Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
14 Posts

GMT COIN Series» Forums » General

Subject: COIN American Civil War rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
jazer jay
msg tools
I've just discovered this wonderful system and have been researching the various topics that it covers. I am wondering, after searching for an existing topic, why the US Civil War has not been discussed as a viable topic for the series? I'm just spit balling here after reading through the revolution game, it seems like something that could work. Any initial comments?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oerjan Ariander
Sweden
HUDDINGE
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Because the ACW was for the most part a regular war with only two directly opposed sides, regular combat troops, clear front lines, and where physical occupation of the Confederate States was the one war goal that really mattered for both sides.

It had little of the multi-sided conflicts, asymmetric goals, guerrilla-style fighting, hidden political cells or emphasis on political support from the population that the COIN engine is good at representing... so while it would certainly be possible to design an ACW game that uses the COIN Sequence of Play, there is nothing about the ACW that makes the COIN engine an obvious choice for it.

Regards,
Oerjan
14 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gabriel Conroy
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Possibly if you modeled the political sphere much more explicitly and focused on that it might be more interesting and appropriate for the COIN system. But it's not an obvious fit and in any case there are a million ACW games already.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephen Rynerson
United States
Denver
Colorado
flag msg tools
badge
Ma Hongkui
Avatar
Microbadge: Avalon Hill fanMicrobadge: ASL fanMicrobadge: I'm a Black Orchestra fan!Microbadge: COIN fanMicrobadge: Sierra Madre Games fan
achates wrote:
Possibly if you modeled the political sphere much more explicitly and focused on that it might be more interesting and appropriate for the COIN system. But it's not an obvious fit and in any case there are a million ACW games already.
I haven't had a chance to play Pericles yet, but my impression is that the mechanics of it (two opposing military groups each with two semi-antagonistic factions within each side) could be a better fit for that than COIN.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
jazer jay
msg tools
I think that something could be put together that would work well with COIN. Instead of factions, players would represent the armies of each government. I'm going to try some concepts out. Thanks for the tip on Pericles.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rob Winslow
United States
Rochester
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
While I enjoy some COIN games, but not all, shoehorning a conflict into the COIN system is just asking for trouble, imo. Not everything is best simulated by one concept, and the ACW doesn't lend itself to COIN.

Now, if you wanted to do a real low level COIN, perhaps "Bloody Kansas," leading up to the ACW, would be a better place to start.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rex Stites
United States
Lawrence
Kansas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
brandysta wrote:


Now, if you wanted to do a real low level COIN, perhaps "Bloody Kansas," leading up to the ACW, would be a better place to start.

I'm not sure that even fits into the COIN paradigm, but it's obviously closer to the Civil War proper. I think COIN might a be a decent starting place for a Bloody Kansas game, though.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Doug Buel
United States
Hollywood
Florida
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The ultimate untapped reservoir of COIN gamehood is, of course, Dune
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Walsh
Ireland
Lucan
Co Dublin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
brandysta wrote:

Now, if you wanted to do a real low level COIN, perhaps "Bloody Kansas," leading up to the ACW, would be a better place to start.
Or Reconstruction after.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Dillenbeck
United States
Deerfield
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
brandysta wrote:
While I enjoy some COIN games, but not all, shoehorning a conflict into the COIN system is just asking for trouble, imo. Not everything is best simulated by one concept, and the ACW doesn't lend itself to COIN.

Now, if you wanted to do a real low level COIN, perhaps "Bloody Kansas," leading up to the ACW, would be a better place to start.
Hmmmm... you just got me thinking about games outside of conflicts we traditionally call war. I don't have the knowledge, but it would be interesting to see "Civil COIN series" that might have titles like:

The Battle of Blair Mountain - up to 5 campaigns that represent 1 day each, with victory checks being "Dawn of a New Day"; a 2 player COIN game where you control the actions of either the government or the unionists. Possibly add in "the industry" and "the workers" as allied factions, or keep them rolled up - or even just the workers a 3rd faction to simulate how they sometimes get stuck in the middle of the conflict between union organizers and union busters.

