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Subject: Gen Con 2016 No Ship Math Trade Discussion rss

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Dev Sodagar
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Gen Con 2016 is just weeks away and I am taking over from adreeve in running this years GenCon No Ship Math Trade. There will be a few changes this year so even if you have done this for years, please do carefully read the instructions below:

Request GeekList: https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/210076/gen-con-2016-no-sh...

Trade GeekList: https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/210072/gen-con-2016-no-sh...

If you are participating in this math trade use of the OLWLG (Online Want List Generator) is mandatory for creating your want list(s) (please remember to tip JeffyJeff some GG for his support).

If you have never used the OLWLG before, please read this: http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/OLWLG

And if you're still unsure, feel free to ask questions in the discussion thread. It's not hard... really... the core idea is that you post stuff you are willing to trade and then choose things others have listed that you'd be willing to trade each of your items for. You'll only ever give something away if you also receive something in exchange for it that you choose! And if there's nothing you want for a given title you don't have to trade it.

Key dates and times:
Submissions open: Now
Submissions close: Monday, July 18th, 11pm Eastern time.
Want List submission open: Monday, July 18th, (shortly after item submission closes)
Want List submission close: Thursday, July 28th at 11pm Eastern time.

Results will be posted shortly thereafter.

Meet Ups: - CHANGED
In recent years, this Math Trade has gotten bigger and bigger, I am hoping to see that continue but it means we need to make a few changes to how trades happen. Please Please, read this bit carefully:

* If at all possible, please try and arrange trades with each other directly. There are a lot of traders and it is increasingly difficult to get everybody together in one place at one time.
* If you are trading 3 or fewer items / or mostly trading with a single person - again please try to arrange this directly with each other (be mindful of this if someone you are trading with only has a few items).
* This event is open to anyone who wants to participate, but please note that this is a NO SHIP event.

There will be a meet up on Friday, August 5th at 5:00 p.m. - 7:00p.m. outside of Hall A on the side with Room 128 near the entrance (just like last year) to exchange games and you'll either need to be in attendance, have someone proxy (drop off and pick up) for you at the meet-up, or make your own arrangements to give/get your trade items. Please note that this is a new TIME for the trade.

(If you need more detail on where this is then check out the maps of the convention center available at...

http://www.icclos.com/floor-plans.aspx

Then click on Level 1 and Hall A is close to the top left of the map (note that the main entry with the car drop off area is the upper right).


Submission Format
All posted items should have the following format so it is clear what is being traded:

Condition: This should be described as accurately as possible. If games are not in shrink, please inventory them to ensure all pieces are present or list out which ones are missing. Do not assume all pieces are there!

Language: Language of the item / language independence of components.

Edition/Publisher: The edition and/or publisher of the item.

Comments: Any misc. comments about the item.

Attending: Which days Friday, Saturday and/or Sunday you will be attending the convention. (So traders can coordinate a meeting.)


Rules - please read
OK - some simple rules - please take a few seconds to realize that you are responsible for abiding by these rules if participating whether you read them or not:

* Please do not delete items or sweeteners once you have listed them. You can always submit a blank want list for an entry if you've traded it away before the deadline. If you do it can mess things up with the OLWLG.

* Errors made by you will NOT invalidate the results. You will be expected to honor your trades even if you made a mistake, so please carefully review your wants list(s) before submitting them. You can always make changes BEFORE the end of the submission period but NOT after it.

* This is a no ship event. All exchanges are to be made at the location specified about AT THE TIME SPECIFIED ABOVE. For those of you that like to show up 45 minutes late to a horde of angry but grateful you actually showed up people please BE ON TIME. That's 5:00 p.m. Indianapolis time! I have a hard cut off at 7pm so cannot stay for late comers. If you cannot attend in person, you can still participate but you must find someone who is willing to act as your proxy at the convention (taking your games there for you and picking up your new games). If you are unable to get your games to the Con for whatever reason after participating then this becomes a ship trade for you and it will be your responsibility to pay postage costs for both shipping your games and for others to ship games to you, but PLEASE don't let it come to that. It never has before.

* Gift Certificates and Geekgold (GG) are allowed in this math trade, but arbitrage of these is not (trading a lower cash value item for a higher cash value item). DVDs, RPGs, computer games and other relevant items of interest are all permitted, but be reasonable. If you list items nobody is interested in then you're wasting your time and everyone else's time. Please note that any Math Trader who accepts a cash value trade (either in the form of GC or actual cash) is conducting a direct sale through the site and is subject to the associated commission fee required by the Terms of Service just as with any other sale. For information on how to do this, please see:
Cash Value Trades in Math Trades (and how to make a geek market listing for them)

* Non-game entries must be added as "Outside the Scope of BGG" (game id 23953), Miscellaneous Game Merchandise (game id 22104) or "Miscellaneous Game Accessory" (game id 5985). Please also note the use of the "alt name" tag that the OLWLG supports in order to properly view your items over there.

