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Subject: A Friendly Word for New Members of the Guild! rss

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Jason Hunt
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Thanks for this post Rev.

I love the 1-Player Guild, It is my happy place in the internet. We don't always agree about things, life would pretty boring if we did, but we usually find a mature a sensible way to come to terms with one another eventually, even if some furniture gets broken in the process.

Thank you all for making this such a wonderful haven for all of us introverts who may otherwise have trouble finding a place where they feel accepted.
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Chris Grable
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Rev -

Well said. I've been hanging out around bgg for a couple years now and mostly lurking round the 1pg for just this year really. I have seen good and bad around the site and honestly; I have been so very impressed by the welcoming and open attitude here in the 1pg.

Everyone is so very supportive and friendly. Distinct lack of trolls. Great guild.
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Judy Krauss
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Osyrn wrote:
Well said Rev!

Welcome to all the new members! Whether you decide to lurk in the shadows of the guild (like I did for quite a while ) or you become active on a daily basis, I gotta agree with others here, this is the friendliest place on the Internet!

"C'mon in boys, the water is fine!"

Not a boy. Also, it's not always friendly here, especially if not male. Although Albert has done a good job of moderating when necessary.

It's fine that so many people here think that this is a great, friendly, welcoming guild. And, it usually is. But the point of the thread is that it can easily change by ignoring (or condoning) sexist, racist, and other bigoted and demeaning comments because you (the generic "you" -- not you in particular) think they are funny or at least not offensive to you, and also by assuming that everyone here is of a particular type -- male, for example.
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Jude wrote:
Osyrn wrote:
Well said Rev!

Welcome to all the new members! Whether you decide to lurk in the shadows of the guild (like I did for quite a while ) or you become active on a daily basis, I gotta agree with others here, this is the friendliest place on the Internet!

"C'mon in boys, the water is fine!"

Not a boy. Also, it's not always friendly here, especially if not male. Although Albert has done a good job of moderating when necessary.

It's fine that so many people here think that this is a great, friendly, welcoming guild. And, it usually is. But the point of the thread is that it can easily change by ignoring (or condoning) sexist, racist, and other bigoted and demeaning comments because you (the generic "you" -- not you in particular) think they are funny or at least not offensive to you, and also by assuming that everyone here is of a particular type -- male, for example.

An example being, my comment, reacting to the gears of war nerd rage thing, the just don't thing, it took a day or two for my comment to get acknowledged or validated, and pretty swiftly after that, it was said thst, oh, he was just being funny. That may be, but it can also easily come across, what he did, especially as the first comment after the initial post, as being completely contrary to what that initial post was saying. And I felt the, oh, he was just being funny, after a person or two had finally acknowledged me, was like the person I am quoting above, I believe x implies.

Saying it was just being funny can be used to invalidate or dismiss. I don't want this to bo a super touchy place, I even said in my comment the struggle is real, I acknowledged his thing.

An acknowledgement of how, the person was just being funny, can be used to push something or someone down or away . . . . Maybe the person above meant that the humor itself is a way to make things less friendly. I really hate that it sounds like I am jumping on the guy. It's just an example of how things might sound like a good idea . . . I don't know.

It could be funny to some people, but sometimes people can hide passive aggressive stuff under the humor label, which I am not saying he was doing, but his comment could be read either way. I do think some people use humor this way, though.

The effect can often be that people are seen and told, lighten up, don't be sourpuss. Anyway, I have gone on. And have risked far too much. I am sorry for any offense.
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Eldritch Wonder wrote:
Thanks for this post Rev.

I love the 1-Player Guild, It is my happy place in the internet. We don't always agree about things, life would pretty boring if we did, but we usually find a mature a sensible way to come to terms with one another eventually, even if some furniture gets broken in the process.

Thank you all for making this such a wonderful haven for all of us introverts who may otherwise have trouble finding a place where they feel accepted.

...and even us peculiar extroverts in this hobby laugh
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sarebear62 wrote:
Jude wrote:
Osyrn wrote:
Well said Rev!

Welcome to all the new members! Whether you decide to lurk in the shadows of the guild (like I did for quite a while ) or you become active on a daily basis, I gotta agree with others here, this is the friendliest place on the Internet!

