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Subject: Tiers of Joy Math Trade discussion rss

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Carl Anderson
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The Tiers of Joy math trade can be found at:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/21688

RESULTS POSTED

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/1518068#1518068
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Derek Jung
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Is there a limitation on duplicates? Thanks for running the trade.
 
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Carl Anderson
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phurballdj wrote:
Is there a limitation on duplicates? Thanks for running the trade.


NO!

The only limit is the ranking system. Thus, if you had 5 copies of a game ranked 800, you could list them all--but nothing else in that tier.
 
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Carl Anderson
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Just so everyone is aware, I'm counting on the support of the participants to aid me in finding any rules violations. I can't check as often as I might like, so it might only be once per day.

Thanks.
 
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Chris
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Just a quick note for possible international transactions. The USPS has increased rates and generally screwed with our international shipping.

For example, see the following thread for more info:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/165581

Or the following tag for even more info:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/tag/shipping

To be fair, I don't know what the impact is as I haven't had to ship anything yet, but others might be more informed than I.

Chris
 
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Stephen Buonocore
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LetsGetTrivial wrote:
Just a quick note for possible international transactions. The USPS has increased rates and generally screwed with our international shipping.


Well... yes and no...

The GOOD NEWS:

International shipping is greatly simplified. Essentially, there is only ONE class of mail that any of us will care about, and that is "PRIORITY MAIL INTERNATIONAL" (unless you ship "Global Express Mail", but that's *very* expensive). There is no more "Surface Mail International" shipping, but no one used that anyway, as it could take up to 10 weeks to deliver, and it wasn't much cheaper.

AND even BETTER NEWS:

US Postal Service now offers "FLAT RATE SHIPPING" internationally. You can put as much as you can fit into one of the USPS's freely-provided "Flat Rate Boxes" (same ones as you use for domestic shipping), and it costs the same price. Weight limit internationally is 20 pounds (domestically it is 70 pounds).

Now here is where the news is not so good...

BAD NEWS:

The prices went up for PRIORITY MAIL INTERNATIONAL. cry

If you use the Flat Rate boxes, the cost is:
- To Canada and Mexico: $23.00
- To all other countries: $37.00
(again, this is for anything you can fit into one of the two types of Flat Rate Boxes, and up to 20 pounds).

... HOWEVER, if your item is under 5 or 6 pounds (depending upon where it is going on the globa), you can still use your own boxes, and the cost will be LESS than the above for the flat rate boxes.

The Flat Rate boxes are great for shipping CCG booster and starter display boxes, for instance. I just sent out FIVE shipments internationally this morning, each having 1 to 3 CCG booster boxes in them, to Australia, Isreal, and France, and with the exception of ONE of the five that had only a single booster box, the cheapest shipping was the "Flat Rate boxes". [If you care, the boosters were from V:TES and Jyhad, just in case any of you are intersted in buying some too... ]

So, generally, for board games, we are sort of screwed:
- The shipping prices definitely went UP, AND
- Not all board games fit into the Flat Rate Boxes (though many do), AND
- Even if the game fits into the Flat Rate box, unless it weighs more than 5 pounds or so, it will probably be more economical to ship in your own box... but it will still cost close to the figures that I gave above... You can surely expect to pay $20 for most games shipped to Canada and $30 for most games shipped to Europe and Australia.

Oh well... yuk

Best,
Stephen, "The Evil One"
--"TEO"

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Michael Leuchtenburg
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Yeah, the shipping changes rather bite. I'll continue shipping to other countries as I did before - paying the first $10 of the shipping costs - but I expect there to be fewer international trades, particularly between Canada and the US where the shipping costs before were comparable to those domestically but are now significantly higher.

I wonder if any of the other courier services now give better prices for international shipping. Has anyone checked this? I prefer to do all of my shipping through USPS because there's one less than a mile from my house, but I could get to a UPS or FedEx depot.
 
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Rik Van Horn
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At the request of another math trade participant, I went to my local PO today to price shipping one of my games to Germany.
The international priority rate was $28 for a less than 2 pound box, but that rate includes up to $65 insurance automatically.

The lowest rate was $21.60, but had no insurance options at all.

I was also told that if I could make the box smaller (a possibility in this case) the cost would be even less.
 
