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Subject: GeekGold Exchange Rate rss

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T. Rosen
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Have you ever wondered how much all that you've been collecting from GeekMod or been giving away generously through tips is really worth? If you figured it was a worthless virtual currency, then think again! Turns out your GeekGold is worth more than the Mexican Peso, Japanese Yen, Indian Rupee, and a whole host of other national currencies.

From this table summarizing all of the GeekGold exchanged for US currency via Auctions, you can see that since the Auction feature was introduced in July of 2005, 10,179 GeekGold has been exchanged for $1,444.38 for an average value of 7.05 GeekGold per Dollar, making each GeekGold worth a little over 14 cents. It's also impressive that in just over 4 months, over $846 has been spent purchasing GeekGold via the Auctions in 2007.





This table shows the lowest and highest exchange rates over the past couple years, as well as the average exchange for each month that GeekGold has been exchanged via the Auctions. You can see that contrary to common belief, GeekGold has not declined in value recently, but actually increased in value since the Summer/Fall of 2006.





Finally, here is a graph of all of the 105 transactions exchanging GeekGold for US currency. You can see that while the exchange rate has fluctuated a bit since the Auctions were introduced, it has remained surprisingly steady (and appears to have become more stable over time).





For a table with all of the data used for these charts/graphs, see this link: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/209337?size=original (from this data you can also see that the liquidity of GeekGold has been increasing remarkably quickly of late).

Fun Fact #1: When you write those Game Reviews for 3 shiny new GeekGold, you're actually getting about 43 cents... which is a tad bit below the minimum wage. But then again, if you were to write something like, oh I don't know, say 608 reviews, then you might be able to net yourself 1,824 GeekGold, worth about $261.69.

Fun Fact #2: That Avatar, GeekBadge, UberGeekBadge, and 5 Microbadges, which cost you 205 GeekGold, actually cost you anywhere from $18.64 to $68.33, with an average cost of $29.41 (given the opportunity cost). But don't let this discourage you from tipping me

Enjoy your and spend it wisely!
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Paul DeStefano
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This is simultaneously incredibly fascinating and totally useless information!

I have long wondered about this. There's no discernable trend, but this info if just so cool to look at.

Really wild. Thanks for the work.
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James Davis
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Hopefully this wont cause people to hold back on the tipping and spending of geekgold.

I was just thinking this morning, are we at a point where we need like a 'governor of the reserve bank of BGG' to keep the exchange rate at a decent standard.

As we get more and more people there will be more GG in circulation, this could cause some problems in the future.

I dunno if im overreacting but hey its just thoughts.

But it might be a good thing for an economics student or someone who does it for a living who wants to try out looking after an 'economy'.
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Mark Crane
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and here I am feeling all magnaminous for giving a 5gg tip once, and it was worth approximately 70 cents. So what are we paying ourselves when we upload a picture? Five cents an hour?
 
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Kevin Youells
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I paid 100 geek gold, and all I got was this lousy overtext
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In that case, I'm in the market for 130 geekgold. Anybody out there want $18.20 via paypal?
 
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Yehuda Berlinger
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Thanks, Tom. Good work.

Kevin - I'll do it, but I only have around 105 GG right now. You'll have to wait a few weeks.
 
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    Daily exchange rates pretty much are meaningless. Without looking at the 30 year geek gold bond market you really can't judge the overall health of the economy. THAT is what drives the geek lending rate.

             Sag.


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So, the secret is out. Derk actually 'left' to secretly run the GG Futures market in New York. Huge trading swings in future geekgold is directly affected by daily events here on BGG. I'll leave to draw your own conclusions on what caused the recent dip then upsurge in the GGex. I'm told it's recently hit 600 and is pushing to 700 even this week.

I'll sign off for now, but watch the skies! Watch the skies!

Your inside line on all things GGex
- - The Settler! - -
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T. Rosen
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Thanks everyone, I'm glad some people have found the information interesting... and if that wasn't enough I've received almost 5 cents in tips! I wonder if I ought to report that on my taxes, or if the $34.71 I've made from uploading 243 images should be on there, heh. I know I read something about them contemplating taxing earnings from Second Life and MMORPGs, but I doubt anything really came of it.

Geosphere wrote:
This is simultaneously incredibly fascinating and totally useless information!
I have long wondered about this. There's no discernable trend, but this info if just so cool to look at.
Really wild. Thanks for the work.