"C'mon in boys, the water is fine!"

Not a boy. Also, it's not always friendly here, especially if not male. Although Albert has done a good job of moderating when necessary.

It's fine that so many people here think that this is a great, friendly, welcoming guild. And, it usually is. But the point of the thread is that it can easily change by ignoring (or condoning) sexist, racist, and other bigoted and demeaning comments because you (the generic "you" -- not you in particular) think they are funny or at least not offensive to you, and also by assuming that everyone here is of a particular type -- male, for example.

An example being, my comment, reacting to the gears of war nerd rage thing, the just don't thing, it took a day or two for my comment to get acknowledged or validated, and pretty swiftly after that, it was said thst, oh, he was just being funny. That may be, but it can also easily come across, what he did, especially as the first comment after the initial post, as being completely contrary to what that initial post was saying. And I felt the, oh, he was just being funny, after a person or two had finally acknowledged me, was like the person I am quoting above, I believe x implies.

Saying it was just being funny can be used to invalidate or dismiss. I don't want this to bo a super touchy place, I even said in my comment the struggle is real, I acknowledged his thing.

An acknowledgement of how, the person was just being funny, can be used to push something or someone down or away . . . . Maybe the person above meant that the humor itself is a way to make things less friendly. I really hate that it sounds like I am jumping on the guy. It's just an example of how things might sound like a good idea . . . I don't know.

It could be funny to some people, but sometimes people can hide passive aggressive stuff under the humor label, which I am not saying he was doing, but his comment could be read either way. I do think some people use humor this way, though.

The effect can often be that people are seen and told, lighten up, don't be sourpuss. Anyway, I have gone on. And have risked far too much. I am sorry for any offense.

It's good you're here and part of the 1PG community, sarebear

I was confused about what tone you were going for in your initial post. I couldn't tell if you were playing along with Justin's humor or bothered by it. Hence the reason I (and perhaps others) did not respond quickly. Certainly not through any negative feelings towards you!

Hope to keep seeing you around!

Josh
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sarebear62 wrote:
Jude wrote:
Osyrn wrote:
Well said Rev!

Welcome to all the new members! Whether you decide to lurk in the shadows of the guild (like I did for quite a while ) or you become active on a daily basis, I gotta agree with others here, this is the friendliest place on the Internet!

"C'mon in boys, the water is fine!"

Not a boy. Also, it's not always friendly here, especially if not male. Although Albert has done a good job of moderating when necessary.

It's fine that so many people here think that this is a great, friendly, welcoming guild. And, it usually is. But the point of the thread is that it can easily change by ignoring (or condoning) sexist, racist, and other bigoted and demeaning comments because you (the generic "you" -- not you in particular) think they are funny or at least not offensive to you, and also by assuming that everyone here is of a particular type -- male, for example.

An example being, my comment, reacting to the gears of war nerd rage thing, the just don't thing, it took a day or two for my comment to get acknowledged or validated, and pretty swiftly after that, it was said thst, oh, he was just being funny. That may be, but it can also easily come across, what he did, especially as the first comment after the initial post, as being completely contrary to what that initial post was saying. And I felt the, oh, he was just being funny, after a person or two had finally acknowledged me, was like the person I am quoting above, I believe x implies.

Saying it was just being funny can be used to invalidate or dismiss. I don't want this to bo a super touchy place, I even said in my comment the struggle is real, I acknowledged his thing.

An acknowledgement of how, the person was just being funny, can be used to push something or someone down or away . . . . Maybe the person above meant that the humor itself is a way to make things less friendly. I really hate that it sounds like I am jumping on the guy. It's just an example of how things might sound like a good idea . . . I don't know.

It could be funny to some people, but sometimes people can hide passive aggressive stuff under the humor label, which I am not saying he was doing, but his comment could be read either way. I do think some people use humor this way, though.

The effect can often be that people are seen and told, lighten up, don't be sourpuss. Anyway, I have gone on. And have risked far too much. I am sorry for any offense.

Before I say anything, I'll say this: We're cool Sara... the comments to follow are seated in absolutely ZERO frustration. I just want to clear the air.

