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Subject: Who on earth is rating more than 7200 games to a 1 during one month? rss

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Carlos Luna
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Well, my 2 cents as a mathematician:

E Aggregating people's opinions is a complete mess.

More often than not this is because the "group consensus" does not exist at all so whatever we do to measure it can be easily criticized as inaccurate.

This cannot be avoided even in the most serious settings (such as electoral processes) so expect it to happen in less formal places (such as the BGG rating system).

This does not mean that we should avoid criticizing the current BGG rating implementation but you should take into account that there is not an universally acceptable answer to the problem that you are pointing.

This being said, I'm quite sure that the BGG rating works "well enough" for those games that have been rated by "enough" users (as one of my teachers told me: Statistics starts with N=30).

If you want to deepen further into this topic I suggest you to follow the Bayesian estimation path by reading these articles:

https://districtdatalabs.silvrback.com/computing-a-bayesian-...

http://www.evanmiller.org/how-not-to-sort-by-average-rating....
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milomilo122 wrote:

I was wondering about that. One of my own favorite designs was rated a 1 by him and I was like "how can I like this game so much and this dude thinks it's a complete bust?"
Is this the first time you've ever encountered someone who completely disagrees with you?

Why would you care at all about his opinion?

You are aware, aren't you, that there is a significant portion of people in the world who are just idiots?
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Fred 100 wrote:
What upsets me is the irrationality and injustice of the whole thing. And yes, I know there is irrationality and injustice in the world and, no, I don't get over it. Why do you?
Nothing "unjust" is being done here. I "get over it" because it has as much significance to my life as which brand of toilet paper my next-door neighbor buys.

There's someone out there who hates your favorite movie. Someone loves the music you can't stand. People exist that have the diametric opposite political views you do. There are lots of customers for the restaurant whose food makes you vomit just to smell it.

And yet there are people out there who continue to make movies and music and political action and food, despite the existence of their critics.

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And, finally, if his behavior is acceptable, why shouldn't everyone rate 98 % of all the games they come across on BGG a "1"?
Because they have something more productive to do with their time, perhaps.
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Nathan James
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The podcasters on Flip the Table sometimes close their episodes by playing the "IMDB Rating Game," in which contestants attempts to guess the ratings of some obscure movie described by the host. Hilarity ensues. It's very difficult to predict and a major factor to consider is always "who will have seen this and bothered to rate it?"
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Phil Fleischmann wrote:
milomilo122 wrote:

I was wondering about that. One of my own favorite designs was rated a 1 by him and I was like "how can I like this game so much and this dude thinks it's a complete bust?"
Is this the first time you've ever encountered someone who completely disagrees with you?

Why would you care at all about his opinion?

You are aware, aren't you, that there is a significant portion of people in the world who are just idiots?

most of the time the only people who even *know* about my games are predisposed to like them. Not many people go out of their way to play incredibly obscure abstract games if they dislike them so much. It's unusual for me.
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milomilo122 wrote:
Phil Fleischmann wrote:
You are aware, aren't you, that there is a significant portion of people in the world who are just idiots?

most of the time the only people who even *know* about my games are predisposed to like them. Not many people go out of their way to play incredibly obscure abstract games if they dislike them so much. It's unusual for me.
Idiots with an agenda are the misery of the world. And unfortunately their appearance is not exactly unusual.
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Luis Bolaños Mures
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The lesson a stoic would take from this:

"This is great! My game has made such a splash that even people who hate abstract games have been so acutely exposed to it that they couldn't look the other way anymore and felt the urge to rate it a 1 on the Internet!"
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milomilo122 wrote:
most of the time the only people who even *know* about my games are predisposed to like them. Not many people go out of their way to play incredibly obscure abstract games if they dislike them so much. It's unusual for me.
I think it's unusual that a "1" rating actually involves someone having played the game. Most of the "1" ratings I usually see seem to be obviously made by people who have not played the game and are rating it "1" for some other reason. (E.g. the user I linked to upthread who seems to fancy himself a caustic comedian or something.)
 
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I have 63 1 ratings that I consider legitimate and which mostly fall into three categories: games with no player decisions, trivially solvable/indecisive abstracts, and dexterity toys.
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Timothy Young
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russ wrote:
(E.g. the user I linked to upthread who seems to fancy himself a caustic comedian or something.)

Heh heh- I remember coming across that account once before. Seems clear to me that it's a sock puppet belonging to someone with an axe to grind.
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Well my take on it is, I have to thank this gaming expert for saving me a lot of money in the future and helping me with my boardgame addiction.

