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Q:When I say "lawyer" what pops into your head? A:Someone who designs games about penguins." - Dormammu
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After giving up trying to figure out the game on her own, Elizabeth decides to read the rules.

So it has come to the attention of many that the top-ranked photo on BGG (307 thumbs) involves a Magic: The Gathering game, features more cleavage than game, is not particularly clever, and is not particularly good photography.

It was suggested in another thread (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/177418/page/7, 6th post from the top) that one way to hide this would be to cap the total number of upthumbs so that there is no #1, only a top group. I thought this seemed a bit doubleplusgood Orwellian, and suggested that instead we vote up more worthy photographs, ones that reflect the best qualities of BGG.

Other candidates (in no particular order) include:

Me against Me against Me against Me (p.s. I won) (168 thumbs)


Kill Doctor Lucky (190 thumbs)


Pizza of Catan (184 thumbs)


Dogs Playing Poker (238 thumbs)


Arkham Horror - Dunwich Horror Expansion (254 thumbs)


Lost Cities Scoreboard (195 thumbs)


Dracula (194 thumbs)


So why Candyland girl (224 thumbs, up from 207 just this morning!)?

1) Cute kid (I'm biased, I know, cause I have a 3-week old son)
2) Positive female image learning game
3) In my book the most clever of all the top photos. The caption cracks me up every time.
4) No meeples anywhere to be seen. Since it's a game we don't play (yeah, I know, sucks if you're over 6....), we won't be caving in to the Carcassone mafia, the Puerto Rico mafia, or the Settlers mafia.
5) Did I mention that there are no meeples in the photo?

Anyway, let me just encourage you to vote early and often for the photos you think show the best aspects of the Geek. Or maybe suggest others that you think deserve to be rated higher?

Cheers!
topherr

Edit: damn *&%+_(%$@ typos!
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Vernon Harmon
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I think this is a great, positive solution and have made my thumb contribution.
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Robert Wesley
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Yes, but "Mammaries: the Gal" is just SO: "naughty-naughty... cute & bold!...t-t-t-t-'TEASE ME'!" blush
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Russ Fade
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Bravo for this. I, too, hated the suggestion that we CAP the thumbs simply because of the Magic Girl. "Let big brother fix our problems!"

Now, if "the people" want to change what is the top picture, that's all cool. I had already given thumbs to most of these pics anyways. The Candyland girl is darling.

This, however, is also a darling picture. A couple of chunky hombres "suited up" for a game of Talisman:



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I will not rest until Biblios is in the Top 100. - Steve Oksienik
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Howell
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Well I been watchin' while you been coughin, I've been drinking life while you've been nauseous, and so I drink to health while you kill yourself and I got just one thing that I can offer... Go on and save yourself and take it out on me
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Lets ask ourselves a question....Would we rather look at Magic Girl or these toolboxes above?

Thats what I thought.
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James Davis
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This is my favourite image on bgg. to me it just looks like a fun game group to be in. All the different facial expressions and different characters in there, just makes me wanna play Twilight Imperium with them.
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Russ Fade
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stormseeker75 wrote:
Lets ask ourselves a question....Would we rather look at Magic Girl or these toolboxes above?

Thats what I thought.


You gotta lotta nerve talkin' with THAT avatar!
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Marco
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topherr wrote:

1) Cute kid (I'm biased, I know, cause I have a 3-week old son)
2) Positive female image learning game
3) In my book the most clever of all the top photos. The caption cracks me up every time.
4) No meeples anywhere to be seen. Since it's a game we don't play (yeah, I know, sucks if you're over 6....), we won't be caving in to the Carcassone mafia, the Puerto Rico mafia, or the Settlers mafia.
5) Did I mention that there are no meeples in the photo?
Well then, 3 out of 5 points apply to Miss Magic & her twins as well. That leaves
1) Cute kid, and
3) In my book the most clever of all the top photos.