March On Washington: The Civil Rights Movement - up to 5 campaign periods representing 1-3 years (probably 1, 1960-1965, but the period I am think of is 1954-1968), simulate the civil disobedience that worked towards creating equality in the USA. (I won't lie, I don't know how you'd adopt the system for first and/or second wave feminism in the USA to this system - primarily because I am woefully under-educated in the topic, and with the civil rights movement you can find many militant clashes but I am not really finding anything with the feminism waves.)

--------------------------------------------------------------

Of course, I've always wanted a Babylon 5 and Dune COIN game, but I just don't think those will be something they'd bother paying the license for. Nor would certain parties let the Lord of the Rings IP be used without a whole lot of money - imagine "Battle for Middle Earth" as COIN instead of 'War of the Ring' by Ares Games (which I enjoy a lot, so I'd put them as a tie in my heart... or give COIN a slight edge for the whole I can actually get it to the table by playing solo aspect).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ed T
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Verbosity wrote:
Nor would certain parties let the Lord of the Rings IP be used without a whole lot of money - imagine "Battle for Middle Earth" as COIN instead of 'War of the Ring' by Ares Games (which I enjoy a lot, so I'd put them as a tie in my heart... or give COIN a slight edge for the whole I can actually get it to the table by playing solo aspect).
Ok, I'll bite, how is the War of the Ring a counter insurgency?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rex Stites
United States
Lawrence
Kansas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Verbosity wrote:
brandysta wrote:
While I enjoy some COIN games, but not all, shoehorning a conflict into the COIN system is just asking for trouble, imo. Not everything is best simulated by one concept, and the ACW doesn't lend itself to COIN.

Now, if you wanted to do a real low level COIN, perhaps "Bloody Kansas," leading up to the ACW, would be a better place to start.
Hmmmm... you just got me thinking about games outside of conflicts we traditionally call war. I don't have the knowledge, but it would be interesting to see "Civil COIN series" that might have titles like:

The Battle of Blair Mountain - up to 5 campaigns that represent 1 day each, with victory checks being "Dawn of a New Day"; a 2 player COIN game where you control the actions of either the government or the unionists. Possibly add in "the industry" and "the workers" as allied factions, or keep them rolled up - or even just the workers a 3rd faction to simulate how they sometimes get stuck in the middle of the conflict between union organizers and union busters.

March On Washington: The Civil Rights Movement - up to 5 campaign periods representing 1-3 years (probably 1, 1960-1965, but the period I am think of is 1954-1968), simulate the civil disobedience that worked towards creating equality in the USA. (I won't lie, I don't know how you'd adopt the system for first and/or second wave feminism in the USA to this system - primarily because I am woefully under-educated in the topic, and with the civil rights movement you can find many militant clashes but I am not really finding anything with the feminism waves.)

--------------------------------------------------------------

Of course, I've always wanted a Babylon 5 and Dune COIN game, but I just don't think those will be something they'd bother paying the license for. Nor would certain parties let the Lord of the Rings IP be used without a whole lot of money - imagine "Battle for Middle Earth" as COIN instead of 'War of the Ring' by Ares Games (which I enjoy a lot, so I'd put them as a tie in my heart... or give COIN a slight edge for the whole I can actually get it to the table by playing solo aspect).
This seems like round-peg/square-hole thinking. COIN might be good design inspiration for games on topics you suggest, but trying to force the COIN model onto them seems counter productive.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
jazer jay
msg tools
Over the past year, I’ve been developing a civil war game the stemmed from my interest in the COIN series. It has ebbed and flowed back and forth using many different design elements and approaches. I hope to have something on the table soon-alpha prototype, obviously. While this game will not be a COIN worthy installment, it does borrow some mechanics that I think work well with the material.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
K S
United States
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Verbosity wrote:
Hmmmm... you just got me thinking about games outside of conflicts we traditionally call war. I don't have the knowledge, but it would be interesting to see "Civil COIN series"
...
Of course, I've always wanted a Babylon 5 and Dune COIN game, but I just don't think those will be something they'd bother paying the license for.
Get out of my head, Michael. I've had nearly identical thoughts to both of these, except the licensed IP I had in mind was Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls