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Subject: Another look at BGG-Zilla rss

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wolf90 (Drew)
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Greetings everyone!

I've been pondering the BGG sheets and some possible scenarios featuring some of the counters and overlays. I find myself constantly looking at the BGG-Zilla but fear we lack any sort of consistent rules for the beast. So let's try to get some degree of consensus.

To begin, I'd like to draw everyone's attention to a few prior threads addressing this concept. We have Darin Sunley's (HeatDeath) description here: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/16293039#16293039
as well as Richard Smith's (Rick Smith) take on some rules here: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1124463/suggested-rules-bgg....
I think there are some great ideas here!

So what does everyone think? Any other ideas that should be addressed in a possible ruleset for the creature?

D.

Edit: Another thread discussing this: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1086277/bgg-zilla-anyone-ma...

And Henry Cobb's thread examining this beast: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=129120

D.
 
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Keith Lewis
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Drew I believe you forgot Henry Cobbs fairly large variant on BGG zilla. I have used this extensively in my campaign games especially with Ogre thulhu
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David Valenze
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Any chance for a look at the Pyramid articles for Godzilla and other kaiju?

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Andrew Walters
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The big problem, in my mind, is that Ogre is "hard sci fi" and Kaiju are something else. Giant monsters are essentially melee fighters, with the occasional flame breath effective to a few hundred meters. Even Ogre infantry can out-range kaiju, and since even infantry are faster they can choose the range. So if there's going to be contest the rules will need to depart from the reasonable definitively. That really means re-conceiving the game, not just slapping some stats on the creature.

The attempts that have been made so far are pretty neat, but they didn't really convince me. Hopefully someone will come up with something cool someday.
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If the Kaiju is undetectable more than 2 hexes away, and attacks static city hexes, then range isn't as much of an issue. Especially if the city isn't expecting an attack, and has to call in any armor from off-board.
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Andrew Walters
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Hard to imagine kaiju are undetectable. More fun is untargetable.

You could also say that when Kaiju are in city hexes collateral damage prevents normal combat - only overrun combat is permissible. But I have a hard time thinking GEVs couldn't get some shots in while avoiding the stomping feet. Kailua would probably have all the advantages infantry have, though.
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wolf90 (Drew)
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Misplaced Buckeye wrote:
Drew I believe you forgot Henry Cobbs fairly large variant on BGG zilla. I have used this extensively in my campaign games especially with Ogre thulhu


I was not aware that Henry had done so! Did he post it anywhere? (I can ask him, but if it's already out there...) I will link it in my original post if it's available.

D.

Edit: Found it. See first post.

D.
 
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wolf90 (Drew)
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I have uploaded a file with the relevant stats from the article in Pyramid Classic #1. Please feel free to consider this as an option as well!

D.

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/147580/bgg-zilla-rule...
 
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wolf90 (Drew)
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Now that we have some rules collected for this creature, how about someone taking a stab or two at some scenarios? Some should be fairly straight-forward:

- Kill the CP, but with the creature replacing the Ogre. What is the right balance of units?
- Monster Hunt: Conventional units try to kill it on a GEV map.
- Three's A Crowd: It shows up as an unwanted third party in a traditional scenario. Only one side can win, but the warring parties need to join forces against the creature.
- Mano a mano: Ogre vs Creature straight up. Which Ogre is balanced against it?

And I'm sure there are plenty of other seeds that can grow in the fertile minds around here!

D.
 
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Kill the CP is doable, but Kaiju are even more susceptible to being kited by MSL & GEV than an Ogre.

Monster Hunt is the same, but at least the Kaiju can benefit from cover. More importantly, the Kaiju wins if it can destroy X City hexes - that's what changes the equation.

Three-way battle is fine, but I think the Kaiju is easily avoided and ignored, due to its low threat radius.

Ogre v Creature, is always on an Ogre with MRs.
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wolf90 (Drew)
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The ruleset has been updated to include a record sheet for the creature: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/147813/bgg-zilla-rule...

D.
 
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Stephan Beal
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wolf90 wrote:
Now that we have some rules collected for this creature, how about someone taking a stab or two at some scenarios? Some should be fairly straight-forward:


This would be much more straightforward if we had access to the original scenarios without having to pay for them. i incidentally do have a copy of them, as they used to be posted openly on the SJG web site and i downloaded the page way back then (my local copy is dated December 20, 1998), but i can't legally distribute that copy.

Locking the original article behind a $5 paywall, and then asking the community to post submissions when said submissions would be much simpler to create with access to the original scenario(s) from that article (e.g. the base scenario provides an armor unit range for the opposing army, whereas the current BGG-zilla file provides only the monster's raw stats, leaving us to guess at its armor value), is just... truly, i can only facepalm.
 
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I downloaded the proposed rules and found them overcomplicated, having to track energy *and* wounds. I would simplify the monster dramatically:

60 wounds [M4]
Move as Ogre or Infantry - monster's choice!
Defend as Infantry - S/3 in city, S/2 woods/swamp!

When attacked:
- X results wound equal to S(effective);
- D results have no effect;
- N/A results regenerate 1 wound...

Attacks [3 AP/turn]
3 AP: Atomic Breath - 9/4 attack;
2 AP: Atomic Burp - 6/3 attack;
1 AP: Atomic Burp - 3/2 attack;
1 AP: Rampage - 6/1 attack.
Attacks spillover as usual, per GEV.

Basically, this version is exceedingly hard to kill, and keeps picking away turn after turn.
 
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Stephan Beal
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GrauGeist wrote:
2 AP: Atomic Burp - 6/3 attack;
1 AP: Atomic Burp - 3/2 attack;


To avoid the duplication, how about...

GrauGeist wrote:
2 AP: Atomic Burp - 6/3 attack;
1 AP: Atomic Hiccup - 3/2 attack;
 
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That's better! Thanks!
 
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wolf90 (Drew)
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None of these rules are "official". People are free to use whatever version they wish in creating a scenario - they should simply acknowledge which set they are using in the intro for clarities sake.

sgbeal wrote:
...when said submissions would be much simpler to create with access to the original scenario(s) from that article (e.g. the base scenario provides an armor unit range for the opposing army, whereas the current BGG-zilla file provides only the monster's raw stats, leaving us to guess at its armor value)


For a variety reasons we cannot post that article for free any longer. Which is why I distilled the rules for everyone to see. Additionally, there are mainly only scenario seeds (of which I have summarized in an earlier post), fiction and some gameplay tips left. And the range you're referring to I've found deliberately poor, so I'm consciously avoiding posting it. The point here was to spur some creative opportunity by fans on the forums, not for me to say "Here is how it should be". There is no "right" answer; just people's interpretation and creativity, should they so desire to do so.

D.
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