* If you are offering an expansion for which there is no entry in BGG (for instance expansion cards handed out at Essen) and NOT the base game, please use "Miscellaneous Game Accessory" to help avoid confusion.

* You are expected to describe, as accurately as is reasonably possible, the condition (components and box) and edition of your item in the description. If your item is not the English version or a multilingual version that includes English rules then the supported languages MUST be disclosed in the description (copies/printouts of English rules are fine, but it must be disclosed that the game was not originally English from the manufacturer). This includes sweeteners.

* For games not brand new (in shrink) you must inventory the game's components and list anything missing. Do not assume it is complete solely because the person giving it to you told you it was. If a game is found to be missing pieces then it will be the giver's responsibility to rectify that. Also, remember that just because something is "new in shrink" doesn't mean that you shouldn't disclose any dings and dents. It might not matter to you, but it matters to some people.

* You are expected to periodically check during the item submission period, and preferably during the want list submission period, to see if anyone has commented on your entries. People often ask questions of items - most commonly because you have forgotten to state a version, language or shipping policy - and you should check in to address such questions in a timely manner should they arise, so that everyone then has the correct information available. This is a very easy thing to do. Just click on "My Geek", then "Contributions" and finally on "GeekList Items". You will then be able to see your items without having to find them in the trade GeekList along with any comments that people have made. You will only need to go back to the trade GeekList to make adjustments or answer questions if there were any.

* When you arrive at the trade please sign in for yourself and anyone you're proxying for (list your BGG ID next to theirs on my sign in list). Next, please have a prominent sign with your BGG ID on it so you can advertise that you are there. Lastly let's TRY to arrange ourselves alphabetically by BGG ID starting with A's closest to the door and Z's furthest down the hallway as we did last year with some success. ALSO if you only have a few trades PLEASE try and knock those out OUTSIDE of the meetup and likewise if you're trading with someone with 3 or fewer trades please try to accommodate. The less people we have = the fasting things go. This is becoming a BIG trade.


Other useful information:

OWLG Metric Used: USER-TRADING Seed=12345 Iterations=500

You can start creating your want lists any time after the start of the event.

Please note that it's best to work on your want lists and submit them early - you can always make changes and resubmit later. This will prevent you from being left out if you forget the deadline.

Submissions may be made at any time after the listing period has ended. If you will be unavailable during the want list submission period but still wish to participate, contact me directly and we can discuss the possibility of you submitting early.

Remember that you may have saved your want lists, but they have NOT been submitted until you press the green button in step 4 and received a confirming Geekmail.

You are not obliged to trade anything you put up for offer. If you offer a game, but see nothing that you are willing to accept for it in trade, you can submit a blank want list for it, or not submit one at all. If, however, you do submit a want list for a game, then it is expected that you will honor any trade that the TradeMaximizer comes up with. You will not receive anything you did not list as acceptable for the game(s) you have offered, so it is important to check your want lists when they are posted publicly (see above dates), to correct any errors.

Please note: Sometimes real life intrudes on us unexpectedly. If I'm an hour late posting something, please bear with me. Running one of these can be a fair bit of work, and it will be my first time.

So enter lots of items and have fun!
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Sheamus Parkes
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Thanks a bunch for coordinating this year!

It does appear you left a reference to 9:30am in the rules section above (that conflicts with the 5pm time under meetup info.)

Thanks again!
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Dev Sodagar
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Isamoor wrote:
It does appear you left a reference to 9:30am in the rules section above (that conflicts with the 5pm time under meetup info.)


Thanks Sheamus have a little bug fix bounty ;-)

UPDATE:
I have also been informed that Cash Trades are subject to commission for the BGG site. Please see the article linked.
 
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Josh C.
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Ugh. The Friday official meet-up time is killer for me. I've done this math trade for the last 4 years, but I can only attend Gen Con on Saturday, and if I have a lot of trades, that means I could spend all Saturday trying to track people down (for example, I have 24 trades at Origins this year).

I know there is a portion of the math-trading crowd who likes to arrange their trades outside of the meet-up, but for those of us with a good number of trades and/or who are not staying in one of the close hotels, the meet-up is by far the best way to get our trades efficiently accomplished. The Friday night meet up effectively eliminates me, and I'm guessing I'm not the only one. Is there any chance we can move this back to Saturday? I'm driving in from 2 hours away, but I wouldn't mind getting there at 9am or earlier to make the meet up if it were earlier on Saturday morning.

