, didn't realize I had so much to say already, and I haven't even played yet!

Hopefully I've fully answered all your questions! I very much look forward to your plays. Make sure and report back here...

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Doug Bruch
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Thanks for your responses! I think I've got a good handle on how it's *supposed* to play.

sedjtroll wrote:
Oblivion is not yet ready to be tested in conjunction with other expansions, so combine them at your own risk (and it would probably be more helpful if you didn't combine them, at least not until after I get some feedback on Oblivion by itself).

Good to know.

sedjtroll wrote:
kesch wrote:
What if you didn't get enough to do what you want, do you still have to do something? (I wanted to Annex, but I didn't get enough, and I don't really want to mess with the cheap Agendas right now...) On the other hand, if you get tons of support, can you do multiple things (7 icons => cheap Agenda + Annex)? I'm assuming the answer is no, but I thought I'd check.

In Eminent Domain you never HAVE to do anything. You could call a Research role, then simply not buy a tech card. It's rarely a good idea, but that's just how it works.

With the politics role you COULD legitimately find yourself wanting say 4 symbols, and only able to generate 3 on your own, so you call Politics and hope someone will follow -- but nobody does, so you may decide not to do anything after all.

Thanks for clarifying that you need not do anything if you don't want to, but you didn't quite get to the second part: I'm assuming you cannot activate multiple agendas, just as you cannot purchase multiple techs, even if you have enough symbols to do so.

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Note however that no matter what, at the end of the Politics role, the right most (cheapest) Upcoming Agenda is cycled to the bottom of the deck.

Didn't quite get to asking about this, but it was on my mind.goo

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Also checking to see if I understand the use of Clout tokens - you say to spend the token to follow a role, either Politics or whatever is on the other side. This means to me that they are returned to the pool of tokens, correct?

Almost. Discard the tokens into a discard pile. If the bag ever runs out, then return the discard pile to the bag.

Ahh, I see. Makes much more sense. I hadn't noticed any mention of a 'token discard pile' previously.

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Agenda: You may trade [POL] as if they were resources.
Question: Does this apply to all [POL] icons, or just ones that can be discarded, as on cards in hand or Clout tokens? For instance, if I have a planet with a [POL] or one of the Lobbyists, can I "trade" them? I'm guessing no, but wanted to point it out.

Good question. The intent of that Agenda was to allow you to trade Clout tokens (not just any POL icon). I'm not a professional graphic designer, but that's why the POL icon is in a circle (that's a picture of a clout token)... otherwise it would have been an in-line icon

Actually, it was quite clear that it applied to the Clout tokens, good job! I just wasn't sure it I could use other POL icons, such as on cards in hand, or permanent symbols on planets or techs. Trading (by discarding) cards in hand that have the symbol, like a basic Politics card or the 6 new techs, makes sense to me, but not quite clear if it's allowed. On the other hand, it seems a little odd to trade a permanent symbol, as on the new advanced/metallic/fertile planets, or on the two Lobbyist techs, for INF as if they were resources.

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Agenda: ...Discard () to collect [INF] + any other resource
Question: Does this resource take up a slot? Everywhere else it is explicit, but here, where you may want to choose a resource you don't produce, it seems to take a slot. Again, intentional or oversight?

The only time a resource takes up a slot is if you "produce" it. If you "collect" a resource, then you just take it into your Empire (like when you collect Fighters).

I will make a note to explain that in the rules in a section about "collecting resources" because until now, there was no such thing as a resource that wasn't on a slot!

That was pretty clear to me, but this Agenda didn't mention it, whereas on all the other instances of "collect a resource" it was explicit. Defining the "Collect" keyword would mean simplifying the text on all the other cards, but without it this card is ambiguous.

This Agenda says Collect, with no indication that it doesn't require a slot.
The Political Influence cards say Trade, and say no slot required.
Wheel and Deal tech says Trade, and says no slot required.
The two Agendas affecting the Harvest role say Produce, but that they don't require slots.
Farming Subsidy tech says Produce, which suggests slots are required.

Just trying to help improve things here. Hope it comes off as friendly criticism.
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Finally, are the Agendas going to get titles? I discovered it's a little hard to refer to them! :}

I would like that, and it would be a great help if you happen to come up with some as you play -- go ahead and write them on the cards like this is a legacy game or something

I'll see if we can come up with anything...

