Recommend
12 
 Thumb up
 Hide
89 Posts
Prev «  1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 

Abstract Games» Forums » General

Subject: Who on earth is rating more than 7200 games to a 1 during one month? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: smjj [+] ratings [+] [View All]
Interests > Animals > Birds > National > Canada >
Sweden
flag msg tools
Help, I'm being held prisoner in an overtext typing facility! I don't have much time, they could find out at any m
badge
I'm that weirdo whose number of badges sold prior to yesterday Bail Organa is keeping track of
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
milomilo122 wrote:
Kaffedrake wrote:

Unfortunately the interface is breaking down so you have to jump through some hoops to get it to work.


yup. and it wasn't a very good tool to begin. to have BGG do it automatically would be a dramatic, qualitative improvement.


Still seems like just the kind of project users should take into their own hands instead of wait for BGG to spend seemingly limited coding and design efforts on years from now.

broken clock wrote:
All of you who are upset by this please leave a list of games that would anger you if given a 1 ratting. Thanks.+


If you rated every Kickstarter game a 1 I would be so bummed. Oh no. Especially the skirmish games with plastic miniatures, all one or two of them. Please don't etc.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
So it goes.
United States
Burke
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
broken clock wrote:
All of you who are upset by this please leave a list of games that would anger you if given a 1 ratting. Thanks.+


1.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nathan James
United States
Covington
Ohio
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmb
The rating system could partially discount users whose ratings differ too much from a normal distribution. This would fix a lot of problems in the ratings, though not all.

After all, if a user rates everything an 8, then their ratings tell us literally nothing.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
NJames wrote:
The rating system could partially discount users whose ratings differ too much from a normal distribution. This would fix a lot of problems in the ratings, though not all.

After all, if a user rates everything an 8, then their ratings tell us literally nothing.


Sure, someone who rates everything the same gives no information, but that's an extreme case. If their ratings follow some nontrivial distribution (instead of rating everything the same), then they surely tell us something.

I don't see why we should expect everyone's ratings to be similar to a normal distribution. (Of course it may depend on what you mean by differing "too much" from a normal distribution...)

If someone is competent at predicting whether they'll like a game and avoids trying games they probably won't love, then their distribution will be skewed with lots of good ratings and a very low tail of bad ratings.

Also there are a lot of users who feel guilty giving low ratings and intentionally choose not to rate a game instead of giving it a low rating.

And there are some users who choose to use only a few of the possible rating values, maybe even only 2 values (meaning "like" and "don't like", for instance).

Probably other such common cases I'm not thinking of at the moment would also give non-normal distributions.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nathan James
United States
Covington
Ohio
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmb
True.

Quote:
If someone is competent at predicting whether they'll like a game and avoids trying games they probably won't love, then their distribution will be skewed with lots of good ratings and a very low tail of bad ratings.


Still, I wonder whether this isn't less information than it appears to be, without calling the legitimacy of the ratings into question.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Interests > Animals > Birds > National > Canada >
Sweden
flag msg tools
Help, I'm being held prisoner in an overtext typing facility! I don't have much time, they could find out at any m
badge
I'm that weirdo whose number of badges sold prior to yesterday Bail Organa is keeping track of
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
russ wrote:
Probably other such common cases I'm not thinking of at the moment would also give non-normal distributions.


One being the idea that it's much more useful to finely distinguish between games you like than between games you don't like, so the whole range of "games you hate" to "games you think are OK" can be captured adequately with steps 1 to about 3 or 4, and only after that do you begin to slot in the good to great ones.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Moxham
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mb
broken clock wrote:
All of you who are upset by this please leave a list of games that would anger you if given a 1 ratting. Thanks.+

A beautiful typo. A "ratting" perfectly encapsulates the experience from the receiving end. And nothing could make me rattier angry

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fred W. Manzo
United States
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb

Why not use some odd number in the middle of the range? Say, I gave 10,000 games I wasn't interested in a rating of "7.11" or "6.99" That would be a signal to me that they are not to my liking, but it won't hammer new publishers and their new games unnecessarily. That is, it wouldn't skew the only number most people judge a game on, it's highlighted average.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eurojuegos Buenos Aires
Argentina
Buenos Aires
Capital Federal
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yep, but doing that wouldn't be just mean.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Keane
United States
Medford
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
Why no vitriol for all the people that Kickstart a game and give it a 9 or 10, often with a comment like "So excited to try this. Can't wait until it arrives!" I'm over this issue and commend smjj for showing that average ratings are meaningless and easily manipulated. The rating for a game with 5 votes is especially meaningless, whether it's skewed low by an arbitrary 1, or skewed high by a biased 10. Find users that rate lots of games and have similar tastes as you and then geekbuddy them. Read detailed comments for games across the rating spectrum. That's how BGG's rating system can be useful.
3 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Norris
United States
Blacksburg
Virginia
flag msg tools
Insert witty and self aware quote here
badge
Show how culturally relevant I am by writing a well written joke or meme reference
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Maybe they think 1 is the highest?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Dyer
United States
Playa Del Rey
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

How about using economics? Suppose ratings cost 10GG
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
ddyer wrote:

How about using economics? Suppose ratings cost 10GG

Then there'd be a lot fewer ratings, which overall seems bad, since most of the ratings seem relatively useful. I rather suspect many people would not bother rating if they had to spend GG for each rating they give, and there are plenty of people who don't have much GG in the first place but still give useful ratings.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Timothy Young
United States
Ogden
UT
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
russ wrote:
ddyer wrote:

How about using economics? Suppose ratings cost 10GG

Then there'd be a lot fewer ratings, which overall seems bad, since most of the ratings seem relatively useful. I rather suspect many people would not bother rating if they had to spend GG for each rating they give, and there are plenty of people who don't have much GG in the first place but still give useful ratings.


