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Twilight Struggle» Forums » Variants

Subject: Quagmire / Bear Trap variant rss

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Johan T
Sweden
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I´m pretty ok with the dice-rollings of TS, but I don´t like the risk of never getting out of Quagmire or Bear Trap.

1) Are there any common house rules or official erratas concerning these cards?

2) My idea is to limit the cards effects to i.e. 2 or 3 rounds, still keeping the possibility of getting out at the first round as stated on the cards. What do you think about this idea?

Thanks
Johan
 
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L. Scott Johnson
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The only official errata isn't officially called errata: it's the addition of "instead of playing a card" to the first sentence of each card.

Edit: oh, and the alteration of the "repeat until" conditions to make it repeat even when "no appropriate cards remain" (continuing into the next turn, that is).

Our house rule is to play as printed.
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Johan T
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Let´s say that you have played a strategically great game and you´re just about to finish your opponent within a turn or two. Then he/she manages to get you into the Quag/BT where you are stuck for seven rounds and your opponent gets such a position that he/she wins the game. Would that be ok to you (if so, why) or would you think that the two hours played so far were ended in a boring way just because of extremely bad luck?

Is anyone agreeing with me that Quag/BT should have some form of time limitation?

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Marky Mark
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I believe in past threads people have mentioned a possible house rule where on each subsequent turn in the Quagmire/Trap you modify the die roll by one.
 
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Philip Thomas
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Its a nasty card. I sympathise with those wanting to put a time limit on it. Automatically lifted on the 3rd roll might be suitable. Also allowing you to roll if you don't have any suitable cards.
 
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L. Scott Johnson
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Mysthjuk wrote:
Let´s say that you have played a strategically great game and you´re just about to finish your opponent within a turn or two. Then he/she manages to get you into the Quag/BT where you are stuck for seven rounds and your opponent gets such a position that he/she wins the game. Would that be ok to you (if so, why) or would you think that the two hours played so far were ended in a boring way just because of extremely bad luck?

Is anyone agreeing with me that Quag/BT should have some form of time limitation?


Well, as I said, we'd play it so that you're not "stuck" for seven rounds -- you still get to play a card for your action in the round in which you discard a card and roll a die for Q/BT's effect.

And also we use the time limit of "until no appropriate cards remain".

So Q/BT just chew up half your hand for that one turn (assuming bad rolls).
 
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Johan T
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There should be an official, or at least a semi-official, variant to "fix" this issue. Is there in the community a preferred variant or should someone lift the question?
 
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L. Scott Johnson
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"Should"?

I don't thinks so. House rules are just that -- changes to the game so that the house (the local group) gets the most enjoyment from it.

The official "fix" is to play it according to designer intent, per the official rulings.

The issue has been lifted, and the result is the current state.
 
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Li'l Ronnie Post
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Mysthjuk wrote:
Let´s say that you have played a strategically great game and you´re just about to finish your opponent within a turn or two. Then he/she manages to get you into the Quag/BT where you are stuck for seven rounds and your opponent gets such a position that he/she wins the game. Would that be ok to you (if so, why) or would you think that the two hours played so far were ended in a boring way just because of extremely bad luck?
It'd be completely ok with me - it'd make a great story! That would be a more spectacular than boring way to lose in my book...

Aren't the odds of rolling a 5 or 6 seven times in a row 1/3 to the 7th power? I'd look both ways twice before crossing the street that day, for sure...

I think a potential Quag/BT play is just one more possibility one has to keep in mind when strategizing. There's more than a couple nasty cards to remember! YMMV, of course, and you're completely free to make your own house rules - I just don't see these cards as not being in keeping with the rest of the game.
 
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Philip Thomas
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The odds of rolling 5 or 6 7 times in a row are small.

However if you have a low ops hand with only a couple of 2 Ops card, the odds are just 1 in 9 of being stuck for the whole turn.

Of course the Red Scare/Purge+Quagmire combo is fearsome indeed.
 
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Li'l Ronnie Post
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Philip Thomas wrote:
The odds of rolling 5 or 6 7 times in a row are small.

However if you have a low ops hand with only a couple of 2 Ops card, the odds are just 1 in 9 of being stuck for the whole turn.

Of course the Red Scare/Purge+Quagmire combo is fearsome indeed.
I could be wrong, but I think the odds of having no more than 2 cards out of 8 (or 9) with a minimum of 2 Ops points each is a bit less than 1 in 9 (which would itself be a small subset of the already tiny odds). How many cards are there in the deck that can't be used to end Purge/Quagmire?

I agree about Red Scare/Purge and Quagmire combo, though! *shudder*

There are some cards that seemed unfair to us at first - until we realized we needed to beware/be aware of them (Wargames seems to be the one that comes up for us!). FWIW, it seems to me that this game is as much about spoiling your opponents plans as it is about enacting your own.
 
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David Carroll
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I am not a fan of any proposed rules change. Most of the time, I find myself playing Bear Trap/Quagmire on myself hoping to get rid of several of my opponent's cards. I am usually disappointed when I get right out by a "good" roll.

Of course, that may reflect the bad hands I seem to attract.
 
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Snooze Fest
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Hillsborough
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We love our pups!! Misu, RIP 28 Nov 2010. Tikka, RIP 11 Aug 2011.
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I love this game -- I'd rank it at #2 or #3 -- but this can be REALLY annoying! I think I'd prefer some kind of variant to limit it's effect. The -1 per fail variant might be a bit too much, but maybe something like getting a -1 die modifier per 4 ops you discard to the card?
 
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King in Green
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Or remove 1 point of influence in Asia to get +1 on the die... Of course sometimes if you have advanced too far on the space race and are looking at a murderer's row of cards you may want to fail a roll or two to dispose of VoA, Grain Sales, or the like.
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Raulino Rinaldi Jr
Brazil
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i think automaic success at third try is good. Still very powerful effect.
 
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