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Subject: First round - you're flying blind rss

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Martin S
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The rules clearly state that in round 1 the German player allocates missions before he allocates flight cards. This means that he could reach his City target only to find that he has Stukas (better used against airfields and radar stations) or even worse, no bombers at all.

It would seem better to reverse the order so that missions can be allocated based on the ability to achieve i.e. the make up of each flight group. This only applies to set up ahead of round 1. What do others think?
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Roger Anslow
England
Warminster
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Having read this one through I see exactly where you are coming from. I don't mind some randomness but this seems to overdo it. As you say you would at least want some of the bomber heavy flights to hit the city's, or stukas to hit the airfields/radars. It is random enough just placing six cards in each flight. Imagine flying all the way to Belfast with just 5 me109s and one Stuka, it would seem rather pointless as would 6 Heinkels to knock over a radar station.

The best way as you suggest would be to randomly deal the flights and then allocate the missions. My only other thought is there is a game balance issue for the order but it does take away some of the flight management aspects of the game which is part of the fun.

Cheers,

Roger.
 
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Martin S
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Agreed Roger, but remember the problem is only with set up / turn 1.
 
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Rick v. Nooij
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Agreed,

Another option would be to allow the Luftwaffe player to combine his own initial flights from the squadron cards he draws from the Luftflotte ready deck during the Squadron Alert phase on the first turn.

Though handling 12 / 18 cards for luftflotte 2 and 3 in one go would be a bit of a handful, and this way of building a flight might give the Luftwaffe player too much of an edge on round 1.
 
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Roger Anslow
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Once you have conducted the RAF intercept, you then have the option to return to base with a failed mission, or continue (if you have the aircraft to make it worthwhile) into the next turn and move again, and don't forget you could use two fuel tokens to move 10 spaces to try and complete the mission for that flight. Which does mean you could have another dogfight on your hands but not an intercept.

It is a weird movement system when you first read it, but makes sense once you have run through it a couple of times. Have fun.

Cheers,

Roger.
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Riccardo Masini
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Achtung_Panzer10 wrote:
The rules clearly state that in round 1 the German player allocates missions before he allocates flight cards. This means that he could reach his City target only to find that he has Stukas (better used against airfields and radar stations) or even worse, no bombers at all.

It would seem better to reverse the order so that missions can be allocated based on the ability to achieve i.e. the make up of each flight group. This only applies to set up ahead of round 1. What do others think?


This actually occured to us in our first play yesterday evening, and it was quite painful for the German player. What should he do with a flight with no bombers? Use it as a bait for the British planes? Abort immediately? In any way, he would give up 2 victory points to the opponent.
A solution we thought could work is to give the German player a mulligan if any flight in a Luftflotte happens to be without any bombers. In this case, he simply reshuffles all the squadron cards in that Luftflotte and begins again the Squadron Alert procedure.
 
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Minot
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Spider dpb wrote:

[As an aside, the terminology here grates a bit for me. A group of squadrons is usually a Wing in UK parlance, perhaps a Geschwader in German? Certainly not a flight, which is a sub-unit of a squadron?]


I think the term "flight" is referring to an adhoc group of aircraft, not flight in the sense of a sub-unit of a squadron. In modern parlance, we would call it a "strike package;" the 1940s controllers would have call it a "raid." Honestly, I am not sure what the better term for it would be in game, but I do not think Geschwader (which referred to a permanent or semi-permanent organization of multiple gruppen) would be any more accurate. Probably, there is not a universal, non-anachronistic term that would have worked any better.
 
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Mervyn Douglas
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Achtung_Panzer10 wrote:
The rules clearly state that in round 1 the German player allocates missions before he allocates flight cards. This means that he could reach his City target only to find that he has Stukas (better used against airfields and radar stations) or even worse, no bombers at all.

It would seem better to reverse the order so that missions can be allocated based on the ability to achieve i.e. the make up of each flight group. This only applies to set up ahead of round 1. What do others think?


Hi Martin - while you say the German "allocates flight cards", doesnt the rule stating that he deals 6 cards face down mean that he doesnt see the make up of each flight at all on turn 1? Maybe I've missed the bit where it says about being able to look at your own cards at any time.

Or do you assume that throughout the rules where it says about placing cards face down that is solely to keep then hidden from the other player?
Thinking further about it, the German has to know the makeup of the flight otherwise how could he decide about the ME109s returning home if 2 fuel chits were used?

I think I've answered my own question, but its the expression in the rules about dealing the cards face down that is confusing to me, as I always thought that meant hidden from you too (in the game that would be until they fight or attempt to bomb, which makes little sense in game terms!).
 
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Martin S
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Hi mervyn

The way we play it is to reverse the step order in Turn 1, so 6 cards are dealt for each flight and the Luftwaffe can look. He then allocates Mission cards.

So whilst the Luftwaffe player can't allocate cards across his flights, he at least can allocate airfields / radar stations to flights with Stukas.

It's not the rules as written, but makes game sense to us. Hope this helps.
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Mervyn Douglas
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Yes thank you, that makes sense. Having played a few games solo I dont mind not knowing the composition of the flights until "contact", but we have a first proper (1v1) game scheduled for tomorrow morning and thought I would check.

Must admit, I think the gameplay is very good in this version, although the rules could have been clearer! It is still an achievement to take a good game and make it even better.
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Minot
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Just old wrote:
Achtung_Panzer10 wrote:
The rules clearly state that in round 1 the German player allocates missions before he allocates flight cards. This means that he could reach his City target only to find that he has Stukas (better used against airfields and radar stations) or even worse, no bombers at all.

It would seem better to reverse the order so that missions can be allocated based on the ability to achieve i.e. the make up of each flight group. This only applies to set up ahead of round 1. What do others think?


Hi Martin - while you say the German "allocates flight cards", doesnt the rule stating that he deals 6 cards face down mean that he doesnt see the make up of each flight at all on turn 1? Maybe I've missed the bit where it says about being able to look at your own cards at any time.

Or do you assume that throughout the rules where it says about placing cards face down that is solely to keep then hidden from the other player?
Thinking further about it, the German has to know the makeup of the flight otherwise how could he decide about the ME109s returning home if 2 fuel chits were used?

I think I've answered my own question, but its the expression in the rules about dealing the cards face down that is confusing to me, as I always thought that meant hidden from you too (in the game that would be until they fight or attempt to bomb, which makes little sense in game terms!).


Yeah, I take “face down” to mean hidden from the other player, not from you. There is no logical reason to hide your cards from yourself, and as noted, it could actually cause you to break the Reach for Home rules.
 
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Ian S
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Perhaps some organised shuffling could be applied, to ensure there was a degree of balance in the flights e.g. each set of 6 cards comprised of:

4 cards from a bomber weighted pack
2 cards from a fighter weighted pack

I use the term 'weighted' to still allow for variation, but to make bizarrely weighted flights less likely. (Think Countdown TV show 'numbers round' type weighting for those in Blighty who will understand the reference)

Personally, I'd be tempted to ignore the 'blind' objectives, and let the German player at least align objectives to the flights they have - perhaps with a time limit applied so they have to make quick decisions merely to avoid obviously stupid combos - and specifically to prevent analysis paralysis.
 
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