Thanks Paul, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I also find it surprisingly fascinating... hence why I was willing to scan through the past auctions to collect the data (although that was a useful tactic for procrastinating real work). Now it would be interesting to scan through and see how the exchange rate is when games are sold in Auctions, but perhaps I'll leave that some other brave soul.


jamesdavis wrote:
Hopefully this wont cause people to hold back on the tipping and spending of geekgold.
I was just thinking this morning, are we at a point where we need like a 'governor of the reserve bank of BGG' to keep the exchange rate at a decent standard.
As we get more and more people there will be more GG in circulation, this could cause some problems in the future.
I dunno if im overreacting but hey its just thoughts.
But it might be a good thing for an economics student or someone who does it for a living who wants to try out looking after an 'economy'.


I agree James, I certainly hope this won't cause people to be more hesitant in tipping. I hesitated for a moment posting this because I considered that possibility, but in the end I think everyone has known GeekGold has some real value (just haven't known what that value is, and some of the estimates I've seen before were actually valuing it too highly I believe), and people have still been willing to shell out for microbadges and such, so I doubt this will have an effect. If anything I think the microbadges have hurt tipping more than this thread would, although the advent of the new micro-tipping system allowing people to easily give 0.05 or something like that has definitely helped I think (at least it's helped me give a lot more tips).

craniac wrote:
and here I am feeling all magnaminous for giving a 5gg tip once, and it was worth approximately 70 cents. So what are we paying ourselves when we upload a picture? Five cents an hour?


Heh, I still think that's a pretty generous tip Mark! Yeah, uploading photos isn't exactly a good way to make a living, but it's still a good deal better than GeekModding for a living... although it seems like the people who GeekMod a lot actually enjoy doing it, so the revenue is secondary... same for the people who upload a lot of photos or reviews I imagine.

Kevin Youells wrote:
In that case, I'm in the market for 130 geekgold. Anybody out there want $18.20 via paypal?


Sounds about right Kevin; I imagine you'd have no trouble getting 130 GeekGold for your $18.20 if you setup an Auction, and you could even set a reserve of 120 or so, and a buy-it-now price of 140 or so. Let us know how it goes. I assume you want a GeekBadge, UberGeekBadge, and 2 more microbadges?

Shade_Jon wrote:
Thanks, Tom. Good work.
Kevin - I'll do it, but I only have around 105 GG right now. You'll have to wait a few weeks.


Thanks Yehuda, glad you liked it

Given the increasing liquidity of GeekGold, I'm guessing there will be lots of people willing to buy your GeekGold from you over the next few weeks. In 2007 there have been 70 completed Auctions, so almost 1 ending every day, which is pretty far out! Well, not quite since the data covers 122 days of 2007, but still a pretty impressive number of exchanges.
 
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Chris B
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There should be a geek gold investment market. Where we invest in certain numbers of games, and those investments grow based on how many BGGer's list become owners of that game, or the number of users that invest in that game increases vs what the game is rated, number of times sold or traded, etc. Some fancy algorithm that nobody knows.
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Mark Crane
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I'd like to be able to gamble with geekgold, or win games for GG, depending on how much each player submitted. That'd be awesome--if I ever won anything.
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Kevin Youells
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I paid 100 geek gold, and all I got was this lousy overtext
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That's exactly it, Tom. Although I have 1 GG left from modding, so I only need 129. the rest can be used for tipping
 
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Simon Hunt
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craniac wrote:
I'd like to be able to gamble with geekgold, or win games for GG, depending on how much each player submitted. That'd be awesome--if I ever won anything.

Aldie and I have sketched out the plans for a BGG Day Trader game, complete with a GG prize fund to be doled out each week for the most successful trader(s).

Aldie says it is on his list of "Things to Code"...
 
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Kevin Youells
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I paid 100 geek gold, and all I got was this lousy overtext
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Here's the auction, for those of you with tons of the gold stuff

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geekauction.php3?action=viewauc...
 
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Thumis Dalidalisa
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I'd be very curious as to how much geekgold is out there and how much is created and consumed (i.e. redeemed to BGG) in a month or some other time interval. That is, both the stock and the flow of geekgold.
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Gavin Wynford-Jones
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Awesome!

One thing it does reveal, is that paying for shipping on an auction with GG gets you a really great deal! For example, to cover real costs on a light game sent within Europe, I would have to charge at least 42 GG... Crikey! (I have no intention of doing so, guys, so stop worrying.)

How long did it take you to put all that together? Looks like quite a chunk of work!

Gavin
 
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Yeah, but it also makes me think that the 35GG I'm charging for shipping TO Europe may be a little low. Let's see ... how about 280GG for shipping to Europe?
 
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Geosphere wrote:
This is simultaneously incredibly fascinating and totally useless information!


Useless! A poor man in a third world country with dedicated broadband access and a computer could geekmod all day long and use that GG to purchase money and supplement his family's income. Maybe that's why there are so many people that complain about the database's low standards...
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James Davis
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Also after thinking about this a bit more. its not really a straight up conversion of GG worth its just its worth when in an auction for real money via pay pal, without taking into account alot of other factors.