Sorry to raise objections so soon, but I figure it's now or never for reconsidering the time. Thanks for giving thought to how to make the math trade better!
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Chris Dame
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I'm thrilled that it's not Saturday morning this year. Waking up at 6am the last few years to park as close as possible, so I could get my ~20 trades to the spot with the least leg work really cut my Friday night short.

Looking forward to gaming late every night this year.

Thanks for organizing this event!
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Sheamus Parkes
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Coordinating this and putting yourself at risk of mediating disputes more than gives you rights to pick the meetup time IMHO. Go with what's convenient for you Mr. Sodagar!

I would imagine Friday evening is going to be better for some and worse for others and that it'll balance out enough.
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Dev Sodagar
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Wheatie wrote:
The Friday official meet-up time is killer for me.


Hey Josh!
I'm sorry to hear that this will rule you out. I am sure you won't be the only one but I am afraid I really can't support an organized trade on the Saturday.

Saturday is obviously the biggest day for the Con and having potentially a hundred people clustered around has caused some issues in the past for traffic flows.

There are ways around this but it gets harder every year and I feel that later on Friday is really going to be a better time for the Con. I'd encourage you to still list your items and make it clear that you can only attend on Sat (possibly give people a place to meet in the items you list) so that people are aware there are restrictions and can ask for them if they can accommodate. This is something that has been used very successfully for UK Games Expo trades that have had some similar restrictions.

Dev
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Stephen Rochelle
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ragados wrote:
If you [delete entries from the geeklist] it can mess things up with the OLWLG.
Your trade, your rules, but for the sake of not promulgating bad info, the above is 100% false. The OLWLG handles deleted items just fine and without a hitch.

The issue is that a few people want to be able to treat the geeklist order number (#1, #2, whatever) as gospel, and that (and that alone) falls out of sync with the OLWLG when things are deleted. But a deleted item will not actually endanger the math trade in any way (particularly given that every large trade has a few deletions, rule or no), and recent US shipping trades have tried dropping this rule without ill effects.

All that said, note that deletion of sweeteners (or any change in listing that lessens the value of the listing) is a completely separate matter.
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Blake M
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This will be my first math trade. I listed some items on the Geeklist and I logged into the OLWLG, but I don't see the Gen Con Trade listed there. Am I missing something?
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Ron Laufer
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So excited for my first no-ship trade! Thanks for running it.

Questions:

1) There's the meetup Friday 5-7, but you also say "* If at all possible, please try and arrange trades with each other directly. There are a lot of traders and it is increasingly difficult to get everybody together in one place at one time." So, which is preferred? to be at the meetup, or to arrange the trades directly?

2) I'm signed up for an event that ends at 5:30, so do I have to worry about the "horde of angry but grateful you actually showed up people" or is that only if I don't specify it ahead of time?
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Chris Dame
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blakelocke wrote:
This will be my first math trade. I listed some items on the Geeklist and I logged into the OLWLG, but I don't see the Gen Con Trade listed there. Am I missing something?


Hey, Blake.

Glad you could join us and thanks for the question! It sounds like you did everything right. The OLWLG doesn't sync automatically, to keep the load on the server down (so I'm told). Whomever is running the trade, in this case ragados, will go in periodically to sync the list. Maybe once a day or so.

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Chris Dame
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gonzoron wrote:
So excited for my first no-ship trade! Thanks for running it.

Questions:

1) There's the meetup Friday 5-7, but you also say "* If at all possible, please try and arrange trades with each other directly. There are a lot of traders and it is increasingly difficult to get everybody together in one place at one time." So, which is preferred? to be at the meetup, or to arrange the trades directly?

2) I'm signed up for an event that ends at 5:30, so do I have to worry about the "horde of angry but grateful you actually showed up people" or is that only if I don't specify it ahead of time?


1) If possible, after the trade results are in, it is preferred that you try to meet up with your trade partners outside of the window to cut down on traffic between 5-7 on Friday. That said, sometimes that will prove difficult for one or both of the parties.

2) In each of your listings you need to mention that you can't make it to the 5-7 meetup on Friday, and offer alternative times that you will be available. That way, traders should be reading those comments and can decide if they can meet up outside the big organized meetup. If they can't, they shouldn't add your game(s) to their list of games they'd like to receive.
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Dev Sodagar
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damevfx wrote:

1) If possible, after the trade results are in, it is preferred that you try to meet up with your trade partners outside of the window to cut down on traffic between 5-7 on Friday. That said, sometimes that will prove difficult for one or both of the parties.

