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Subject: Just received my Kickstarter - not very good I'm afraid rss

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Nigel Heather
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PLEASE NOTE - before you read any of the following, be advised that today (17th October 2017) PSC announced that they are going to remould the model planes in a harder plastic and with a different supplier. When ready they will ship the replacement plane to all customers free of charge. In the meantime the game will continue to ship with the current models so that you can play the game.


My kickstarter arrived today.

Shipping Box – no sign of damage

Retail box – no sign of damage

Zvezda Kit – Ju-88, was promised Fairey Battle – but no big deal I guess

Kickstarter extras – just thrown in packing box in zip-lock bags – no packing to stop the retail box from sliding around and bashing the kickstarter extras

Dice – 6 white and 6 black – no problems

Decals – British ones look okay – German ones are absolutely terrible – totally wrong. British ones all one size which will look much too small on the wings of a Blenheim

Blenheim – bit of bending but generally okay

Defiant – wings bent up – will need some hot water treatment to straighten out

Gladiator – WTF – outer wing struts too short giving the top wing a massive anhedral – dreadful

Ju-87 – One weheel spat bent flat against wing, the other crooked, one wing tip curled up like a banana – dreadful

So looking at the kickstarter exclusive package – it looks really pitiful – a sense of I didn’t get much over those that waited for retail. Some dice that you can do without, four bent and mis-shaped aircraft that wouldn’t be out of place in a Christmas cracker. Some decals that are too small in some cases and just plain wrong in the case of the Germans. A 15mm kit that I don’t need and on top of that different to the one I was promised.

Opening the retail box

Manual, counters and info sheets look excellent

Cards look good

Stands – 12 big and 7 small. Anyone thing this is the wrong way round – this means that the big aircraft (the German bombers) go on the small stands.

Stand stickers – way smaller than needed – imagine that they will look silly on the big stands and be difficult to read

12 more dice (6 white and 6 black)

6 hurricanes – generally okay – will need a little hot water treatment to sort out minor bends in the wings

6 hurricanes – pretty much the same as the hurricanes – maybe a few more serious bends

2 Bf-109 – little hot water treatment for minor bends

2 Bf-109 – one okay, one with badly bent wing

2 He-111 – both bad – one with bad wing bends – the other with bad wing bends and a totally twisted tail section

2 Ju-88 – both with minor wing bends and major bends in the tail

2 Do-17 – both have badly bent wings and twisted tail sections

Overall the moulding on the planes is poor.

If I had bought this retail it would be going straight back to the shop for refund.

I feel like a total fool ---

(1)I had the original first edition game. I threw it out because I was getting this. The card component in the new version are much better, but the planes are worse.

(2)The kickstarter exclusives look pitiful – why oh why did I invest my money for that. Some decals that are unusable, some dice that aren’t needed and four badly misshapen, poorly moulded aircraft

PSC have been poor throughout the campaign - abysmal communications and clearly no Quality Control to speak of.

Obviously Kickstarters are stuck with this but if you didn't kickstart and are thinking of getting a retail copy I really cannot recommend that buy this. Unless you can get it (1) really cheap or (2) buy from a store that accepts returns.

Cheers,

Nigel

I will put some pictures up later.
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David Groves
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Re: Just received my Kickstarter - good very good I'm afraid
Hi Nigel

Thank you for letting us all know how you got on. From what you say this games contents certainly beats a few broken bayonets found in The Great War game.

I still haven't received my copy yet but since I want to sell it on but now probably won't be able to because of the poor quality I think I'd rather consider the game lost and get a refund.

My only real concern is that I love The Great War and wonder if this is the finish of PSC as a game company and so no more TGW. Should this be the case perhaps Richard Borg could find another supplier to complete the series.

All the best with the hot water wing straightening.

Dave

PS Looking forward to seeing your pictures.
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Nigel Heather
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Some picks.

Kickstarter exclusive - is that it ????



Decals - Yes the German crosses are on a white square - like used in the First World War



Do-17



He-111



Ju-88



Ju-87



Gladiator




I can probably work out the bends with the hot water/cold water technique but it'll be a lot of work - but not the gladiator - that looks like a design error with the outer struts too short forcing an anhedral on the top wing.

I planned to paint but the supplied decals are useless so that is extra money to buy more.

Box says 22 stands but only 19 being provided - but I think this is a typo on the box.

Stands seem the wrong way round, big for the small aircraft and small for the big aircraft.