A few other things that must be taken into account are GG in circulation, how much people have paid for all the games and the games worth including shipping being paid by GG in auctions, how long it takes to earn the GG. all these things will show us a clearer picture, I think youll find 1 GG is worth quite a bit more than what is being showed currently.

Thommy are you going to keep working on this? adding more data? keeping us updated?


 
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craniac wrote:
I'd like to be able to gamble with geekgold, or win games for GG, depending on how much each player submitted.

An example for horse race betting with geekgold:

Melbourne Cup Day - 3 GeekGold Sweep (win up to 36 GG)
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/1159048#1159048
 
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T. Rosen
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I guess the rumors of the demise of GeekGold tipping were greatly exaggerated

I'd like to thank all 15 people who contributed to generously tip me 7.66 for this thread! Thank you (in alphabetical order) cynthialandon, Falke, gavingva, gollygumdrops, GreatAtuin, Hallow, itsmarty, jamesdavis, kiraly, lastalchemist, Lord_Prussian, rootbeer, samidha, scriptorum, and Walsfeo. I appreciate the $1.10 very much

Sagrilarus wrote:
Daily exchange rates pretty much are meaningless. Without looking at the 30 year geek gold bond market you really can't judge the overall health of the economy. THAT is what drives the geek lending rate.


Heh, I think I'll leave the evaluation of the 30 year GeekGold bond market to you. Evaluating the past 2 years was quite enough for me laugh

EYE of NiGHT wrote:
So, the secret is out. Derk actually 'left' to secretly run the GG Futures market in New York. Huge trading swings in future geekgold is directly affected by daily events here on BGG. I'll leave to draw your own conclusions on what caused the recent dip then upsurge in the GGex. I'm told it's recently hit 600 and is pushing to 700 even this week.

I'll sign off for now, but watch the skies! Watch the skies!

Your inside line on all things GGex
- - The Settler! - -


That makes perfect sense Jon, now we know why Derk relocated... although I recently read that London has become the financial capital of the world (hmm, that might have been on the Daily Show or Saturday Night Live actually, so it might not count), so perhaps you'll have Derk on your side of the pond soon...

SybotCB wrote:
There should be a geek gold investment market. Where we invest in certain numbers of games, and those investments grow based on how many BGGer's list become owners of that game, or the number of users that invest in that game increases vs what the game is rated, number of times sold or traded, etc. Some fancy algorithm that nobody knows.


Wasn't the contest for the Take Stock game sort of like this, with a fake investment market, where I totally screwed up by diversifying too much, and the people who just went all in ended up doing the best (assuming they picked the right stock to go all in on). I'm too risk-averse to want to invest my GeekGold personally, unless it was FDIC insured

craniac wrote:
I'd like to be able to gamble with geekgold, or win games for GG, depending on how much each player submitted. That'd be awesome--if I ever won anything.


You can gamble your GeekGold with me Mark... as long as you give me odds

Isn't that sort of what you do when you pay GeekGold for one of those fantasy sports leagues, although I suppose you have a bit more control then. Anyway, I'll bet GeekGold that the Pistons beat the Bulls, any takers?

Kevin Youells wrote:
That's exactly it, Tom. Although I have 1 GG left from modding, so I only need 129. the rest can be used for tipping

Here's the auction, for those of you with tons of the gold stuff

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geekauction.php3?action=viewauc...


Best of luck, I hope you succeed in getting your GeekGold for the GeekBadge, UberGeekBadge, and Microbadges... and then perhaps I'll add the transaction to the tables/graph too

simonh wrote:
craniac wrote:
I'd like to be able to gamble with geekgold, or win games for GG, depending on how much each player submitted. That'd be awesome--if I ever won anything.

Aldie and I have sketched out the plans for a BGG Day Trader game, complete with a GG prize fund to be doled out each week for the most successful trader(s).

Aldie says it is on his list of "Things to Code"...


That's one looooooong list, I imagine, and top secret I here
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Kolumel wrote:
I'd be very curious as to how much geekgold is out there and how much is created and consumed (i.e. redeemed to BGG) in a month or some other time interval. That is, both the stock and the flow of geekgold.


