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Subject: Coffee Roaster next to Coffee House? rss

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Jonathan Warren
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There is a rule that prevents the placement of the Tea House within 3 spaces of the Black Market, but should the same placement rules also apply to the Coffee Roaster and the Coffee House?

We played a game with both main expansions this afternoon. The Coffee Roaster and the Coffee House were adjacent to one another and I was easily able to acquire quite a few rubies by just going back and forth between the two locations, collecting coffee, taking the odd visit to the Auction House (letters expansion), which was also adjacent to the Coffee Roaster, to get hold of bonus cards and a resource to use at the Coffee Roaster. The Tavern was also quite near and my Companion (letters expansion) was also able to mitigate the effect of my opponents placement of the Barrier.

Edit: removed 'three expansions' and replaced with 'both main expansions')
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Joel Oakley
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I had a similar outcome recently (without the letters expansion). After getting some goods and money, I was able to get 3 rubies very quickly going between the roasting plant and coffee house. After that, I used a guild card to get the next one at half price. It will definitely be a house rule around here to keep them separated by 3 or more (and not on the same row or column).
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Jonathan Warren
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One of the cards I picked up at the Auction House was the Coffee House x2, so once I had built up the coffee resources, I was able to grab 2 rubies on one turn
 
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Ralph Bruhn
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JoffW wrote:
There is a rule that prevents the placement of the Tea House within 3 spaces of the Black Market, but should the same placement rules also apply to the Coffee Roaster and the Coffee House?

We played a game with all three expansions this afternoon. The Coffee Roaster and the Coffee House were adjacent to one another and I was easily able to acquire quite a few rubies by just going back and forth between the two locations, collecting coffee, taking the odd visit to the Auction House (letters expansion), which was also adjacent to the Coffee Roaster, to get hold of bonus cards and a resource to use at the Coffee Roaster. The Tavern was also quite near and my Companion (letters expansion) was also able to mitigate the effect of my opponents placement of the Barrier.
Yes, that sounds good - to be honest I'm also doing this. Personally I make even more small adjustments, but that would have been too complicated to explain them all in the rulebook ...
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Ted Marshall
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Three expansions?!?! I don't see anything named "letters"; Is this Istanbul: Letters & Seals? Is the third one of the mini expansions or is there a letters expansion that's not listed in BGG?
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Jonathan Warren
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TedMarshall wrote:
Three expansions?!?! I don't see anything named "letters"; Is this Istanbul: Letters & Seals? Is the third one of the mini expansions or is there a letters expansion that's not listed in BGG?

My bad. Although we did use Istanbul: Kebab Shop Mini Expansion (which gives me three expansions), I actually meant 'both main expansions' as I really am meaning the two main expansions.

I have edited my opening post.

Yes, the 'letters' expansion is Istanbul: Letters & Seals.
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Jonathan Warren
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barandur wrote:
Yes, that sounds good - to be honest I'm also doing this. Personally I make even more small adjustments, but that would have been too complicated to explain them all in the rulebook ...

Thanks for the response. I think I will incorporate this rule for the next game. I'd certainly be interested in the small adjustments that you make.
 
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JoffW wrote:
barandur wrote:
Yes, that sounds good - to be honest I'm also doing this. Personally I make even more small adjustments, but that would have been too complicated to explain them all in the rulebook ...

Thanks for the response. I think I will incorporate this rule for the next game. I'd certainly be interested in the small adjustments that you make.


+1

A detailed post of adjustments you make to help balance everything even better would be well received here on BGG. Adding a PDF file of these adjustments would be even better!
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Ralph Bruhn
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JoffW wrote:
barandur wrote:
Yes, that sounds good - to be honest I'm also doing this. Personally I make even more small adjustments, but that would have been too complicated to explain them all in the rulebook ...