I didn't announce it here simply because I didn't want to draw attention to myself, but my house flooded last weekend and I've been working like a dog all week to try and get the repairs going. Thus, my presence around here has been spotty at best. I'd disappear entirely, but honestly, this place includes quite a few people I would consider my day-to-day friends so I WANT to be here to get a little break.

So that's the explanation of why I haven't responded yet. So now... I'll respond!

As far as my comment, I can see how it might be construed a negative way. I've made "negative" comments in jest toward Gears criticisms in the past. Sometimes it works... sometimes it falls flat. Thing is, dry humor is what I engage in more often than not. Some of my favorite shows involve the humor of discomfort (see my multitude of Office references around the guild for example). I can't ignore this about myself. The occasional pitfall is being misunderstood. I can live with that.

No one is more sensitive... no wait, I'm not going to say that because it's probably not true. I feel as though I am appropriately and sometimes exceedingly sensitive to the difficulties of text communication. I can assure you that I have never and will never say anything that is intended to be inflammatory, dismissive, or offensive. What I can't do, however, is walk on eggshells. When Rev posted this topic, my natural response was to make a light-hearted comment that I knew many in the guild would "get". I knew that it would be mixed in with a bunch of other explicitly supportive comments to the post as well.

It's a bit of an odd position to find myself in really. And Sara, please don't read this as ANY sort of criticism of your response. I completely get where you're coming from. I'm a major introvert that often struggles with situational communication. I do fine most of the time, but I have been guilty MANY times in real life of saying the wrong thing at the wrong time.

So that's that. Hopefully I've clarified my position and maybe offered a glimpse for people who don't know me as well what goes on in my brain while writing a post.
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joestin wrote:
my house flooded last weekend and I've been working like a dog all week to try and get the repairs going.

Geesh... I can barely coordinate getting my oil changed. Hang in there, Justin.
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Jude wrote:
Osyrn wrote:
Well said Rev!

Welcome to all the new members! Whether you decide to lurk in the shadows of the guild (like I did for quite a while ) or you become active on a daily basis, I gotta agree with others here, this is the friendliest place on the Internet!

"C'mon in boys, the water is fine!"

Not a boy. Also, it's not always friendly here, especially if not male. Although Albert has done a good job of moderating when necessary.

It's fine that so many people here think that this is a great, friendly, welcoming guild. And, it usually is. But the point of the thread is that it can easily change by ignoring (or condoning) sexist, racist, and other bigoted and demeaning comments because you (the generic "you" -- not you in particular) think they are funny or at least not offensive to you, and also by assuming that everyone here is of a particular type -- male, for example.

Totally agree Judy. I was certainly not condoning bad behavior nor assuming everyone here was of a particular type with the quote. I was just quoting "Oh Brother Where Art Thou" (and used the subsequent picture) to say "welcome to all the new members, come on in and join a great group and have some fun."

I meant no offense by it and I'm sorry to hear offense was taken. That wasn't my intent.
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joestin wrote:
The nerd rage rule is a tough one. I've seen people actually post negative things about Gears of War: The Board Game.

Don't put me in that position people. Just don't.

I don't have nerd rage about this game. Just excessive cognitive dissonance that the voice actor for Marcus Fenix is also Bender...

So... much... brain... hurty... words... no... worky
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joestin wrote:
What I can't do, however, is walk on eggshells. When Rev posted this topic, my natural response was to make a light-hearted comment that I knew many in the guild would "get". I knew that it would be mixed in with a bunch of other explicitly supportive comments to the post as well.
Yeah, I'm all for making everyone and all opinions welcome, but we also can't go too far to the anodyne side. I hope good-natured joking is always welcome.

My opinion is this: when I join a new group, there's a period that's incumbent on me to fit in as much as on them to welcome me. I have to learn the customs and inside jokes. It's a little awkward during this time but it's not a problem or a fault of anyone's.

For example when I joined, I remember reacting to a post in some way that was usual for the "open waters" of BGG, and someone kindly said something to the effect of "Chill out, Kurt", and it was done in such a mellow way that I realized, "Oh, I don't have to be on my guard here. This is a safe(r) place."

And I still find that to be much more true than not.

