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Subject: First crack at an Overlord vs Overlord skirmish rss

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James Song
United States
California
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My friend and I had two Overlord Book of Skelos between us, so we tried a first attempt at a skirmish mode that pits Overlord vs. Overlord. We used only Overlord tiles (no Hero character sheets).

Here's the first draft of the point cost and setup rules we used: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8pGFj6LlYZwTFJ5VWpYZlFrRk...

I built a Pict army (Pict Hunters, Archers, Warriors, and Hyenas) led by Zogar Sag. My friend used a core of Bossonian Guards and Archers, led by Conan and a Captain.

Both games ended up being very close, with each army capturing their theme perfectly. Picts swarmed with masses of cheap Hunters, with fast hyenas trying to screen and flank. Bossonian guards would advance in tight formation to shield heroes and archers.

The second game was extremely tight, with Conan risking a last turn jump from a castle wall to make a circular strike that ended up pushing the Aquilonians to a narrow victory in the tie-breaker.
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Rob

Tennessee
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Great idea. I've often thought about hero vs hero skirmish, but not OL vs OL. Glad to see it went well.
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A L
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This looks great! It's funny, because I don't believe heroes and gear can be point-costed for scenario building but in this case point costing can actually work.

I'd be curious to see how skew lists play out, like all high armor vs. tons of cheap units with reinforcing events.
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Carmen Cerra
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Ames
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This sounds like a great 2-player variant!
Thanks for the idea and report.
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Dave Smith
United Kingdom
Gillingham
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We done the same but on an actual wargames table with measurements. The only problem we had was finding how difficult it was for basic Picts to punch through A2 armour, so halfway through decided that all strikes were circular and you added up all the dice from the unit as one attack.

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James Song
United States
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Major Mishap wrote:
The only problem we had was finding how difficult it was for basic Picts to punch through A2 armour, so halfway through decided that all strikes were circular and you added up all the dice from the unit as one attack.
This was our conclusion too, which is why we added the rule for combining two figures' attack dice for the cost of 1 gem. With the Pict Hunters combining for 4 yellow die with 4 re-rolls, they could really threaten most units, even those with 3 armor. Gem management was a crucial element in all our tests.

Those units with circular strike were generally limited to "heroes/leaders" which would activate individually, thus not gaining the advantage of a combined dice pool.
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Vince De Zutter
Belgium
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Great idea! I glanced over the rules and have a few "questions".

- Why is the armor cost only 2 per point? I'm thinking f.e. how hard it would be to kill Khosatral Khel, even with the "join two attacks" rule (which I would, also for this example, not limit to two characters of the same unit but alter so an entire unit can attack in sync or two heroes can combine attacks). Seems like there's no way in the current system to even damage Khel. A perfect 4 reds throw would just bounce off him.

- Why are different colored skills more expensive? I can see how reds are "most" expensive since they have the highest effect on combat effectiveness, but Blocker, Evasive and Feline Grace only costing 1 point seems a bit cheap, considering their effect on the flow of the game.

- I would honestly make spellcasting "free" and add cost values to each individual spell. This would also allow spellcasters to take multiple spells and be the "main" hero of the army. I do agree that area spells need to be more expensive. This would probably take a lot more time to work out, though.

- The heroes HP system seems oddly imbalanced - or I'm not understanding it right. This would make already powerful heroes even more powerful, f.e. Khosatral Khel (sorry for using the most imbalanced tile as an example) would get 24 hp out of his armor cost alone. That makes him an instant "I win" tile. That or I'm misunderstanding the HP rules. Seems "cleaner" to give set HP values, let's say 5 HP per hero.

Apart from those four things though, this is a perfect system. I'll definitely test this out this weekend. Thanks for the work you put into this.
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PaweĊ‚ Bedz
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Hansando wrote:
Pict Hunters combining for 4 yellow die with 4 re-rolls, they could really threaten most units, even those with 3 armor. Gem management was a crucial element in all our tests.
Be aware that you do not have 4 re-rolls. You roll 4 dice and you can re-roll each dice only once
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A L
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Vinceness wrote:

- The heroes HP system seems oddly imbalanced - or I'm not understanding it right. This would make already powerful heroes even more powerful, f.e. Khosatral Khel (sorry for using the most imbalanced tile as an example) would get 24 hp out of his armor cost alone. That makes him an instant "I win" tile. That or I'm misunderstanding the HP rules. Seems "cleaner" to give set HP values, let's say 5 HP per hero.

The way I understood this to work is that only the first health point is assumed (1 wound = dead) and if you want a model to have additional health you need to pay the entire cost of a tile for each health point.

So for instance, Zaporavo costs (I believe) 23 points using this system. Each Health point you want to give him past the first costs an additional 23 points. As you can see, Khosatral Khel would eat up a lot of your 300 points.

This does bring up a good point though - as written there is no minimum tile count, so you can cheese the game by just creating one super-powerful tile, activating on 1 or 2 gems each round, and prevent the opponent from being able to win by bloodying 5 of your tiles since you don't have 5 to bloody.

Maybe later I'll make up some army list combos to see how far the 300 point cap can stretch if there were, say, a 6 tile minimum.
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James Song
United States
California
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LegoMech wrote:

The way I understood this to work is that only the first health point is assumed (1 wound = dead) and if you want a model to have additional health you need to pay the entire cost of a tile for each health point.

This does bring up a good point though - as written there is no minimum tile count, so you can cheese the game by just creating one super-powerful tile, activating on 1 or 2 gems each round, and prevent the opponent from being able to win by bloodying 5 of your tiles since you don't have 5 to bloody.

That's correct, you pay the tile cost for each additional HP.

There is a minimum tile restriction under the "Army Building" section. You must take a minimum of 5 unit tiles (plus 1 event tile).

To answer the other questions on the thread:

- Khosatrel Krel is a very special case. No other unit in the game currently has that much armor. Our play group decided that if Khosatrel Krel were to be added to an army, the opposing team would automatically gain a Yuetshi Dagger (reduces his armor to 3) to deploy as the player sees fit. Only one unit would be able to carry the weapon, but it would add a side-objective, I suppose. It is also completely feasible for the opponent to win without engaging Khosatrel, simply by destroying the rest of his army and restricting his movement.

- The point values for skills still need more testing. I think we wanted to simplify the point costing process, while making skills that directly impact attack/defense mechanics more expensive (bodyguard, bad luck, etc). When playing an army with a uniform faction (Aquilonian/Bossonian, Pirates, Picts, or Undead), we didn't notice a large balance issue yet. I'm open to suggestions on an alternative point costing formula though.

- Again, for spellcasting we wanted to simplify point costing. I found that spells weren't used too often anyhow, as the gem cost can be quite expensive (I did use mind control in one game to move a Captain away from his troops, which was hilarious).
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Rob Lyon
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Lopez
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We've got an extra board if someone is looking for one. PM.
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Liam
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Moved from General to Variants.
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