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Hopefully I've fully answered all your questions! I very much look forward to your plays. Make sure and report back here...


Again, thank you for all your confirmation and/or clarification responses. Need to find more time to play!!!
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kesch wrote:
kesch wrote:
...On the other hand, if you get tons of support, can you do multiple things (7 icons => cheap Agenda + Annex)? I'm assuming the answer is no, but I thought I'd check.

Thanks for clarifying that you need not do anything if you don't want to, but you didn't quite get to the second part: I'm assuming you cannot activate multiple agendas, just as you cannot purchase multiple techs, even if you have enough symbols to do so.

Oops, I missed that one!

No, you cannot do multiple things. You may do ONE of the options: Activate 1 Agenda, Dismiss 1 Agenda, or Annex 1 Planet.

kesch wrote:
sedjtroll wrote:
kesch wrote:
Agenda: You may trade [POL] as if they were resources.
Question: Does this apply to all [POL] icons, or just ones that can be discarded, as on cards in hand or Clout tokens? For instance, if I have a planet with a [POL] or one of the Lobbyists, can I "trade" them? I'm guessing no, but wanted to point it out.

Good question. The intent of that Agenda was to allow you to trade Clout tokens (not just any POL icon). I'm not a professional graphic designer, but that's why the POL icon is in a circle (that's a picture of a clout token)... otherwise it would have been an in-line icon

Actually, it was quite clear that it applied to the Clout tokens, good job! I just wasn't sure it I could use other POL icons, such as on cards in hand, or permanent symbols on planets or techs. Trading (by discarding) cards in hand that have the symbol, like a basic Politics card or the 6 new techs, makes sense to me, but not quite clear if it's allowed. On the other hand, it seems a little odd to trade a permanent symbol, as on the new advanced/metallic/fertile planets, or on the two Lobbyist techs, for INF as if they were resources.

In case my earlier response was not clear, that Agenda only allows you to trade Clout tokens, NOT other POL symbols -- permanent or otherwise.

Re-reading my response I realized I might have been ambiguous there

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sedjtroll wrote:
...I will make a note to explain that in the rules in a section about "collecting resources" because until now, there was no such thing as a resource that wasn't on a slot!

That was pretty clear to me, but this Agenda didn't mention it, whereas on all the other instances of "collect a resource" it was explicit. Defining the "Collect" keyword would mean simplifying the text on all the other cards, but without it this card is ambiguous.

This Agenda says Collect, with no indication that it doesn't require a slot.
The Political Influence cards say Trade, and say no slot required.
Wheel and Deal tech says Trade, and says no slot required.
The two Agendas affecting the Harvest role say Produce, but that they don't require slots.
Farming Subsidy tech says Produce, which suggests slots are required.

Hmm... it sounds like I was relatively consistent then: I only made it explicit when I didn't use the word "collect" I should definitely make that a defined keyword. Then those 2 Agendas that affect the Harvest role could just say "collect".

Indeed, for Farming Subsidy you would need slots. So it looks like I just need to change the terms on those 2 Agendas from "produce" to "collect" (and then firmly define "collect" and how it differs from "produce").

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Just trying to help improve things here. Hope it comes off as friendly criticism.

Very helpful, thanks!
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Two players, base game, one playing mostly colonize/research.

The Politics role works well.

Following a Politics role has some important decision making without complete information. Does one follow and boost your opponent's role giving more choices for upcoming agendas? Maybe he already are enough Politics for his plans so it is an opportunity to grab a few clout tokens. Sometimes one is at a loss by following the Politics role. Following may allow the leader to save a clout token, giving you a clout token and you lose a card by not dissenting. Another good reason to follow is to allow one to trade in a clout token for another type.

The clout tokens are very useful. They are essentially an extra card slot that can be used when required, also acting as a Political threat. One can quickly remove a new active agenda using the clout tokens. A player with a strong Politics strategy can force the opponent to spend his clout tokens by activating many agendas.

The starting upcoming agendas can dictate a strategy. One game had the "-2 Military" agenda in the upcoming 2 spot. Obviously a military strategy would work well for a while since it could not be removed for a few turns at least.