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enzo622 wrote:
joestin wrote:
What I can't do, however, is walk on eggshells. When Rev posted this topic, my natural response was to make a light-hearted comment that I knew many in the guild would "get". I knew that it would be mixed in with a bunch of other explicitly supportive comments to the post as well.
Yeah, I'm all for making everyone and all opinions welcome, but we also can't go too far to the anodyne side. I hope good-natured joking is always welcome.

My opinion is this: when I join a new group, there's a period that's incumbent on me to fit in as much as on them to welcome me. I have to learn the customs and inside jokes. It's a little awkward during this time but it's not a problem or a fault of anyone's.

For example when I joined, I remember reacting to a post in some way that was usual for the "open waters" of BGG, and someone kindly said something to the effect of "Chill out, Kurt", and it was done in such a mellow way that I realized, "Oh, I don't have to be on my guard here. This is a safe(r) place."

And I still find that to be much more true than not.


Seriously Kurt, Chill Out
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So I'm reading a lot of posts on the 1PG today specifically to reply to threads from different countries as part of my attempt to complete all four of my Task #8s from my My Secret Soloist, ShhhSolo, SeeSawand sauronSeSosauron. This task is from My (real) Secret Soloist and I want to thank Steve for being from Canada

But, setting all of that aside, what a joy it was to stumble across this one! Man, this place is so awesome, I keep telling everyone that I've just been floored by the welcome I've gotten here. I thought I'd seen the wealth of kindness and generosity BGG had to offer... and then I found the 1PG. It's been amazing and I just want to say thank you all so, so much for that.
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That was a great post! Yes indeed!
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fourquartets wrote:
So I'm reading a lot of posts on the 1PG today specifically to reply to threads from different countries as part of my attempt to complete all four of my Task #8s from my My Secret Soloist, ShhhSolo, SeeSawand sauronSeSosauron. This task is from My (real) Secret Soloist and I want to thank Steve for being from Canada

But, setting all of that aside, what a joy it was to stumble across this one! Man, this place is so awesome, I keep telling everyone that I've just been floored by the welcome I've gotten here. I thought I'd seen the wealth of kindness and generosity BGG had to offer... and then I found the 1PG. It's been amazing and I just want to say thank you all so, so much for that.

I really agree with Anna! Judy poined me here but I became active just recently but I have still seen some really cool things. The generosity and kindness of the people in this guild is awesome (and contagious too I think). I got my package from my Secret Soloist Exchange earlier today and there are still happy tears running down my cheek...
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joestin wrote:
sarebear62 wrote:
Jude wrote:
Osyrn wrote:
Well said Rev!

Welcome to all the new members! Whether you decide to lurk in the shadows of the guild (like I did for quite a while ) or you become active on a daily basis, I gotta agree with others here, this is the friendliest place on the Internet!

"C'mon in boys, the water is fine!"

Not a boy. Also, it's not always friendly here, especially if not male. Although Albert has done a good job of moderating when necessary.

It's fine that so many people here think that this is a great, friendly, welcoming guild. And, it usually is. But the point of the thread is that it can easily change by ignoring (or condoning) sexist, racist, and other bigoted and demeaning comments because you (the generic "you" -- not you in particular) think they are funny or at least not offensive to you, and also by assuming that everyone here is of a particular type -- male, for example.

An example being, my comment, reacting to the gears of war nerd rage thing, the just don't thing, it took a day or two for my comment to get acknowledged or validated, and pretty swiftly after that, it was said thst, oh, he was just being funny. That may be, but it can also easily come across, what he did, especially as the first comment after the initial post, as being completely contrary to what that initial post was saying. And I felt the, oh, he was just being funny, after a person or two had finally acknowledged me, was like the person I am quoting above, I believe x implies.

Saying it was just being funny can be used to invalidate or dismiss. I don't want this to bo a super touchy place, I even said in my comment the struggle is real, I acknowledged his thing.

An acknowledgement of how, the person was just being funny, can be used to push something or someone down or away . . . . Maybe the person above meant that the humor itself is a way to make things less friendly. I really hate that it sounds like I am jumping on the guy. It's just an example of how things might sound like a good idea . . . I don't know.

It could be funny to some people, but sometimes people can hide passive aggressive stuff under the humor label, which I am not saying he was doing, but his comment could be read either way. I do think some people use humor this way, though.