Since I have no reason to believe that he has not personally played all 7200+ games that he has rated, and consequently has provided a 1 rating on all these games with no written reason as to why he rated them as 1, I have to assume that all 7200+ games were so terrible they didn't deserve a comment, and thus are not for me to buy.

I wish I had seen his rating for the nearly 800 that I already own before I bought them. I could have added a new extension to my house several years ago. Heck, I might not have ever gotten into boardgaming to begin with based on his sage advice! Oh where were you then?!?!

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mrraow wrote:
Maybe we could have a special designer geek badge - "I've been rated 1 by smjj" (Sleepers in my case)?

By this point EVERY designer has this honor!
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I wonder if you completely change the rating number system. Instead of me rating each game with some number from 1-10, which means different things to different people, I rank my games against each other. This would generate a list of my games in order of preference.

If you combine everyone's rankings like this then, you could then translate it back to a number score.

You could make it more or less complicated. For example, I want to rate a game, and the system asks me if I like it more or less than another one of my games in that 'category' of games.

Just a thought...
 
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An even simpler adjustment with a similar effect would be to subtract a player's average rating (across all the games she's rated) from each of her ratings. I'll bet that would tamp down cult of the new considerably.
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mocko wrote:

... I still reserve the right to kick the cat

You KICK A CAT??!!
 
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milomilo122 wrote:
An even simpler adjustment with a similar effect would be to subtract a player's average rating (across all the games she's rated) from each of her ratings. I'll bet that would tamp down cult of the new considerably.

So... if I want my 10's to have the greatest possible impact on the ratings, then I need to go out and rate 10,000+ games a 1...
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macbeth77 wrote:
milomilo122 wrote:
An even simpler adjustment with a similar effect would be to subtract a player's average rating (across all the games she's rated) from each of her ratings. I'll bet that would tamp down cult of the new considerably.

So... if I want my 10's to have the greatest possible impact on the ratings, then I need to go out and rate 10,000+ games a 1...

But on the flip side, all those 1s would rate as average
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Nathan James
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One way around the problem might be to make any and all ratings show up as positive. In other words, some system in which rating a game a 1 would only help it's rank, albeit slightly.

The downside of that would be that any game frequently rated, even if widely reviled would look great next to unknown games.
 
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Carlos Luna
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After reading several alternative ranking system proposals in this thread and others I reaffirm myself:

CarlosLuna wrote:
Aggregating people's opinions is a complete mess.

Seriously guys, it is a REALLY difficult question and every time you "solve" a "problem" you do it by creating several new problems (note the absence of quotation marks).
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CarlosLuna wrote:
After reading several alternative ranking system proposals in this thread and others I reaffirm myself:

CarlosLuna wrote:
Aggregating people's opinions is a complete mess.

Seriously guys, it is a REALLY difficult question and every time you "solve" a "problem" you do it by creating several new problems (note the absence of quotation marks).
A good book on a similar topic is Gaming the Vote.
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Venser wrote:
CarlosLuna wrote:
After reading several alternative ranking system proposals in this thread and others I reaffirm myself:

CarlosLuna wrote:
Aggregating people's opinions is a complete mess.

Seriously guys, it is a REALLY difficult question and every time you "solve" a "problem" you do it by creating several new problems (note the absence of quotation marks).
A good book on a similar topic is Gaming the Vote.

That book illustrates that, though aggregating opinions is a mess, there are definitely better and worse ways to do it. So while it's true that each solution has its own problems, that's no excuse for not pursuing the good ones, especially if the status quo is a particularly bad one (which it is on BGG)
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A really good solution would be for BGG to provide a tool for automatically populating your geekbuddies list with people whose tastes correlate with your own. This is what people already do manually but it's super time consuming.
 
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milomilo122 wrote:
A really good solution would be for BGG to provide a tool for automatically populating your geekbuddies list with people whose tastes correlate with your own.

That's not really what I've done. My list is populated with people who rated and commented many games, and whose comments are comparatively substantial: it's those comments I'm after more than the exact numerical ratings. Agreeing with me or with each other on stuff isn't among the requirements.

The correlation tool you want already exists as a third party application here:

http://korttipeliopas.fi/korttipelit/bgg/correlation.php

Unfortunately the interface is breaking down so you have to jump through some hoops to get it to work.
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Kaffedrake wrote:

Unfortunately the interface is breaking down so you have to jump through some hoops to get it to work.

yup. and it wasn't a very good tool to begin. to have BGG do it automatically would be a dramatic, qualitative improvement.
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All of you who are upset by this please leave a list of games that would anger you if given a 1 ratting. Thanks.+
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