Sometimes there were no agendas that would dictate a strategy and, then, no one would use the Politics role. Even though the agendas don't cycle much in this situation eventually some will be activated that will affect the game as global permanents never to be removed.

In our two player games the active agendas didn't cycle out much, which was fine.

If one player is using the Politics strategy it appears that the other player had to get involved to some degree although in one game a Military/Politics strategy was attempted but was crushed by Colonize/Research. The Military was too weak and the Politics didn't help enough.

The agendas that have "2 resources >> 3VP + clout token" were great at that beginning of the game if one had the right planets. At some point they become less valuable when every player can use them equally well. One game was almost won with only three planets.

Having an incentive on the agenda for activating it made the Politics role more likely to be used.

Having the upcoming 2 spot cycle to the bottom of the deck seems a bit odd but there were times when an agenda was activated just to remove the upcoming 2 spot. It is odd because 2 agendas are put into upcoming slots moving the other agendas over by two spots. It does move the game along. Perhaps the upcoming 2 spot can be removed as an action or only as a non-activating Politics role.

We didn't do much annexing. Since one needs an action on a planet, agenda or tech to annex, early strategies involved Colonize or Military and eventually it was just as easy to colonize or attack rather than annex. We did not play a game where both players were playing Politics as the primary strategy.

The Political Influence card has a useful action. Never does the action phase need to be skipped.

Two prestige planets has a centered Politics icon with a halo. We are not sure how these function.

This expansion is a good mechanism for putting global permanents into play. In a three+ player game it would probably be even more fun having temporary allies working together.



 
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Ooh... feedback!

Thank you for taking the time to print and play Oblivion! It sounds like the Politics portion of the expansion worked as intended. Did you enjoy it? how about the other new aspects (tech cards, planets)?

I will respond to some of your comments below.

jacko155 wrote:
Following a Politics role has some important decision making without complete information. Does one follow and boost your opponent's role giving more choices for upcoming agendas? Maybe he already are enough Politics for his plans so it is an opportunity to grab a few clout tokens. Sometimes one is at a loss by following the Politics role. Following may allow the leader to save a clout token, giving you a clout token and you lose a card by not dissenting. Another good reason to follow is to allow one to trade in a clout token for another type.

All of this was what I intended, so... so far so good!

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The starting upcoming agendas can dictate a strategy. One game had the "-2 Military" agenda in the upcoming 2 spot. Obviously a military strategy would work well for a while since it could not be removed for a few turns at least.

Sometimes there were no agendas that would dictate a strategy and, then, no one would use the Politics role. Even though the agendas don't cycle much in this situation eventually some will be activated that will affect the game as global permanents never to be removed.

Again, intended... Sometimes the Agendas will have a bigger effect on the game than other times (depending on if or how many players use it)

Did you like how the Agendas affected the game?

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Having an incentive on the agenda for activating it made the Politics role more likely to be used.

I definitely fond this to be true - nobody wants to waste their turn action to activate a global effect. So I added a lot of incentives to activate them. Sounds like that worked OK... were there any that still felt like you'd never want to activate them? Or any that were too much of a no-brainer?

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Having the upcoming 2 spot cycle to the bottom of the deck seems a bit odd but there were times when an agenda was activated just to remove the upcoming 2 spot. It is odd because 2 agendas are put into upcoming slots moving the other agendas over by two spots. It does move the game along. Perhaps the upcoming 2 spot can be removed as an action or only as a non-activating Politics role.

Anytime you have a card row like this, there eds to be a way to keep it from getting stale. My attempt was to remove the cheapest one after each Politics role. So that if an undesirable Agenda ends up in the row, it'll eventually make it's way to the cheapest slot and then back to the deck.

So far I've been happy with it, but it sounds like you didn't care for that mechanism? I'd like to keep it simple, just a way to keep the Upcoming Agendas from getting stale (and I'd rather not leave it to players spending actions to do that, or they won't bother)

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We didn't do much annexing. Since one needs an action on a planet, agenda or tech to annex, early strategies involved Colonize or Military and eventually it was just as easy to colonize or attack rather than annex. We did not play a game where both players were playing Politics as the primary strategy.

I figure that for the most part, Annexing planets will be a side thing -- not a common primary way to flip planets over. But I like the idea of
a Politics heavy player being able to use that option.