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Cindy
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Can I delete one of my entries and replace it with another before the deadline? Or am I obligated to keep that game on the list?

 
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Carl Anderson
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CinMel wrote:
Can I delete one of my entries and replace it with another before the deadline? Or am I obligated to keep that game on the list?


Math trade etiquette would seem to suggest that you must keep the game on the list until the end of the trade.

That said, there's nothing that I can do to "enforce" this.
 
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Cindy
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carl67lp wrote:
CinMel wrote:
Can I delete one of my entries and replace it with another before the deadline? Or am I obligated to keep that game on the list?


Math trade etiquette would seem to suggest that you must keep the game on the list until the end of the trade.

That said, there's nothing that I can do to "enforce" this.


Thank you, I was just checking....

 
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Davido
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carl67lp wrote:
CinMel wrote:
Can I delete one of my entries and replace it with another before the deadline? Or am I obligated to keep that game on the list?


Math trade etiquette would seem to suggest that you must keep the game on the list until the end of the trade.

That said, there's nothing that I can do to "enforce" this.


Even though there are "want list generators" that may or may not be utilized, I keep a 'running' track of list number/game names, so a deletion 'hoses the list'. If you want the game deleted, let Carl know and he'll put a big fat "game removed" on the final summary list that we use for our wants.

Thanks for checking.

[edit]: I see you want to *replace* one game w/another-a simple edit that does not affect the order of other list items. Still, to be safe, keep it there, notify Carl, and add your new game as normal.

not the list-mod, just my .02
 
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Carl Anderson
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davido wrote:
carl67lp wrote:
CinMel wrote:
Can I delete one of my entries and replace it with another before the deadline? Or am I obligated to keep that game on the list?


Math trade etiquette would seem to suggest that you must keep the game on the list until the end of the trade.

That said, there's nothing that I can do to "enforce" this.


Even though there are "want list generators" that may or may not be utilized, I keep a 'running' track of list number/game names, so a deletion 'hoses the list'. If you want the game deleted, let Carl know and he'll put a big fat "game removed" on the final summary list that we use for our wants.

Thanks for checking.


Indeed, Cindy, thanks for checking.

I've asked JeffyJeff if we can use his wantlist generator doo-dad. I skimmed his response but it seemed non-committal. (If so, it's totally understandable.)

I might take my laptop to Vegas with me tomorrow and write my own, but I doubt that'll happen!
 
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Michael Leuchtenburg
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carl67lp wrote:
CinMel wrote:
Can I delete one of my entries and replace it with another before the deadline? Or am I obligated to keep that game on the list?


Math trade etiquette would seem to suggest that you must keep the game on the list until the end of the trade.

That said, there's nothing that I can do to "enforce" this.


Huh? I don't see why you would say that it must stay on the list until the end of the trade. In a math trade without limits, it wouldn't matter, since she could just submit an empty want list for it. However, with the limits in place, deleting a game which you've changed your mind about trading could be useful since it would free up a slot for a different game.

So why should a game, once entered, be required to stay on the list? Sure, it'd be frustrating to see a game you wanted vanish, but it being on the list doesn't guarantee that you'll have a chance at it since the trader could submit a blank want list for it anyway. Also, I don't think that math trade etiquette requires not posting things which you think are unlikely to trade because you're unlikely to see what you'd accept for them.
 
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Carl Anderson
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dyfrgi wrote:
carl67lp wrote:
CinMel wrote:
Can I delete one of my entries and replace it with another before the deadline? Or am I obligated to keep that game on the list?


Math trade etiquette would seem to suggest that you must keep the game on the list until the end of the trade.

That said, there's nothing that I can do to "enforce" this.


Huh? I don't see why you would say that it must stay on the list until the end of the trade. In a math trade without limits, it wouldn't matter, since she could just submit an empty want list for it. However, with the limits in place, deleting a game which you've changed your mind about trading could be useful since it would free up a slot for a different game.

So why should a game, once entered, be required to stay on the list? Sure, it'd be frustrating to see a game you wanted vanish, but it being on the list doesn't guarantee that you'll have a chance at it since the trader could submit a blank want list for it anyway. Also, I don't think that math trade etiquette requires not posting things which you think are unlikely to trade because you're unlikely to see what you'd accept for them.


