Big Sean
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Just listenin`

I know there was issues, but I have every faith in Will and the guys delivering the goods. Eventually.

The logistics are probably the biggest issue for them.

Hang in there bro`
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StevenE Smooth Sailing...
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silverfox63 wrote:
Just listenin`

I know there was issues, but I have every faith in Will and the guys delivering the goods. Eventually.

The logistics are probably the biggest issue for them.

Hang in there bro`


I have no doubt PSC/WillT will make good on this decision... it may take months or a year... but it will get done.
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Stephen Harper
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pavobueno wrote:
I've moved. When the replacement aircraft are ready to be sent out, will there be a message going out via Kickstarter to verify address? It has to be via Kickstarter, like when the original game was ready to ship, as that is where my new email address is. I tried to send PSC an email with new address/email information, but since I received no confirmation I don't know if it went through. Can I get a response via this thread on how I can keep the replacement bits from going to my old address?


My account has been charged for shipping, which I expect has to do with the replacement models. What I don't know is what address they are going to, even though I changed my address in Kickstarter and sent an email with the new address to PSC. I did not receive confirmation that the address was updated, though. If anyone from PSC reads this, can they let me know if they received the address change?
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Nigel Heather
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pavobueno wrote:
pavobueno wrote:
I've moved. When the replacement aircraft are ready to be sent out, will there be a message going out via Kickstarter to verify address? It has to be via Kickstarter, like when the original game was ready to ship, as that is where my new email address is. I tried to send PSC an email with new address/email information, but since I received no confirmation I don't know if it went through. Can I get a response via this thread on how I can keep the replacement bits from going to my old address?


My account has been charged for shipping, which I expect has to do with the replacement models. What I don't know is what address they are going to, even though I changed my address in Kickstarter and sent an email with the new address to PSC. I did not receive confirmation that the address was updated, though. If anyone from PSC reads this, can they let me know if they received the address change?


What are you being charged for - thought the remoulds were being sent out free of charge.

I can’t imagine that they are going out yet otherwise we would have heard a bit more noise from PSC. After the experiences with BoB they employed a project manager and communications got a lot better.

Cheers,

Nigel
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Nigel Heather
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Will of PSC has just posted an update - bad news.

Apparently the newly moulded planes have been received but the Do-17 and the Gladiator models are not up to scratch so are being redone. I’d estimate that will add another two months.

Highly suspicious that PSC first reported the first batch of new planes on Jan 18 and now they have allegedly all been received (albeit with two failing quality control) but not a single photo.

Why no photos, if they have been making progress for the last 3 months and the new moulds are as good as they claim you’d have thought that they would have been falling over themselves to post pictures.


Cheers,

Nigel

 
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Not suspicious; just as easily could be they were waiting for everything to be ready, or they just did not think of it (given that there would, presumably not be many visual differences, besides a lack of bending). Personally, I am not that interested in seeing work in progress photos; perhaps, in part, because I (despite usually being pretty picky about these things) have been having a fair amount of fun with the game as is.
 
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Nigel Heather
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NimitsTexan wrote:
Not suspicious; just as easily could be they were waiting for everything to be ready, or they just did not think of it (given that there would, presumably not be many visual differences, besides a lack of bending). Personally, I am not that interested in seeing work in progress photos; perhaps, in part, because I (despite usually being pretty picky about these things) have been having a fair amount of fun with the game as is.


I disagree. This has come about as a result of two common complaints when backers first saw the plane models

1) out of the box the models are terribly twisted, probably the worst most of us have ever seen. It is quite a shock on first sight but once you are over that, and once you have learned about the hot/cold water technique it is relatively easy to get them back into shape to be perfectly acceptable boardgame pieces.

2) the mould detail is soft, by which I mean that detail is not crisp, incorrect or not present. Of course you could argue that they are just boardgame pieces not models, but compared with the 3D renders presented in the Kckstarter campaign they don’t really measure up.

So what to do. Well it all depends on the intended purpose of the miniatures. If simply boardgame chits just for this game then I would have left them as they are. But PSC is a wargame company so I wonder whether they have ideas for a range of 1:300 models for use in other wargames. If that is the case then I could see why they would want to correct them, because whilst the originals are perfectly fine in the BoB game, I doubt they would have sold well as individual wargame models. Who knows what PSC’s intentions are but given the trouble and expense they are going to my guess is that they are hoping for a range of wargame models that they can sell seperately for use in other games.

They announced the Spitfires and Hurricanes had turned up on 18 Jan, nearly three months ago. They have now announced that all the models have been received but that two don’t meet standards. Whether this remainder have been arriving spread out over the last three months or as one batch just now we don’t know. But if these models (barring the two that failed quality control) really are beautifally, straight and sharply detailed then personally I would have been showing them off. For the BoB kickstarters this is largely a PR exercise to repair confidence. It is also holding up general release. It is also holding up some of the things that people have paid for (extra models, painted models etc.). And since the damage they are trying to repair is essentially one of poor communication, if I were PSC I would be showing off progress rather than saying “you’ve waited 6 months, we have 90% of the models but we aren’t goung to show them to you. You’ll have to wait another 2-3 months before we have them all ready for a grand reveal”.

At the moment, given PSC’s past performance, I am a doubter. We are told that significant progress has been made but until I see evidence I’m not convinced. Basically because, I struggle to understand that if they have fantastic models why aren’t they showing them off?

Cheers,

Nigel
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Nigel Heather
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A follow up in why I am questioning what is the real intent for these models.

My first thought is that if their sole purpose is as games pieces for the Battle of Britain game then they are good enough as they are. Sure I appreciate there is a shock (and bad feedback) when opening the box and seeing a twisted mess but once you have calmed down and sorted them out with hot/cold water then they are fine.