Yeah- pay-to-play seems disenfranchising. Let the people have their say!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Dyer
United States
Playa Del Rey
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There's precious little useful to do with GG. There needs to be
more of an economy of GG to make them useful.
 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Boggs
United States
Louisville
KY
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Econometric view: for the computed averages, remove outliers from the calculation.

Form follows function.

We must ask ourselves the purpose of having the aggregated votes... To see what the majority of players feel?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David G. Cox Esq.
Australia
Lighthouse Beach
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Do what you can, with what you've got, where you are.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
russ wrote:
You can see for yourself that the user is Smjj.

Long story short:

1. Officially users are free to rate however they like as long as they don't create multiple accounts to rate multiple times.

2. Admins are discussing this specific unusual situation and apparently contacting the user Smjj.

Search the BGG forums for "smjj" and you'll find many recent discussions about that user's ratings if you want more details.

E.g. see BGG Ratings for an example of many such threads.


smjj? Is that Donald Trump's account?

5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rey Alicea
United States
New Jersey
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What if there was a way to rate a rater? If that person gets low marks from everyone else his rating is dropped.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Holman
United States
Philadelphia
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
russ wrote:

I don't see why we should expect everyone's ratings to be similar to a normal distribution. (Of course it may depend on what you mean by differing "too much" from a normal distribution...)

If someone is competent at predicting whether they'll like a game and avoids trying games they probably won't love, then their distribution will be skewed with lots of good ratings and a very low tail of bad ratings.

Also there are a lot of users who feel guilty giving low ratings and intentionally choose not to rate a game instead of giving it a low rating.


This. I think experienced gamers can tell something isn't for them before they invest any time in it, and they can smell a 3, 2, or 1 a mile away. Imposing normal distribution implies that we should play obvious dogs to balance out the winners.

However, that being said, I just looked at my numbers and realize that they actually *do* look not too far from a normal distribution. But this is because I've rated as low some games I played years ago (before I knew what I know now). I would expect continued "curve inflation" in the future not because I'm being lenient but because I now know better what I'm likely to like.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
reyalicea wrote:
What if there was a way to rate a rater? If that person gets low marks from everyone else his rating is dropped.


This will inevitably lead to the next controversially discussed topic: "Who on earth is rating more than 7200 users to a 1 during one month?"
9 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter BOSCO'S
United States
Anchorage
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
What if it cost 5 GG to rate something but you got 7 GG 30 days later?

This way people would have a slight incentive to rate games but the number of games they could rate at one time would be a function of their overall reputation here.
2 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Boscos wrote:
What if it cost 5 GG to rate something but you got 7 GG 30 days later?

This way people would have a slight incentive to rate games but the number of games they could rate at one time would be a function of their overall reputation here.

Incentivizing people to rate seems dubious to me. I suspect that it would encourage some people to rate (without having played games) just to get more GG.

(Like paying programmers per lines of code they write...)
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
L. SCHMITT
France
Alsace
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What would allow us to rate a rater ? Hey this one says crap of my favorite games, just give him a bad rating ?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David G. Cox Esq.
Australia
Lighthouse Beach
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Do what you can, with what you've got, where you are.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
While not trying to justify the actions of really stupid people, ratings are subjective. Ratings can also be variable.

My four-year old granddaughter would rate Snakes & Ladders a 9 or a 10. If she were to play World in Flames with Wendell, she would almost certainly rate it very low.

I am very happy to play Snakes & Ladders with the granddaughter and WiF with Wendell.

Does it bother me if people rate my favourite game, Empires in Arms, a 1? Not at all.

Low ratings of favourite games do not diminish me as a person.

I don't even use ratings as a purchasing tool. I use my GeekBuddy Analysis.

5 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Bentley
United States
Madison
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
da pyrate wrote:
While not trying to justify the actions of really stupid people, ratings are subjective. Ratings can also be variable.

My four-year old granddaughter would rate Snakes & Ladders a 9 or a 10. If she were to play World in Flames with Wendell, she would almost certainly rate it very low.

I am very happy to play Snakes & Ladders with the granddaughter and WiF with Wendell.

Does it bother me if people rate my favourite game, Empires in Arms, a 1? Not at all.

Low ratings of favourite games do not diminish me as a person.

I don't even use ratings as a purchasing tool. I use my GeekBuddy Analysis.



This isn't a small point; it's the most salient feature of the entire dataset. The variances around the means are large compared to the differences between the means. The only way to even hope to get predictive info about what you'll like is through your geek buddy ratings list. (Though I still think it's a good idea to normalize each user's ratings by the average of their ratings. It's easy and would clean up the data in significant ways.)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Prev «  1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   |