That would be really interesting to know. I'll ask Aldie if there's an easy way to query the database to see how much GeekGold is currently in circulation. I imagine it's pretty high given the fact that there are so many users, and at Christmas time he has been known to give 5 or 10 GeekGold to every user, whether they're active or not, so there must be a fair amount sitting around in people's coffers. I wonder how much is created and redeemed each month, I'll have to look into that...

gavingva wrote:
Awesome!
One thing it does reveal, is that paying for shipping on an auction with GG gets you a really great deal! For example, to cover real costs on a light game sent within Europe, I would have to charge at least 42 GG... Crikey! (I have no intention of doing so, guys, so stop worrying.)
How long did it take you to put all that together? Looks like quite a chunk of work!
Gavin


Thanks Gavin, and thanks for the very generous tip, I really appreciate it! Yeah, you're right that people who accept GeekGold in exchange for shipping are being very generous I've noticed, but I suppose it helps convince people to bid more in the first place, so maybe it balances out. The thing with the GG auctions is that everyone bidding actually has a finite amount they can bid, which makes them a little different from eBay auctions where you try to convince yourself you'll only bid up to a certain amount, but then are always tempted to go a little more, etc. I suppose it can be frustrating, but also a little liberating to know that you've bid all you have and if you get outbid then there's nothing you can do so no need to worry about it.

Anyway, it was a fair bit of work, but didn't actually take too much time. COllecting the data did involve scanning the 50 pages of past GeekGold Auction results, but identifying the ones where cash was exchanged for GeekGold was pretty easy... I'd like to collect data on GeekGold exchanged for games and then use the game's value to see how much more GeekGold is worth when used to purchase games (presumably a fair bit more), but identifying those auctions would definitely be more time consuming. Anyway, once I had the data, it wasn't too much trouble because I wanted to get acquainted with using functions in Excel anyway, so it gave me a chance to use the Sum, Average, Round, etc. functions, and learn how to make a graph too, which was interesting. I'm sure there's all sorts of other neat stuff someone with more experience with Excel could do with the data... in fact, if anyone wants me to e-mail them to Excel file with all the data, feel free to send me a GeekMail asking for it

gcbrowni wrote:
Yeah, but it also makes me think that the 35GG I'm charging for shipping TO Europe may be a little low. Let's see ... how about 280GG for shipping to Europe?


Heh, good luck

mdornbrook wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
This is simultaneously incredibly fascinating and totally useless information!


Useless! A poor man in a third world country with dedicated broadband access and a computer could geekmod all day long and use that GG to purchase money and supplement his family's income. Maybe that's why there are so many people that complain about the database's low standards...


Writing reviews and uploading photos might be even more profitable than GeekMod, but then you'd need access to games and a digital camera I suppose.

jamesdavis wrote:
Also after thinking about this a bit more. its not really a straight up conversion of GG worth its just its worth when in an auction for real money via pay pal, without taking into account alot of other factors.

A few other things that must be taken into account are GG in circulation, how much people have paid for all the games and the games worth including shipping being paid by GG in auctions, how long it takes to earn the GG. all these things will show us a clearer picture, I think youll find 1 GG is worth quite a bit more than what is being showed currently.

Thommy are you going to keep working on this? adding more data? keeping us updated?


I may try to keep working on this James, and if I do I'll certainly post an update. As I mentioned a bit earlier, I would like to collect the data and run the same sort of analysis for GeekGold Auctions involving games, not just those for cash via PayPal.

Then again, that raises the issue of reliability. Although perhaps that issue is already raised here. Just like on eBay where someone with better feedback can probably sell the exact same item for more money than someone with little feedback or bad feedback, I assume or guess that someone who has an avatar/geekbadge/patron badge/etc. can sell their cash for geekgold or game for geekgold and get a better return... I wonder...

If you (or anyone else) has suggestions for further things to do with the data or more data to collect then definitely let me know, as I'm happy to do some more work on it, but am not sure what would be most interesting for people to see.

Werbaer wrote:
craniac wrote:
I'd like to be able to gamble with geekgold, or win games for GG, depending on how much each player submitted.

An example for horse race betting with geekgold:

Melbourne Cup Day - 3 GeekGold Sweep (win up to 36 GG)
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/1159048#1159048


That's a good point Werner, we've already got some GeekGold gamblers in the house... it's sure to catch on more now!
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James Davis
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Well Thommy I think these are the main things that needed to be added to the data to have the clearest picture.

*How much GG is in circluation
*How much has been spent
*How much has been spent on GG auctions
*Then how much the items in the auctions were
*Then how much the items are actually worth in real money
*the shipping costs in GG
*the actual cost of shipping in money

I think with all these it might actually make GG worth something like 2GG to $1

This is what data I would like to see as well.
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How long before sweatshops in China will start uploading images, writing reviews and participating in contests, like they do for WoW and Second Life?

I hear a guy from Korea is making a huge income on writing reviews... ninja
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Kevin Youells
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My auction has ended with someone paying the 'buy it now' price of 135GG for $18.20. Net exchange 13.5 cents per geekgold.

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