Thanks for the response. I think I will incorporate this rule for the next game. I'd certainly be interested in the small adjustments that you make.
That's not so easy to describe, because they are not really "rules" - it's more like adjustments to the personal taste. And my taste is to make the ways (and so the game) longer

Here is a list of things I usually consider:
- Place the warehouses at least 3 spaces from the Mosque of the same colour.
- Don't place the Tea House and the Post office on one of the central spaces
- Place at least one of the Markets in a corner
- Place the Gemstone dealer at least 3 spaces from the Great Market and the Tea House.
- Don't put the Warehouses to close together
- Place the Caravansary on one of the central places, when you're not using the Mocha-Expansion. If you use it, it's the other way round.
- Check, that you have at least 4, better 5 sensible options to start from the Fountain
- Mocha-expansion: Place the Guild Hall and the Coffee roaster at least 3 spaces from the Tavern (and not in the same row/column)
- to reduce luck and to extend the game, don't hand out the Bonus card at the beginning of the game.

If you want to have a shorter game, use the opposite

And please don't take all those points too strict, it's just a collection of guidelines, which I don't use in every game. It's still a setup, not a puzzle
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Lucas Hedgren
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So, Ralph,

Do you find the Tea House/Black Market combo to be the strongest, hence the actual rule for that one, vs. all the others? Or is it just that that was the one that existed in the original game?
 
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Ralph Bruhn
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boomtron wrote:
So, Ralph,

Do you find the Tea House/Black Market combo to be the strongest, hence the actual rule for that one, vs. all the others? Or is it just that that was the one that existed in the original game?
This combination is the strongest if you manage to get the red Mosque tile early, yes.
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David Grabiner
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barandur wrote:
boomtron wrote:
So, Ralph,

Do you find the Tea House/Black Market combo to be the strongest, hence the actual rule for that one, vs. all the others? Or is it just that that was the one that existed in the original game?
This combination is the strongest if you manage to get the red Mosque tile early, yes.


And that is important because it unbalances the game. The first player to get two red goods and then the red mosque gets that tile, and gets the double advantage. It takes longer for other players to get the red mosque tile, as they must get the money, go to the Wainwright, and only then go to the warehouse and mosque.

Other strong combinations help all players equally. If a warehouse is next to the matching mosque, everyone will get the mosque tile quickly. If the Roasting Plant is next to the Coffee House, everyone will get Coffee House rubies more easily. If the Small Market is next to the Gemstone Dealer, everyone will save a turn cashing in on the market.
 
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Mihir Shah

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barandur wrote:
JoffW wrote:
barandur wrote:
Yes, that sounds good - to be honest I'm also doing this. Personally I make even more small adjustments, but that would have been too complicated to explain them all in the rulebook ...

Thanks for the response. I think I will incorporate this rule for the next game. I'd certainly be interested in the small adjustments that you make.
That's not so easy to describe, because they are not really "rules" - it's more like adjustments to the personal taste. And my taste is to make the ways (and so the game) longer

Here is a list of things I usually consider:
- Place the warehouses at least 3 spaces from the Mosque of the same colour.
- Don't place the Tea House and the Post office on one of the central spaces
- Place at least one of the Markets in a corner
- Place the Gemstone dealer at least 3 spaces from the Great Market and the Tea House.
- Don't put the Warehouses to close together
- Place the Caravansary on one of the central places, when you're not using the Mocha-Expansion. If you use it, it's the other way round.
- Check, that you have at least 4, better 5 sensible options to start from the Fountain
- Mocha-expansion: Place the Guild Hall and the Coffee roaster at least 3 spaces from the Tavern (and not in the same row/column)
- to reduce luck and to extend the game, don't hand out the Bonus card at the beginning of the game.

If you want to have a shorter game, use the opposite

And please don't take all those points too strict, it's just a collection of guidelines, which I don't use in every game. It's still a setup, not a puzzle


Can you pls give your thoughts on the set up for the Great Bazaar variant which in use with the Letters and Seals expansion?
 