The stand stickers are tiny - no need, plenty of space on the stand and difficult to read.

Cheers,

Nigel
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David Groves
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Jesus Christ......

I've no chance of selling this on cry

Since my young son talked me into bidding this he is sitting very quietly reading a book, at the moment and keeping well out of the way
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Eddie Harr
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yikes. i sure hope this is a fluke..........
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Karl Forder
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eddieharr wrote:
yikes. i sure hope this is a fluke..........


I'm afraid it isn't.
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Team Ski
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Wow, that just sucks! We are screwed on this one....... Those things look like erasers.

-Ski
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Little Idiot
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I've backed 3 PSC games because I'm a big fan of Richard Borg's designs.

Each one has, ironically, fallen foul to model issues. PSC is primarily a model company so I'd expect teething problems with other components but

- The Great War - broken bayonets when detaching from sprue <even for this seasoned model maker with sprue cutters>
- The Great War - tank expansion - poorly packaged tanks with broken barrels
- Battle of Britain - poor quality sculpts and too soft plastic? That's just nuts given the quality of their model lines (they are very good)

In the first two KSs they were very good at shipping replacements (albeit with the same faults in The Great War) but I don't see them recalling these plane models en-masse
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David Groves
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A plastic model company, eh. Take a look at the lovely, painted and durable plastic planes that you got with the Memoir 44 Air Pack expansion.

They may not be true representations of the planes they purport to be but they are brilliant models for a board game.

I've used my planes extensively and not a scrap of paint has come off. They are soft plastic and will not break but the wings are straight.


https://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic273660_md.jpg

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David Groves
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Teamski wrote:
Wow, that just sucks! We are screwed on this one....... Those things look like erasers.

-Ski


Yes, you're right. I thought they had a resemblance to the contents of my son's pencil case.
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Little Idiot
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As I said, their models (prior to this) are pretty good.

In fact, I'd say they were better quality than Airfix, Revell etc.

Here is an example that I put together during my Airfix Battles model session,



These don't compare to the images in this thread. Weird. They must have outsourced it.
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David Groves
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That's more like it.
 
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Gary
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I'm glad I didn't go for this one. Those are really poor, and looking back at the campaign they were being sold as add-ons at £3 for 2 for the medium bombers surprise

I am guessing that these are softish plastic and therefore very different to the fine 15mm and 20mm kits that PSC make and sell. It's a real shame they couldn't be made in hard plastic and to a decent standard as they could have got a lot of extra sales to wargamers.

If anyone's looking for replacement planes and doesn't mind them being at a smaller scale (1:600), then Tumbling Dice in the UK do some very nice (considering the size) metal models
http://www.tumblingdiceuk.com/product-category/1600/pre-1950
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David Kitcat
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Okay chaps - my set arrived too & I noted the wonky KS models with some concern, but actually it's not so bad.

It is definitely a softer plastic than the Great War figures, but it's still pretty firm.

And the Hot Water Treatment works a treat. Just drop the models into the not quite boiling water pot and they snap back into the shape of the original moulding. Then into the cold pot & they are pretty much fine & ready to go. Not absolutely perfect, but perfectly fine for gaming. It took me about 20 minutes while I made a pot of tea & a hot chocolate for the boy.

I didn't have to do any 'shaping', except for the Gladiator whose shorter strut on one side does pull one side of the wings closer together. I might throw it into battle in desperation, but it's probably not going to see much action.

David, tell your son that you probably won't need to sell him to recoup the loss on the KS.
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Barry Miller
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I had the same poor quality issues with the minis for their Hold the Line: The American Revolution production.

The quality of their product doesn't seem to be inline with the expectations which the name of their company invoke.

But I'll have to wait till I inspect my copy before passing personal judgment. Am only going by the above images for now. (And my crappy HtL minis).

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Little Idiot
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DaveKitcat wrote:
It took me about 20 minutes while I made a pot of tea & a hot chocolate for the boy.

Re-used hot water to make Tea. Genius. Not worthy.
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DaveKitcat wrote:


David, tell your son that you probably won't need to sell him to recoup the loss on the KS.


Well done on the recovery effort. I will being boiling planes no doubt when my game arrives. This will certainly make me reconsider anything PSC puts out without seeing it first. Inexcusable. I know a lot of other KS producers would absolutely crap over this sort of quality coming out of the factories. This is why they always have test production runs delivered to them first. PSC obviously didn't. Add the useless kit plane added from the lack of sticks without the option of getting additional game planes in their place and you have a PR mess from hell.....