Not having any dad hormones I really can't agree with 1) and don't find 3) particularly clever either- compare with http://boardgamegeek.com/image/146969 for cuter & more clever.

I agree that Ms Candyland beats most cat & dog pictures but she does not stand a chance against the shiny beauty of our Magic player.
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Liz Rizzo
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Bravo!

Bravo and thank you.
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King of the Dead
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Seriously.... Who cares what is the top pic?

What's the big deal?
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Christopher Rao
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Q:When I say "lawyer" what pops into your head? A:Someone who designs games about penguins." - Dormammu
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Cross_ wrote:

compare with http://boardgamegeek.com/image/146969 for cuter & more clever.

I don't think more clever, but definitely a very cool picture!


EDIT (caption): A gargantuan black dragon, a colossal red dragon, and a chaos demon (aka 2 year old child)
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Russ Fade
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Nazhuret wrote:
Seriously.... Who cares what is the top pic?

What's the big deal?



I don't care what the top pic is.

I also don't care if people vote to change the top pic.

edit: Also, letting them do this will stop them from bugging the admins to institute some kind of "thumb cap" on photos. Hopefully.



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Fernando Lopez
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The top pick should be the one with the most votes not one made artificially number one by a campaign to dethrone a pic someone doesn't like.
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Christopher Rao
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Q:When I say "lawyer" what pops into your head? A:Someone who designs games about penguins." - Dormammu
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FLo711 wrote:
The top pick should be the one with the most votes not one made artificially number one by a campaign to dethrone a pic someone doesn't like.

What's artificial about suggesting that the face of Hot photographs be a better, more clever photograph? So far as I know, only people who liked the photo voted for it.

Regardless, as of way too early Saturday morning the tally is 320 for Candyland girl and 325 for Cleavage!

cheers,
topherr
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Tami Whitsett
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As a woman who recently worked in a company where all together too many women dressed the way the woman in the Magic picture dressed, I feel very strongly that women who dress that way WANT to be ogled.

As for what picture is #1, the only reason I looked into it is because of this thread. And I gave Magic girl a thumbs up, because I think it's a funny picture that made me laugh.

If the point of trying to make Candyland girl #1 is to better represent who and what BGG is, it misses its mark... I'd MUCH rather be thought of as a woman who plays Magic (with or without cleavage) than of a little kid who plays Candyland.

Then again, I'm one of "those women" who find the evolution of sexism, especially in the US, an interesting history lesson that can reveal a lot about us as a nation.
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James Davis
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TamiWhitsett wrote:
As a woman who recently worked in a company where all together too many women dressed the way the woman in the Magic picture dressed, I feel very strongly that women who dress that way WANT to be ogled.

As for what picture is #1, the only reason I looked into it is because of this thread. And I gave Magic girl a thumbs up, because I think it's a funny picture that made me laugh.

If the point of trying to make Candyland girl #1 is to better represent who and what BGG is, it misses its mark... I'd MUCH rather be thought of as a woman who plays Magic (with or without cleavage) than of a little kid who plays Candyland.

Then again, I'm one of "those women" who find the evolution of sexism, especially in the US, an interesting history lesson that can reveal a lot about us as a nation.


woman hater
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Christopher Rao
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Q:When I say "lawyer" what pops into your head? A:Someone who designs games about penguins." - Dormammu
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TamiWhitsett wrote:
As a woman who recently worked in a company where all together too many women dressed the way the woman in the Magic picture dressed, I feel very strongly that women who dress that way WANT to be ogled.

Everyone is of course entitled to their opinions. Here is one from nextinline (female, FWIW) from the original Mild (?) Sexism thread: "She did it to impress the guy she was gaming with." And more from her: "Women dress the way they do for many reasons... and who really knows why this little girl wore a low neckline..."