Is it worth it? I JUST added Annexing, and I could see leaving it out, but it seems to fit well into the game.

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Two prestige planets has a centered Politics icon with a halo. We are not sure how these function.

These are Replenishing Clout Tokens, and they function like the Replenishing Fighters in Escalation or the Replenishing Crystal in Exotica...

When that planet comes into play and at the beginning of each of your turns, if the Replenishing slot is empty, fill it up. In this case, you'd fill it with a Clout token. You can spend that clout token as if it's yours, and if you do, it'll be replaced next turn.

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This expansion is a good mechanism for putting global permanents into play. In a three+ player game it would probably be even more fun having temporary allies working together.

I'd love to hear comments if you do play with 3+, or if you play any further with any player count.

Thanks again for the feedback!
 
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Posted a session report: Eminent Domain: Oblivion -- PnP Session
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Quirkle game pieces can be used as Clout tokens. All 6 colours are represented and they are already in a bag.
 
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EMDO gameplay alows a player to choose one of several paths to victory, such as Colonize/Research, Colonize/Trade etc. The first two expansions do not require a player to use any of the new mechanisms. Warfare and Mining can be ignored. In Oblivion, can Politics be ignored?

Example: The agenda with the action "Discard 'Iron" + ? and collect three vp and a clout" has started the game in the 2 upcoming agenda space. My starting planet "Piedra Seca" had an iron resource slot. My first surveyed planet had another iron resource slot. I quickly had that agenda in play with iron+iron along with two metallic planets. This allowed me to collect vps quickly. It accelerated if I drew a production clout token.

Is the other player expected to leave this agenda in the 6 space for the duration of the game? If the opponent had no plans for the Politics role there would be no way to remove the agenda.

This would apply less to the +2/-2 Military or Colonize agendas because any player could change their strategy in response.

IMO, forcing all players to play Politics seems totally appropriate for the theme. "Don't play the political game at your own peril.".

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jacko155 wrote:
EMDO gameplay alows a player to choose one of several paths to victory, such as Colonize/Research, Colonize/Trade etc. The first two expansions do not require a player to use any of the new mechanisms. Warfare and Mining can be ignored. In Oblivion, can Politics be ignored?

Example: The agenda with the action "Discard 'Iron" + ? and collect three vp and a clout" has started the game in the 2 upcoming agenda space. My starting planet "Piedra Seca" had an iron resource slot. My first surveyed planet had another iron resource slot. I quickly had that agenda in play with iron+iron along with two metallic planets. This allowed me to collect vps quickly. It accelerated if I drew a production clout token.

Is the other player expected to leave this agenda in the 6 space for the duration of the game? If the opponent had no plans for the Politics role there would be no way to remove the agenda.

This would apply less to the +2/-2 Military or Colonize agendas because any player could change their strategy in response.

IMO, forcing all players to play Politics seems totally appropriate for the theme. "Don't play the political game at your own peril.".


Like everything in EmDo, players can utilize it or not as they see fit.

In your example, a player that has non-iron producing planets could use the action on their political influence tile in order to obtain Iron and then use that Iron with the Agenda's action to score points. It's a little less efficient, but that's your benefit from having put that Agenda into play.

The opponent has other options as well though. They could...
* collect a few Clout tokens then just call Politics once to dismiss that Agenda
* Survey for Iron producing planets in order to take advantage of that Agenda
* Activate a different Agenda that helps them more than it helps you (thereby making yours easier to dismiss)
* Ignore your Agenda and compete with you by following their own strategy

At least, that's my intent. Let me know if you feel that comes through or not.
 
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jacko155 wrote:
Quirkle game pieces can be used as Clout tokens. All 6 colours are represented and they are already in a bag.

Oh, neat! I don't own Qwirkle, and I already made prototype pieces, but this is great advice for anyone wanting to PnP Oblivion more easily!
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In our 5-player game, the player who ignored Politics and did his usual Warfare only strategy (which works fairly well in Escalation with Scenarios) came in dead last. However, nobody else was doing Warfare, and we didn't adjust the Agendas correctly when Annexing. All the Survey related Agendas we did get out helped him as much as anyone, he just couldn't complete with all the Politics roles building on each other.
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