The effect can often be that people are seen and told, lighten up, don't be sourpuss. Anyway, I have gone on. And have risked far too much. I am sorry for any offense.

Before I say anything, I'll say this: We're cool Sara... the comments to follow are seated in absolutely ZERO frustration. I just want to clear the air.

I didn't announce it here simply because I didn't want to draw attention to myself, but my house flooded last weekend and I've been working like a dog all week to try and get the repairs going. Thus, my presence around here has been spotty at best. I'd disappear entirely, but honestly, this place includes quite a few people I would consider my day-to-day friends so I WANT to be here to get a little break.

So that's the explanation of why I haven't responded yet. So now... I'll respond!

As far as my comment, I can see how it might be construed a negative way. I've made "negative" comments in jest toward Gears criticisms in the past. Sometimes it works... sometimes it falls flat. Thing is, dry humor is what I engage in more often than not. Some of my favorite shows involve the humor of discomfort (see my multitude of Office references around the guild for example). I can't ignore this about myself. The occasional pitfall is being misunderstood. I can live with that.

No one is more sensitive... no wait, I'm not going to say that because it's probably not true. I feel as though I am appropriately and sometimes exceedingly sensitive to the difficulties of text communication. I can assure you that I have never and will never say anything that is intended to be inflammatory, dismissive, or offensive. What I can't do, however, is walk on eggshells. When Rev posted this topic, my natural response was to make a light-hearted comment that I knew many in the guild would "get". I knew that it would be mixed in with a bunch of other explicitly supportive comments to the post as well.

It's a bit of an odd position to find myself in really. And Sara, please don't read this as ANY sort of criticism of your response. I completely get where you're coming from. I'm a major introvert that often struggles with situational communication. I do fine most of the time, but I have been guilty MANY times in real life of saying the wrong thing at the wrong time.

So that's that. Hopefully I've clarified my position and maybe offered a glimpse for people who don't know me as well what goes on in my brain while writing a post.
We're good.

I'm sorry for what you are going through.
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klkitchens wrote:
1. Have a thick skin.

2. Hide posts and people that you find offensive to you.

3. Realize that you have no right not to be offended.

4. There are no such things as "safe spaces"

5. Don't attack others.

6. Don't imagine criticism to be an attack.

7. Don't imagine difference of opinion to be an attack.

8. Don't imagine not agreeing with you to be an attack.

9. Don't imagine unacceptance of your choices to be an attack.

10. Have a thick skin.


Some of this borders on victim blaming and is not at all in the spirit of this thread. We all need to take responsibility for what we say or type. This space is what we make it and I'd like to believe that most of us would like it to be as accepting and safe for our members and visitors as we possibly can. No one should need to "have a thick skin" to enjoy their time here.
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klkitchens wrote:
1. Have a thick skin.

2. Hide posts and people that you find offensive to you.

3. Realize that you have no right not to be offended.

4. There are no such things as "safe spaces"

5. Don't attack others.

6. Don't imagine criticism to be an attack.

7. Don't imagine difference of opinion to be an attack.

8. Don't imagine not agreeing with you to be an attack.

9. Don't imagine unacceptance of your choices to be an attack.

10. Have a thick skin.

Some of this might be useful advice in general, but it's hardly "A friendly word", and I don't consider 3. and 4. useful in creating a welcoming community, which is what this thread is about.

Too thick a skin (it's mentioned twice) might make you rather inflexible. And when aiming for a welcoming community, a heart is probably the better organ to be guided by than a thick skin.
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klkitchens wrote:
1. Have a thick skin.

2. Hide posts and people that you find offensive to you.

3. Realize that you have no right not to be offended.

4. There are no such things as "safe spaces"

5. Don't attack others.

6. Don't imagine criticism to be an attack.

7. Don't imagine difference of opinion to be an attack.

8. Don't imagine not agreeing with you to be an attack.

9. Don't imagine unacceptance of your choices to be an attack.

10. Have a thick skin.


Whatever...

Making a space feel safer for participants who might be less "thick skinned" than you is a noble goal. If you feel the need to be a curmudgeon, that is your "right" but it isn't very kind or giving, principles I thought were part of beliefs you have professed to hold elsewhere on this site. Blessed are the meek and all...
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marble911 wrote:
And when aiming for a welcoming community, a heart is probably the better organ to be guided by than a thick skin.