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Ralph Bruhn
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jalwaaa wrote:
barandur wrote:
JoffW wrote:
barandur wrote:
Yes, that sounds good - to be honest I'm also doing this. Personally I make even more small adjustments, but that would have been too complicated to explain them all in the rulebook ...

Thanks for the response. I think I will incorporate this rule for the next game. I'd certainly be interested in the small adjustments that you make.
That's not so easy to describe, because they are not really "rules" - it's more like adjustments to the personal taste. And my taste is to make the ways (and so the game) longer

Here is a list of things I usually consider:
- Place the warehouses at least 3 spaces from the Mosque of the same colour.
- Don't place the Tea House and the Post office on one of the central spaces
- Place at least one of the Markets in a corner
- Place the Gemstone dealer at least 3 spaces from the Great Market and the Tea House.
- Don't put the Warehouses to close together
- Place the Caravansary on one of the central places, when you're not using the Mocha-Expansion. If you use it, it's the other way round.
- Check, that you have at least 4, better 5 sensible options to start from the Fountain
- Mocha-expansion: Place the Guild Hall and the Coffee roaster at least 3 spaces from the Tavern (and not in the same row/column)
- to reduce luck and to extend the game, don't hand out the Bonus card at the beginning of the game.

If you want to have a shorter game, use the opposite

And please don't take all those points too strict, it's just a collection of guidelines, which I don't use in every game. It's still a setup, not a puzzle


Can you pls give your thoughts on the set up for the Great Bazaar variant which in use with the Letters and Seals expansion?
I place the Auction House on one of the 8 places around the Fountain, and the Embassy not too close to the Secret Society - that's all.
 
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Mihir Shah

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barandur wrote:
jalwaaa wrote:
barandur wrote:
JoffW wrote:
barandur wrote:
Yes, that sounds good - to be honest I'm also doing this. Personally I make even more small adjustments, but that would have been too complicated to explain them all in the rulebook ...

Thanks for the response. I think I will incorporate this rule for the next game. I'd certainly be interested in the small adjustments that you make.
That's not so easy to describe, because they are not really "rules" - it's more like adjustments to the personal taste. And my taste is to make the ways (and so the game) longer

Here is a list of things I usually consider:
- Place the warehouses at least 3 spaces from the Mosque of the same colour.
- Don't place the Tea House and the Post office on one of the central spaces
- Place at least one of the Markets in a corner
- Place the Gemstone dealer at least 3 spaces from the Great Market and the Tea House.
- Don't put the Warehouses to close together
- Place the Caravansary on one of the central places, when you're not using the Mocha-Expansion. If you use it, it's the other way round.
- Check, that you have at least 4, better 5 sensible options to start from the Fountain
- Mocha-expansion: Place the Guild Hall and the Coffee roaster at least 3 spaces from the Tavern (and not in the same row/column)
- to reduce luck and to extend the game, don't hand out the Bonus card at the beginning of the game.

If you want to have a shorter game, use the opposite

And please don't take all those points too strict, it's just a collection of guidelines, which I don't use in every game. It's still a setup, not a puzzle


Can you pls give your thoughts on the set up for the Great Bazaar variant which in use with the Letters and Seals expansion?
I place the Auction House on one of the 8 places around the Fountain, and the Embassy not too close to the Secret Society - that's all.


And does the 3 space away rule with not in the same row and column apply to it too?
 
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Ralph Bruhn
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jalwaaa wrote:
barandur wrote:
I place the Auction House on one of the 8 places around the Fountain, and the Embassy not too close to the Secret Society - that's all.


And does the 3 space away rule with not in the same row and column apply to it too?
Yes - but not as a "rule", more as a "recommendation"
 
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Susan
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barandur wrote:
jalwaaa wrote:
barandur wrote:
I place the Auction House on one of the 8 places around the Fountain, and the Embassy not too close to the Secret Society - that's all.


And does the 3 space away rule with not in the same row and column apply to it too?
Yes - but not as a "rule", more as a "recommendation"


 
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