Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
14 Posts

Imperial» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Who destroys factories? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
I'm about 20 plays in now and so far have seen only two factories destroyed, both by me as a cheap way to suicide oversupplied units before Taxation. Neither time was a particularly good choice.

Has anyone else both destroyed a factory and found it useful to do so?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jay Little
United States
Eden Prairie
Minnesota
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Karate Chop!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
As you mention, it often seems best suited to kamikaze attacks to lower the value before a Taxation action to better fill the country's coffers.

I think it's far more useful to spread those three military units out to lockdown three enemy factories (to both suspend their production and devalue their taxation potential) than to take one out. If the opponent comes back to destroy those units blockading the factories, then they're not advancing elsewhere.

As well as possibly forcing them to take the Import action if they lack the available factories to muster sufficient forces to defend themselves otherwise (especially potent if they just engaged in a big battle - like right after France heads out to sea to challenge Great Britain or Italy for naval territories).

A 2:1 ratio to destroy a factory seems too light, but 3:1 seems too steep. In 5 face-to-face games, I think I've seen a grand total of 2 factories being destroyed.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Keith "Boaty McBoatface" C
United States
New Haven
Connecticut
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't think I've seen a factory destroyed yet. Then again, during the games I've played, people tended to only make enough troops to expand where they needed to go. I also haven't played that many times, but I definitely see the advantage to lower your troop costs while causing damage to other countries.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Pakpreo
United States
Cambridge
MA - Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've seen it destroyed a few times. Most common is right before taxation. The other reason is to hurt production severly as to stop the spread of another player into their region, port factories most common.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg Berry
United States
Unspecified
Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's not a bad option to do early in a 2 or 3 player game against other countries that your opponent is heavily invested in using a proxy country (i.e. one you control with little investment.) It hurts their tax base significantly and slows down any future expansionism. It is a good thing to do with "Import" where you bring in 3 armies with that express purpose in mind. If your opponent counters it by building 3 armies then you have slowed them down that way.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
ynnen wrote:
I think it's far more useful to spread those three military units out to lockdown three enemy factories (to both suspend their production and devalue their taxation potential) than to take one out.


I agree that shutting down factories is more generically useful, and I do use that tactic often, but it is relatively rare that multiple factories that I actually want to shut down are also within movement range.

Quote:
If the opponent comes back to destroy those units blockading the factories, then they're not advancing elsewhere.


Hostile factory occupation is a great way to get someone to take a country you don't want away from you (and re-capitalise it).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Gische
United States
San Carlos
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've only played twice, but both times saw what seemed to be decent choices to destroy factories.

First was a 2-player game. Player controlling Austria, Germany, and Italy kept destroying Russia's army factories to keep Russia from ever being able to mount any kind of an offensive. Austria and Germany would alternate invasions.

Second was a 5-player game. I was controlling Austria, and I needed to get some ships into the Mediterranean for transporting armies. Italy's shop production was interfering, so on consecutive turns I destroyed Italy's ship factory on the western side, then imported three ships to flood the region. It helps that I had zero investment in Italy at the time.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
gische wrote:
I've only played twice, but both times saw what seemed to be decent choices to destroy factories.


We should get together and play! (I'm thinking about running up to a North Bay social group this Sunday to teach/play Imperial and maybe an 18XX -- Daniel has been tuning a faster/more aggressive 18C2C variant)

Quote:
First was a 2-player game.


I've only watched one 2 player game. All my other games have been with 4 or more players. The 2 player game seemed quite degenerate.

Quote:
Player controlling Austria, Germany, and Italy kept destroying Russia's army factories to keep Russia from ever being able to mount any kind of an offensive. Austria and Germany would alternate invasions.


I generally find it more profitable to simply occupy the factory in force and then on a subsequent maneuver to move out and occupy yet more factories. The problem with destroying the factory is that it leaves the region open (or nearly open) and units may be railroaded through to hostilely occupy your factories. Factory tit-for-tat is unprofitable. Occupied factories however seem a great way to force the game phasing against the other players.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Gische
United States
San Carlos
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
clearclaw wrote:
We should get together and play! (I'm thinking about running up to a North Bay social group this Sunday to teach/play Imperial and maybe an 18XX -- Daniel has been tuning a faster/more aggressive 18C2C variant)


Definitely at some point. Between work and family, I've been out of the scene for a while. I know you're still toting some games for me, too. I still want to learn how to use the 18xx game managing software, too.