I wish I could thumb this a thousand times!
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klkitchens wrote:

6. Don't imagine criticism to be an attack.

7. Don't imagine difference of opinion to be an attack.

8. Don't imagine not agreeing with you to be an attack.

9. Don't imagine unacceptance of your choices to be an attack.

klkitchens wrote:

Something I do believe in as part of my faith, which you seemed eager to attack, much like the incident which spawned this thread. I've never defended the right of people to attack others and my post here certainly is not presented that way or should be construed that way.

However, people also have a right to express ideas that might make others reasonably uncomfortable. Like your condescending attack on me and my faith. Yes, it makes me annoyed, but I, having a thick skin, don't let it get to me.


I am not attacking your faith at all (see your own suggestions 6-9 above), just pointing out that your attitude and your stated beliefs can sometimes appear to be conflicting. No condescension intended at all, I have great respect (and often envy) for those with faith.

While people have a "right" to express ideas that make others uncomfortable, there is a time and place for everything. We are here primarily to discuss games, so if you hate a game (like say... Mage Knight) go right ahead and say so. But more political or personal "truths" stated with complete disregard for the feelings of others are exclusionary and, in my mind, not really welcome here. It is like asking people not to cuss in church, or talk about sex in a daycare, or shout out spoilers at the beginning of a movie. Sure people have a "right" to do those things, but is it appropriate?

No-one is being "censored", and there are no hard and fast rules (which I made clear in my OP), I was just asking people to think about inclusion and to think about other people's feelings when posting. Do you have to do that? No. Does it make the place more welcoming for others? Yes.
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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klkitchens wrote:
Something I do believe in as part of my faith, which you seemed eager to attack, much like the incident which spawned this thread.

To be very clear, in the thread that spawned this post I did not attack anyone's faith.

What happened was a person I consider a friend was posting about how they were in an emotional and mental health crisis, and how their own faith had helped them. When someone came into the thread and posted about how that faith was inappropriate and theirs was better, with complete disregard for the feelings and mental state of the OP, I called them out on it. I did call them out way too harshly, which I apologized for later in the thread (and by GM), and the poster also apologized for jumping into the thread and posting what they did without understanding the context.

I have no interest in demeaning or attacking anyone's faith, and I apologize if I have come across that way.
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reverendunclebastard wrote:
klkitchens wrote:
Something I do believe in as part of my faith, which you seemed eager to attack, much like the incident which spawned this thread.

To be very clear, in the thread that spawned this post I did not attack anyone's faith.

What happened was a person I consider a friend was posting about how they were in an emotional and mental health crisis, and how their own faith had helped them. When someone came into the thread and posted about how that faith was inappropriate and theirs was better, with complete disregard for the feelings and mental state of the OP, I called them out on it. I did call them out way too harshly, which I apologized for later in the thread (and by GM), and the poster also apologized for jumping into the thread and posting what they did without understanding the context.

I have no interest in demeaning or attacking anyone's faith, and I apologize if I have come across that way.
Precisely. If a Christian person were talking about a very difficult time they were going through and how their faith was helping them -- and then somebody posted, "Yeah, but there is only one God but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet", I'd call that person out the same way even though I am not Christian. It would just be inappropriate. There was no attack on anybody's faith in that thread, just decorum.
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reverendunclebastard wrote:
While people have a "right" to express ideas that make others uncomfortable, there is a time and place for everything. We are here primarily to discuss games, so if you hate a game (like say... Mage Knight) go right ahead and say so. But more political or personal "truths" stated with complete disregard for the feelings of others are exclusionary and, in my mind, not really welcome here. It is like asking people not to cuss in church, or talk about sex in a daycare, or shout out spoilers at the beginning of a movie. Sure people have a "right" to do those things, but is it appropriate?
Well said, Steve. I like this part in particular as I follow this ethic.
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I really hope this thread doesn't devolve into the kind of thread I was celebrating the absence of in the 1PG

All I was trying to say was, try and play nice folks. It is easy to forget that the experience of others is not the same as your own, so when in doubt, tread carefully and be kind.

Cheers,
The Rev
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