As slippery slopes go, I'm very wary of the phrase "women who dress that way" so proximate to "WANT to be ogled." You may feel that this is an unfair leap (and I'm not ascribing this sentiment to you, just to be clear), but there's a long, ugly history (and not all of it is history) of violence/rape against women based upon perceptions about the causal nexus between how a woman dresses and what she wants. [Disclaimer: yeah, I do a lot of volunteer (and paid) work with women who are victims of violence, and have worked with children who are victims of violence as well. I suppose it helps frame my context to some degree.]

EDIT: Perhaps I should also add that as a family law attorney I also represent more than a few abusers, as well as men who are unfairly accused of being abusive. There are all kinds, and no simple answers that I know of. But to me saying that "women who dress like X want y" is as bad as saying "Men who give Magic Cleavage a thumbs up want to sexually assault unsuspecting con-goers" or "People who play Halo are likely to take out a McDonalds with a machine gun." Though words have power, it is illogical, I think, to draw such loose connections.

I'm not saying that there aren't attention-seekers, and that some of them don't reveal cleavage for those purposes (god knows I've seen a few, and in a work context as well). But keep in mind that the the girl (and she really does seem to be a girl, not a woman) is not the one who posted this to the internet. She may well be a teenager working through some very difficult issues of sexuality - as we all did when we were teenagers (it wasn't that many decades ago for me! . OTOH, she may have simply wanted to win the tournament badly, and been happy to use any tactic to her perceived advantage. It's not just the neckline. It's the way the person talks and acts too. We really don't know. That's the point.
[/q]
TamiWhitsett wrote:
As for what picture is #1, the only reason I looked into it is because of this thread. And I gave Magic girl a thumbs up, because I think it's a funny picture that made me laugh.

Nothing wrong with that! Whatever floats your boat.

TamiWhitsett wrote:
If the point of trying to make Candyland girl #1 is to better represent who and what BGG is, it misses its mark... I'd MUCH rather be thought of as a woman who plays Magic (with or without cleavage) than of a little kid who plays Candyland.
Are you saying that you'd rather be thought of as a woman who "WANT[S] to be ogled." Just connecting the dots....

TamiWhitsett wrote:

Then again, I'm one of "those women" who find the evolution of sexism, especially in the US, an interesting history lesson that can reveal a lot about us as a nation.
What specifically about the evolution of sexism?
I'm genuinely curious.

Cheers!
topherr
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howl hollow howl
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TamiWhitsett wrote:
I feel very strongly that women who dress that way WANT to be ogled.


Not by me, they don't.
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Russ Fade
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TamiWhitsett wrote:
As a woman who recently worked in a company where all together too many women dressed the way the woman in the Magic picture dressed, I feel very strongly that women who dress that way WANT to be ogled.

As for what picture is #1, the only reason I looked into it is because of this thread. And I gave Magic girl a thumbs up, because I think it's a funny picture that made me laugh.

If the point of trying to make Candyland girl #1 is to better represent who and what BGG is, it misses its mark... I'd MUCH rather be thought of as a woman who plays Magic (with or without cleavage) than of a little kid who plays Candyland.

Then again, I'm one of "those women" who find the evolution of sexism, especially in the US, an interesting history lesson that can reveal a lot about us as a nation.


Tami, it's refreshing to meet a woman on here who takes this stuff about as "seriously" as my wife does which is . . . not at all.

People who do take it seriously are going to be all over you, though, as you're seeing here. They enjoy pointing out in other sexism threads that "no woman has argued against us." They will hope to silence you NOW.

BTW, I recently stuck a thumb on the Candyland Girl after seeing it in this thread because . . . hey, I've liked the pic. However, I've since found out that by doing so, you become part of a statistic that states "X number of people have a problem with cleavage." I'm here to remove my thumb. Which is a shame. It's a cute picture.

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Patrik Kruse
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I can't see the problem with the "magic girl" in the no 1 spot. The problem is some of the comments added to that picture.

I really hope that the girl in the picture never happens to read them.
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Joe Grundy
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Would your thumbs up be on a cleavage photo if it was your sister or daughter caught on camera and posted to the internet? Even if she was wearing this outfit?