I think it's etiquette for the exact reason you mention in the second sentence of your second paragraph.

Personally, I'm fine with removal of games--but that's my personal feeling. I look over the list as it's in flux, but I don't commit anything to my want list until I see what all is up.

For example, two people might have RoboRally up (a game I really want, wink wink), and later person #2 might add a tasty sweetener. If I'd already "mentally" committed to person #1, I'd be out of the running for the supposedly better one.

THAT SAID, I think Michael raises the best argument, that with limits it'd be a good idea to be able to swap games around. If that's the case, I give my official blessing to this practice.

But I still stand behind the no-deletion clause. Exchanges are okay, deletions are not.

Clear as mud?
 
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Amy O'Neal
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dyfrgi wrote:
carl67lp wrote:
CinMel wrote:
Can I delete one of my entries and replace it with another before the deadline? Or am I obligated to keep that game on the list?


Math trade etiquette would seem to suggest that you must keep the game on the list until the end of the trade.

That said, there's nothing that I can do to "enforce" this.


Huh? I don't see why you would say that it must stay on the list until the end of the trade. In a math trade without limits, it wouldn't matter, since she could just submit an empty want list for it. However, with the limits in place, deleting a game which you've changed your mind about trading could be useful since it would free up a slot for a different game.

So why should a game, once entered, be required to stay on the list? Sure, it'd be frustrating to see a game you wanted vanish, but it being on the list doesn't guarantee that you'll have a chance at it since the trader could submit a blank want list for it anyway. Also, I don't think that math trade etiquette requires not posting things which you think are unlikely to trade because you're unlikely to see what you'd accept for them.


I'd rather see a swap in the game... If you delete a game, it screws up those of us who write down what we are interested in as the list is being built... Ex. Game#26 on the list is Fearsome Floors... I write that down on my (possible) want list... Later game #23 gets deleted, and the game I want is not #26 anymore... It's really confusing to us... I'd rather see a game that has no want list sent for it than for the game to be deleted... My $0.02...
 
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Cindy
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Thank you all for the insight in the question that I asked.... I never thought it would have so much discussion around it (just thought it was a simple yes or no answer)... I've been doing what everyone else has been doing and writing down the numbers of the items that I might be interested in... so I wouldn't want to screw up the numbers...

I guess my main question was if I could swap out the game with another, but I see that could cause problems also... when I asked the question, I never even thought of entering a no game want list for that particular game...

I will keep my listings as is, and just might add a few more



 
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Carl Anderson
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CinMel wrote:
Thank you all for the insight in the question that I asked.... I never thought it would have so much discussion around it (just thought it was a simple yes or no answer)... I've been doing what everyone else has been doing and writing down the numbers of the items that I might be interested in... so I wouldn't want to screw up the numbers...

I guess my main question was if I could swap out the game with another, but I see that could cause problems also... when I asked the question, I never even thought of entering a no game want list for that particular game...

I will keep my listings as is, and just might add a few more


Like I mentioned before--if you still want to do a swap, please feel free.
 
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John Blackham
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dyfrgi wrote:
Yeah, the shipping changes rather bite. I'll continue shipping to other countries as I did before - paying the first $10 of the shipping costs - but I expect there to be fewer international trades, particularly between Canada and the US where the shipping costs before were comparable to those domestically but are now significantly higher.

I wonder if any of the other courier services now give better prices for international shipping. Has anyone checked this? I prefer to do all of my shipping through USPS because there's one less than a mile from my house, but I could get to a UPS or FedEx depot.



Fedex and UPS have a habit of charging us Canadians a ridiculous amount of money just to receive the game. Fedex tried to charge me $57CDN to receive Mykerino's which was in a box not much bigger than the game itself, I can buy it brand new for just under $30CDN here. I've heard from others that the this is pretty common, though it's not always such a large amount of money. I've recieved many games from the states via USPS and only been charged once, $13 for 'I'm the Boss'. USPS to Canada is the way to go


 
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Amy O'Neal
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dyfrgi wrote:
Yeah, the shipping changes rather bite. I'll continue shipping to other countries as I did before - paying the first $10 of the shipping costs - but I expect there to be fewer international trades, particularly between Canada and the US where the shipping costs before were comparable to those domestically but are now significantly higher.