However, it has always been a question in the back of my mind - why so many different models. It makes production more complex and more expensive, it does not make any difference to the gameplay, just a little more variety on the board. So I have always imagined that PSC had other designs - they are foremost a wargames company and they produce a large range of plastic miniatures in 15mm and 20mm for WWII wargaming - they have set of rules and supplements called Battelgroup. I figured that they were using Battle of Britain as a means to start a range of miniatures for wargaming.

I have a number of their WWII vehicle models in 15mm - why did I buy them rather than the usual white metal, three reasons (1) they are cheaper (2) they are more accurate and detailed and (3) they are easier to prepare for painting. The downside is that they lack the satisfying weight of white metal and they are less robust.

So if I am a wargamer looking to buy aircraft models and I'm familiar with the detail and accuracy of plastic models from the likes of PSC, Flames of War, Zvezda then I would expecting similar - but the planes initally produced for BoB just don't measure up to that expection - so if PSC's intention is to create a range of aircrft models for wargaming then the initial moulds would have flopped and customers would have looked elsewhere. That is the real reason why I think PSC are going to the expense to remould - if it had only been for the BoB boardgame they would have weathered the feedback and left them as they are.

Cheers,

Nigel
 
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Martin S
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nheather wrote:


However, it has always been a question in the back of my mind - why so many different models?


I think Will simply got carried away during the KS as the money came pouring in.
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Achtung_Panzer10 wrote:
nheather wrote:


However, it has always been a question in the back of my mind - why so many different models?


I think Will simply got carried away during the KS as the money came pouring in.


Possibly, you’d think a company that produces plastic miniatures would know better though. It is a very expensive business to create a mini (design, mould making, test moulds, production run) and although there is no doubt that adding the different minis as stretch goals increased the number of investors, you have to remember that those orders are only paying the discounted price for the base game.

If the minis were always intended to just be for the game I think it is going to be a costly mistake.

I still maintain that the absence of photos is quite strange.

Cheers,

Nigel
 
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pscgames wrote:
Ok chaps, I have to bite the bullet - whereas the main paper and card components are great, I have got the plastic wrong for the miniatures.

I cannot sticking plaster it.

I made the wrong decision with the too pliable plastic and the wrong decision with the manufacturer.

I apologise to everyone for these wrong decisions I made.

It does not sit right with me that the game is not as good as it should be and the quality is not 100%.

It is a fantastic game and deserves the best possible plastic miniature planes.

My plan is this:-
I am going to rework and upgrade all the plastic planes with a different, reliable manufacturer (they do work for CMON, Games Workshop, Asmodee, Cryptozoic and Flying Frog Productions) in a robust but quality plastic.

We will continue to ship everyone a game now with "wonky" plastic plus all stretch goals (except the bonus kit - another story involving customs! If you do not get one now you will with the new plastic planes). At least you can get a few hours on your logbooks!

We will then ship you all a free set of new, improved plastic planes at no extra to you when they have been tooled and moulded - to be confirmed but March 2018 seems likely. Basically it will be as soon as possible - we had not planned on this so will take time to re-tool and mould. We will also send add-on plane packs at the same time.

The retail release will be delayed until we have the new plastic minis to retrofit the rest of the print run.

Rest assured, everyone must know that if we get it wrong, we will rectify things.

Best wishes,
Will


So, any word on the timeline for the Dowding pledges (the painted aircraft)?
 
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NimitsTexan wrote:
pscgames wrote:
Ok chaps, I have to bite the bullet - whereas the main paper and card components are great, I have got the plastic wrong for the miniatures.

I cannot sticking plaster it.

I made the wrong decision with the too pliable plastic and the wrong decision with the manufacturer.

I apologise to everyone for these wrong decisions I made.

It does not sit right with me that the game is not as good as it should be and the quality is not 100%.

It is a fantastic game and deserves the best possible plastic miniature planes.

My plan is this:-
I am going to rework and upgrade all the plastic planes with a different, reliable manufacturer (they do work for CMON, Games Workshop, Asmodee, Cryptozoic and Flying Frog Productions) in a robust but quality plastic.

We will continue to ship everyone a game now with "wonky" plastic plus all stretch goals (except the bonus kit - another story involving customs! If you do not get one now you will with the new plastic planes). At least you can get a few hours on your logbooks!

We will then ship you all a free set of new, improved plastic planes at no extra to you when they have been tooled and moulded - to be confirmed but March 2018 seems likely. Basically it will be as soon as possible - we had not planned on this so will take time to re-tool and mould. We will also send add-on plane packs at the same time.

The retail release will be delayed until we have the new plastic minis to retrofit the rest of the print run.

Rest assured, everyone must know that if we get it wrong, we will rectify things.

Best wishes,
Will


So, any word on the timeline for the Dowding pledges (the painted aircraft)?


Thought you weren't suspicious !!!!
They're all the same...
 
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pscgames wrote:
Ok chaps, I have to bite the bullet - whereas the main paper and card components are great, I have got the plastic wrong for the miniatures.


I disagree with the 'love' given out here.

The graphic design, thought and care that went into this 'redesign' is non-existent.

Absolutely no effort in the design of squadron cards; bland black silhouettes for planes and practically no background, backs plain simple roundel, no effort or thought.
Plain red cards for German missions more or less the same as the original, no graphics for cities or airfield or radars etc, backs again absolutely zero effort, simple German cross!
Flight boards for both sides plain and boring and far to big with wasted space everywhere.

I could design better in half an hour, and I have no graphic design training.

I'm sick of the attitude these days of accepting inferior products and accepting poor customer service. People need to STOP paying companies ridiculous amounts of money for toys and especially toys of inferior quality.
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