Would it be there after reading the comments?


Edit: Obviously this is purely intended to prompt honest self reflection. (I have no presupposition that it will do so, or that anyone will change their thinking based on it.) We can already see who says "yes I would recommend people ogle my sister or daughter" just by seeing your name in the list of people who thumbsup the image, so please let's not repeat the yes/no assertions here as well.
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Joe Grundy
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Adrian Bolt wrote:
This thread is advocating vote rigging. Seems just as bad to me...
Or maybe it's really just advocating voting, with the political bias of the advocator stated plain.


As to "why would it matter"? ...

The Hot Images page is what's hanging in BGG's front room, as it were, along with the comments attached to them. Visitors come to the site and probably go away again having visited only a couple of BGG pages in total. Most are never going to hit the two clicks to see the images we collectively like the most. But some will.

Whether the image should be posted at all is an entirely different discussion from whether you'd want this to be what the world first sees of BGG, or what you'd consider appropriately represents the purpose of being contributors to this website. Since that image has nothing to do with gaming or game appearance or people enjoying gaming, I fail to see it as a relevant or appropriate early representation of BGG.

So maybe it turns out this website really is (extremely soft)"porngamegeek" ... I don't know. And no the world isn't about to end if that's the way it is.
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Christopher Rao
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Q:When I say "lawyer" what pops into your head? A:Someone who designs games about penguins." - Dormammu
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jgrundy wrote:
Adrian Bolt wrote:
This thread is advocating vote rigging. Seems just as bad to me...
Or maybe it's really just advocating voting, with the political bias of the advocator stated plain.
[/q]
The grass roots Defense to Ogle Teenage Girls is quite sophisticated really:
1) If someone mildly suggests that there may less-than sensitive comments and photos on the website, castigate them for not giving specifics.
2) If someone says that a particular photo and the comments to it make he or she uncomfortable, then complain loudly that they are advocating censorship.
3) If someone instead advocates voting up another photo on the basis that it is both more clever and a more positive image for the site, well, then, accuse them of vote-rigging.

What will they think of next?

Again, I don't have a problem with people voting to ogle a girl young enough they might be arrested if they tried to take her to bed. Really. I know this might seem disingenuous, but really. )Just like I have no problem with people advocating any number of political issues I believe to be misguided or worse.) If that's the value that they want to champion, so be it. It's a little creepy, but to me that is actually honest political debate. It's also mild for the internet, and not, so far as I know, illegal.

In fact, for a hilarious treatment of this topic, see the Seinfeld ep where George is blinded by cleavage that turns out to belong to a 15-year old girl [url] http://www.tv.com/seinfeld/the-shoes/episode/2296/summary.ht...[/url].

My point: there's a time and a place for most things, include ogling. This is a debate about what kind of community we want, and what values we want to be identified with. Again, I'd like for this community to be seen in a positive light, and not as a refuge for fat men with no social skills, questionable hygiene, and a penchant for creepy voyeurism.

Board games facilitate positive social interaction involving problem-solving, negotiation, creativity and learning of real life skills (as well as history, math, etc.). They are a great family-friendly alternative to drugs, alcohol and pointless cocktail parties. But that's not how they are seen - and not how we are seen by the general public. Not yet. My hope is that this community will continue to promote these extremely beneficial values. This is a start.

Cheers!
topherr

EDIT: typos
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C.A.
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How is this thread any different than this thread:

Lets kick Battlelore out of the TOP 10!!!
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/1507521
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Fernando Lopez
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caltino wrote:
How is this thread any different than this thread:

Lets kick Battlelore out of the TOP 10!!!
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/1507521


Well I don't think it is, but I believe the originators of the idea would say it has something to do with the nature of the picture in question.


topherr wrote:
This is a debate about what kind of community we want, and what values we want to be identified with.


Although some would argue that having Battlelore in the top 10 is not something they want to be identified with
 
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