2) In each of your listings you need to mention that you can't make it to the 5-7 meetup on Friday, and offer alternative times that you will be available. That way, traders should be reading those comments and can decide if they can meet up outside the big organized meetup. If they can't, they shouldn't add your game(s) to their list of games they'd like to receive.


Spot on, thanks for helping out Chris :-)
I would also warn that some traders are sadly very unresponsive and this is another reason for the meet up so if they really aren't replying, you will prob find them there.
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Peter Elsenheimer
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I work for AEG at Gen Cons, and Friday afternoon onwards is dedicated to our preparation for our Big Game Night. I will try to participate in the math-trade, but I will have to find a proxy for me and/or do trades before the scheduled meetup. The math-trades are one of my favorite things, and I'm grateful for the hosts of them, and their dedication. I am sad to say, though, that this will be my first Gen Con math-trade meetup I will be unable to personally attend. I also had hoped to do my first auction ever, and offer Gen Con pickup at the math-trade.

Now, on to search for a willing and reliable proxy to haul, trade, then haul back my loot. Proxy, anyone? I'll buy you a meal.
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Jamie Specht
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pdrseuss wrote:
I work for AEG at Gen Cons, and Friday afternoon onwards is dedicated to our preparation for our Big Game Night. I will try to participate in the math-trade, but I will have to find a proxy for me and/or do trades before the scheduled meetup. The math-trades are one of my favorite things, and I'm grateful for the hosts of them, and their dedication. I am sad to say, though, that this will be my first Gen Con math-trade meetup I will be unable to personally attend. I also had hoped to do my first auction ever, and offer Gen Con pickup at the math-trade.

Now, on to search for a willing and reliable proxy to haul, trade, then haul back my loot. Proxy, anyone? I'll buy you a meal.


While I can't make it to the meetup, I am mostly stationary during most of the con, as I volunteer for a game publisher. I'd be very willing to manage your trades out of the booth I man there. Depends on how many games you're doing though. I have some space, but not 100% unlimited...
PS - Please private message me if you wish to take my offer here.
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Katrina
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Would be my first as well(if I figure everything out & decide to participate, lol). Question: if I see something on the list I want & the person lives in my town, is it ok to contact them directly? Obviously I may not have anything he wants, but if I do that's simpler - but I don't want to step on any toes/rules.
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Jamie Specht
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PezKat wrote:
Would be my first as well(if I figure everything out & decide to participate, lol). Question: if I see something on the list I want & the person lives in my town, is it ok to contact them directly? Obviously I may not have anything he wants, but if I do that's simpler - but I don't want to step on any toes/rules.


I think it is always ok to propose a private trade outside a math trade and F they like what you offer, can remove it from math trade availability to honor a direct trade.
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OutOfHabit wrote:
PezKat wrote:
Question: if I see something on the list I want & the person lives in my town, is it ok to contact them directly?


I think it is always ok to propose a private trade outside a math trade and F they like what you offer, can remove it from math trade availability to honor a direct trade.


I'd also say that if you are matched through the Math Trade with someone in your area, you are very welcome to reach out to them and make the trade outside of the Con if they are up for it.
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Jeff Wood
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OLWLG has had trouble synching with the last couple large math trades I've been in.

It's still my preferred and best front-end for the math-trade program, though. But the wants windows was delayed by the need for the admin to do admin things personally (took a number of days last time) as the new BGG framework may be why we are now getting hiccups in the sync process.

Not sure if you want to scale the wants window back a week to give time in case this happens again.
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Dev Sodagar
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Thanks for the heads up Jeff, may need to do just that but hoping it's not needed.
 
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Chris SC

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based on past years, i think we'll be small enough to avoid most of those headaches.
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ZOMG!
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The new time is much better for exhibitors, or anyone who wants to get in the exhibit hall right when it opens. Last year my trades got mucked up - my fault - because I got stuck in a long line to buy Champions of Midgard for a friend.
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hibou
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With Trigun being this lock consensus good read for so many people, I find it really bizarre that she's alive. There's a threshold where if she's still alive she should probably be murdalated.
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If I can't make it at 5pm, can I arrange privately with my trading people to get/give them games?
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hibou
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With Trigun being this lock consensus good read for so many people, I find it really bizarre that she's alive. There's a threshold where if she's still alive she should probably be murdalated.
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Nevermind. Apparently I already missed it? This feels super early.
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