I wonder if any of the other courier services now give better prices for international shipping. Has anyone checked this? I prefer to do all of my shipping through USPS because there's one less than a mile from my house, but I could get to a UPS or FedEx depot.


I'm with you on this... I personally don't think it's fair to exclude someone from a game just because they live elsewhere... My personal feeling... I'm sticking with the Free to North America... I'll cover the first $10 elsewhere... that I've been using since I started doing math trades...
 
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Stephen Roney
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janiera wrote:
I personally don't think it's fair to exclude someone from a game just because they live elsewhere... My personal feeling... I'm sticking with the Free to North America... I'll cover the first $10 elsewhere... that I've been using since I started doing math trades...


Well, mine was always free to US, first $10 (sometimes $15) elsewhere. $10 was just $0.15 shy of being enough to ship Shear Panic from So Cal to Ottawa a couple of weeks ago. I suspect that it would be quite a bit more now.
 
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Jeff Michaud
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carl67lp wrote:
I've asked JeffyJeff if we can use his wantlist generator doo-dad. I skimmed his response but it seemed non-committal. (If so, it's totally understandable.)

Didn't mean to sound non-committal, only non-committal in how much of the functionality could be available (which is what I mean when I replied that "it should still be usable in at least particial capacity"). Ie. I haven't made any changes since the last math trade based on the feedback received.

In any case, it's setup for this math trade if folks want to use it. To those who don't know what the tool is see:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/159648

Jeff

ps: I don't have a cronjob setup to have the tool automatically re-snapshot the geeklist. So updates to the geeklist won't happen overnight when my computer is shutdown, but I'll set it up so that when my computer is on it will refresh once an hour.
 
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arl67lp wrote:
Play at home is allowed and encouraged. However, I reserve the right to use my own results file if there is any suspicion of tampering with the submitted results file or otherwise. The "official" results will be that with the highest number of trades, or with the lowest UNIX sum. (I'll allow the tech gurus to assist on this latter point, if it becomes necessary. I don't think it will--I'm well-versed enough in these matters.)

I've given it some thought since the last math trade and think a good 1st level tie breaker may be the one with the most chains... the idea being that if there is a problem with the results and it's isolated to a single chain, the result set (of those tied) with the most chains will have the smallest average chain length... a smaller chain means a problem would affect fewer folks.

You probably remember (since yours was one of those tied ) that in the last math trade there was a 3 way tie... I too hadn't expected a tie so hadn't put a lot of thought into it as I wasn't expecting to have to use it.

Jeff
 
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Jeff Michaud
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Regarding removing a geeklist item.... the wantlist generator tool should be able to handle it... though I'm not exactly sure how it will show up... I think what you'll see is that the item name and description disappear but the item will still show up in the editor's table format.

Changing a geeklist item... ie. changing the game id... that's a different problem... a user will currently have to notice that themselves when they are in the tool... so I don't recommend it. Some day (when there are more hours in a day ) I'd like to have the tool catch it and warn a user not only if a game id changes for an item on their working want list, but if the item was edited at all, comments added, etc.

In any case, if you are changing an item by adding the replacement as a new item, and not deleting the old item... I would suggest at least still editing it... maybe changing the game id to 23953 (outside the scope of bgg), or maybe even changing the item type all together, and making sure the item description says something like "this item has been withdrawn from the math trade".
 
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Carl Anderson
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JeffyJeff wrote:
carl67lp wrote:
I've asked JeffyJeff if we can use his wantlist generator doo-dad. I skimmed his response but it seemed non-committal. (If so, it's totally understandable.)

Didn't mean to sound non-committal, only non-committal in how much of the functionality could be available (which is what I mean when I replied that "it should still be usable in at least particial capacity"). Ie. I haven't made any changes since the last math trade based on the feedback received.

In any case, it's setup for this math trade if folks want to use it. To those who don't know what the tool is see:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/159648

Jeff

ps: I don't have a cronjob setup to have the tool automatically re-snapshot the geeklist. So updates to the geeklist won't happen overnight when my computer is shutdown, but I'll set it up so that when my computer is on it will refresh once an hour.


Yes, you're right--I misread your note. It was a busy day at work today!

Thanks a million for making it available!
 
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