Quote:
I've only watched one 2 player game. All my other games have been with 4 or more players. The 2 player game seemed quite degenerate.


It wasn't ideal, certainly, but it gave me an excellent taste for the mechanisms. Wow, I got my butt kicked, though.


Quote:
Quote:
Player controlling Austria, Germany, and Italy kept destroying Russia's army factories to keep Russia from ever being able to mount any kind of an offensive. Austria and Germany would alternate invasions.


I generally find it more profitable to simply occupy the factory in force and then on a subsequent maneuver to move out and occupy yet more factories. The problem with destroying the factory is that it leaves the region open (or nearly open) and units may be railroaded through to hostilely occupy your factories. Factory tit-for-tat is unprofitable. Occupied factories however seem a great way to force the game phasing against the other players.


He was doing it so regularly that Russia never had a chance to respond by occupying Austria's or Germany's factories. Russia was just floundering since it couldn't get anything going. Some of this was likely my incompetence during my first game. My lack of a wargaming background really hurt me there.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
gische wrote:
I know you're still toting some games for me, too.


I think I only have AoS:Moon/Mars for you.

Quote:
I still want to learn how to use the 18xx game managing software, too.


Yeah, and I need to refamiliarise myself with it. It has been just long enough that I don't remember the key bindings.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chester
United States
Temple
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Destoying a factory (or factorIES) is a great way to point out to another player that he/she has expanded too quickly and invested too heavily in one country. If a player starts to lose the flexibility of diversifying, and is not militarily able to protect their investment....you can drive the country's value quite low by smacking his production capabilities (and inherent value). It takes a bit of time to rebuild that.

Its especially nice if you happen to "temporarily" have control of a country you don't plan to have in the running at the end of the game...and don't mind depleting their forces.

Its not the most common play, but I've used it with good effect in the past. One disadvantage to "occupying" the factories is that you must continue to pay taxes on those military units for however long they are present.

If the countries couldn't or didn't change hands, then destroying factories would make little sense.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thomas Phinney
United States
Portland
United States
flag msg tools
Staring down from his cave, with a sour grinchy frown...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I just want to concur that Jason destroying my factory was definitely a good move for him (and a major irritant for me). Very effective, at least in that particular game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom Hancock
United States
Charleston
West Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
From what I have seen, its more effective early in the game when you are relying on production to get units to take territories for you. If you can manage to jump on someone's factory after an early import, you can really limit that country's development.

Of course, that only really works if you aren't invested in the target. I know I played a game today where the winning player took the "super-britain" strategy and used france and germany to destroy the factories of italy, austria, and later in the game each other. He controlled france and germany for short periods of time, just taking them and exploding their units on other nations or each other to protect england. meanwhile, england had multiple factories and was using ships to take spain, africa, and all sorts of colonies. It was wild to watch once he got it going.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg Jones
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
There are two reasons to destroy a factory, and usually you need at least a little of both reasons.

1) You don't want the factory to be there. Obviously.

2) You don't want the units you're attacking with to be there.

If you only want 1 but not 2, then simply occupy the factory. A factory occupied with three units is practically destroyed. It will either take a long time to liberate it, or a $3mil. Import, which costs almost as much as rebuilding the factory. On the other hand if the country is somewhere on the right side of the rondel, sometimes destroying the factory is more effective. They can get to Import and liberate faster than they can rebuild.

Occupying multiple factories is usually even better.

However, 2 usually comes into play when you aren't sure if you will keep control of the country you're attacking with. When you occupy a factory, it's easy enough for the offended player to buy the occupying country and move out. But destroying a factory is not reversible in that way.

I don't really buy destroying your own units to increase your country's take in Taxation. That's a Machiavellian idea I think a lot of people thought was clever, but it isn't really that effective.

However it is occasionally possible that you want 2 and don't really care about 1, and you still destroy the factory. That's if you think you might lose control of a country, and the units are a threat to you, you might wish to destroy them.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.