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Mansions of Madness» Forums » Rules

Subject: Green eyed boy 1C isn't too strong against investigators? rss

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Máté Kovács
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I mean the keeper wins, if one investigator kills another. I, as a keeper, give the Loss of will card to the strongest character, which shot the other at the third event card. And the keeper won immediately. So that's it? If the killed investigator does not die then, he could counter attack, but the the keeper wins again, cause an investigator killed another?

Isn't this silly? I mean there is an evil investigator, the other investigators can't kill him, cause in that case the keeper wins as well. I don't get it.
 
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Roberta Yang
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The evil investigator isn't considered an investigator anymore. Killing the traitor doesn't fulfill the keeper's win condition. It's been years so I can't remember where that rule is stated, but I know it exists.

It's still a broken objective because the keeper doesn't have to play Loss of Will until the start of an investigator's turn when that investigator is lined up to headshot another investigator. You can't kill the traitor first because the traitor doesn't even exist until they're ready to strike. Even if the investigators split up to prevent this, the mansions's tree structure geometry means that the keeper can just pick an investigator to turn traitor and corner another investigator.
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Máté Kovács
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Oh, that is true. Damm, this game is still hard.
 
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Máté Kovács
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My other problem with this scenario, that it takes a lot of time to setup and play, but gives way too less.
What can the keeper do? Take a lot of cards, and trying to find the Loss of Will. He can also create a lot of witches for a round.

Witches are nice obstacles in the game, but way to boring after a while. Always witch fight again and again. Damm.

Not sure I want to play this scenario again, even I never tried 1A or 1B
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Roberta Yang
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Yeah, that's my feeling on Green-Eyed Boy too. Even if you overlook the more broken elements, there's just not a lot happening, the keeper tends to win through sheer attrition, and Popup Witches are really boring monsters to fight because it's never really worth doing anything about them.
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Nicola Zee
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salty53 wrote:
Yeah, that's my feeling on Green-Eyed Boy too. Even if you overlook the more broken elements, there's just not a lot happening, the keeper tends to win through sheer attrition, and Popup Witches are really boring monsters to fight because it's never really worth doing anything about them.

Agreed. I think you hit the nail on the head in a previous posting. It's best played as an experience - not as a balanced game. It's just not worth playing more than once or maybe twice.

I'd add to this...
The scenario is not a complete waste. After playing it sleeve the cards used in the scenario and use them for one of the fan written scenarios (e.g. the Island of Dagon)
 
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Máté Kovács
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It is such a shame, that this scenario doesn't work.
I mean, when I looked on the map, I sad, wow, such a great mansion.

Then the story went on, dead butler, then another victim killed by a monster. I felt this is a great horror story.

Then, in the second half, me as a keeper, all I did was to create witches, farm cards, and so on. I felt myself stupid to do this.

For the record, I tried to be easy on with the investigators, cause I heard that this is almost unwinnable. I placed the clues not so far from each other, and I didn't hurt them that much.

Then I have found the Loss of Will card, gave it to the strongest investigator, and I won in a second.
I don't like the traitor mechanism here. Needs some fix. For instance, the traitor investigator must do a Willpower test at the start of his turn, modified somehow with his sanity. If he pass, he is good. If he fails, he is evil for one round. Then he test it again.

Maybe I will play this again after a time, but now I will head to the fanmade scenarios too.
 
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Roberta Yang
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Don't have a player flip back and forth between teams every turn; that opens a can of worms about the player's win condition and what actions they should take toward achieving it. You'd need to have the keeper control that investigator during the "evil" turns, but taking away a player's only character on a regular basis isn't terribly fun.

The core problem with the traitor mechanic here is that there is no hidden sabotage, and therefore no paranoia.

Corey Konieczka's previous game, Battlestar Galactica, had a great traitor mechanic. The skill check mechanic gives hidden traitors a chance to commit sabotage without making it immediately obvious who committed the sabotage, or indeed whether sabotage was committed at all. Players also sometimes get private choices (like "look at the top card of the deck and put it on the top or bottom without revealing it"), and have private information to withhold like the cards in their hand. This creates an atmosphere of suspicion and paranoia where the players see that treason is probably being committed right in front of them, but they can't immediately pin down the culprit.

But in Mansions of Madness, investigators never have private information or opportunities to do anything in secret. Everything they do is face-up on the table. A traitorous investigator can't ever undermine their own team from the shadows; their only options are "play perfectly good" and "reveal you're evil, then play perfectly evil". (Which, in turn, means the keeper has no need to ever turn an investigator traitor before it's time to play perfectly evil.)

The core game mechanics simply don't support a hidden traitor; rules changes and/or entirely new systems would need to be added to the game to make it work. At most it supports a Betrayal at House on the Hill style traitor, but without the suspicion of who the hidden traitor is, what's the point of having a traitor at all? Just summon a named humanoid.

The Stars Aligned scenario special rules in Call of the Wild might provide an interesting starting point. In that scenario, investigator inventories are hidden information, and investigators can bury cards from their inventories face-down in rooms. This gives each investigator both private information and an action they can take in partial secrecy. There's a potential germ of a traitor scenario in there somewhere.
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