-Ski
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Steve Carroll
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Teamski wrote:
Add the useless kit plane added from the lack of sticks without the option of getting additional game planes in their place and you have a PR mess from hell.....

-Ski


So, we are getting a kit instead of the push-your-planes-around stick? I missed that update. Not so good if I am interpreting your comment correctly.
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David Groves
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DaveKitcat wrote:
Okay chaps - my set arrived too & I noted the wonky KS models with some concern, but actually it's not so bad.

It is definitely a softer plastic than the Great War figures, but it's still pretty firm.

And the Hot Water Treatment works a treat. Just drop the models into the not quite boiling water pot and they snap back into the shape of the original moulding. Then into the cold pot & they are pretty much fine & ready to go. Not absolutely perfect, but perfectly fine for gaming. It took me about 20 minutes while I made a pot of tea & a hot chocolate for the boy.

I didn't have to do any 'shaping', except for the Gladiator whose shorter strut on one side does pull one side of the wings closer together. I might throw it into battle in desperation, but it's probably not going to see much action.

David, tell your son that you probably won't need to sell him to recoup the loss on the KS.


Ha ha; he's already packed his bags and left...
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Eddie Harr
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Texas gamer wrote:
Teamski wrote:
Add the useless kit plane added from the lack of sticks without the option of getting additional game planes in their place and you have a PR mess from hell.....

-Ski


So, we are getting a kit instead of the push-your-planes-around stick? I missed that update. Not so good if I am interpreting your comment correctly.


Yea. That pisses me off more than anything. I literally said I would only back if those were unlocked. They were and I jumped in. Now they aren't even in it............
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David Kitcat
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littleidiot wrote:
DaveKitcat wrote:
It took me about 20 minutes while I made a pot of tea & a hot chocolate for the boy.

Re-used hot water to make Tea. Genius. Not worthy.


Ha ha! I hasten to add that I wasn't quite that heroic! Hate to think what the residue plastic left in the hot water, but that definitely went down the sink.
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Dave Daffin
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DaveKitcat wrote:
littleidiot wrote:
DaveKitcat wrote:
It took me about 20 minutes while I made a pot of tea & a hot chocolate for the boy.

Re-used hot water to make Tea. Genius. Not worthy.


Ha ha! I hasten to add that I wasn't quite that heroic! Hate to think what the residue plastic left in the hot water, but that definitely went down the sink.


Hey Dave,
Once I get my copy and have hot-water dipped and cooled my minis, we'll have to set up a game session!
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David Kitcat
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Dave in Ledbury wrote:
Hey Dave,
Once I get my copy and have hot-water dipped and cooled my minis, we'll have to set up a game session!


Hi Dave, yes we'll have to sort out a passport so one of us can get through the Wyche Cutting.

I'd like to give this a try, now that I've broken the shrink.
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Nigel Heather
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DaveKitcat wrote:
Okay chaps - my set arrived too & I noted the wonky KS models with some concern, but actually it's not so bad.

It is definitely a softer plastic than the Great War figures, but it's still pretty firm.

And the Hot Water Treatment works a treat. Just drop the models into the not quite boiling water pot and they snap back into the shape of the original moulding. Then into the cold pot & they are pretty much fine & ready to go. Not absolutely perfect, but perfectly fine for gaming. It took me about 20 minutes while I made a pot of tea & a hot chocolate for the boy.

I didn't have to do any 'shaping', except for the Gladiator whose shorter strut on one side does pull one side of the wings closer together. I might throw it into battle in desperation, but it's probably not going to see much action.

David, tell your son that you probably won't need to sell him to recoup the loss on the KS.


Thanks, as I mentioned in my post I shall be trying the hot water metod. I have had to use it before on plastic minis from other games with some success. But that has usually been on few minis out of the set - disappointed that I'm going to have to use it on practically every plane to varying degrees.

Also in the past, I have found that whilst it appears to work initial, the mini returns to it bent form over time. Hoping that won't be the case here as I intend to paint - don't fancy having to redip once painted.

Also looks like I'm going to have to spend £10 on transfers because the supplied decals are rubbish - though to be fair I was never expecting much from them and water-slides will look a lot better.


Cheers,

Nigel
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David Kitcat
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Hmm, yes I'll certainly hold off painting until I'm sure they are going to keep their shape. The Great War minis painted up very nicely, but they definitely were a harder plastic.

Please do post details about the transfers/water slides that you end up using.
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