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Subject: What are your toughs on inserts (like broken token and Daedalus) rss

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Chris Yi
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Interesting discussion! I enjoy making Foam Core inserts on occasion, but it is quite time consuming (because I'm not great at it. But they do come out pretty nice looking). However, I'll do it if I feel like it really makes the set-up and tear-down time quicker. My wife made an organizer for Dead of Winter, and though we don't play it terribly often, the few times a year we do play it are made so much more pleasant because of it. If I owned and played Caverna, I wouldn't be able to without a custom oragnizer.

BUT! For lots of other games, I've found I don't need to make a whole organizer when I use the Dollar Tree miniature tupperwares. These things do great work for most resources and chits in games to the point where I don't make very many custom inserts:
LINK: https://www.dollartree.com/Sure-Fresh-Mini-Storage-Container...
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Greg Spence
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One thing to consider since we're comparing prices of games to inserts...

The majority of games are produced in huge quantities (10,000 - 50,000) overseas, like in China, where labor is much cheaper. Also the machines to produce them are often printing presses that are designed to print boards and cards and components in mere seconds.

Most of the laser cut insert companies I'm aware of (TBT, MR, Daedalus, Go7) all produce their products here in the U.S. where labor, rent and insurance is much more expensive. And laser cutting, by nature is actually very slow. A single insert of ours takes between 30 - 60 minutes to cut, and at the end of that we have only one product to sell. On top of that, we have to sand, QC and package that product which can take another 10-15 minutes.

I know that at the end of the day money is money, but I wanted to at least give you a little insight into the difference in processes and why the straight dollar comparison is sometimes a little unfair. I know the margins in board games and I know the margins in inserts and we are working on much less of a profit margin than most games. This is why you can find games sold online at 20% discounts.

The only way we could attempt to bring the prices down drastically would be to outsource all of our production as well, but this might also result in a drop in quality. But the other issue is that inserts are more of a niche market. While games can outsource because they can get ten's of thousands printed, we only sell inserts in the single-digit thousands and often that's not a large enough number even for outsourcing to bring the price down.

Hope that sheds a little light on the subject for those that maybe want to understand the manufacturing process a little better.

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Gabor Ironat
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gspence wrote:
One thing to consider since we're comparing prices of games to inserts...

The majority of games are produced in huge quantities (10,000 - 50,000) overseas, like in China, where labor is much cheaper. Also the machines to produce them are often printing presses that are designed to print boards and cards and components in mere seconds.

Most of the laser cut insert companies I'm aware of (TBT, MR, Daedalus, Go7) all produce their products here in the U.S. where labor, rent and insurance is much more expensive. And laser cutting, by nature is actually very slow. A single insert of ours takes between 30 - 60 minutes to cut, and at the end of that we have only one product to sell. On top of that, we have to sand, QC and package that product which can take another 10-15 minutes.

I know that at the end of the day money is money, but I wanted to at least give you a little insight into the difference in processes and why the straight dollar comparison is sometimes a little unfair. I know the margins in board games and I know the margins in inserts and we are working on much less of a profit margin than most games. This is why you can find games sold online at 20% discounts.

The only way we could attempt to bring the prices down drastically would be to outsource all of our production as well, but this might also result in a drop in quality. But the other issue is that inserts are more of a niche market. While games can outsource because they can get ten's of thousands printed, we only sell inserts in the single-digit thousands and often that's not a large enough number even for outsourcing to bring the price down.

Hope that sheds a little light on the subject for those that maybe want to understand the manufacturing process a little better.



That was very informative.

Can you tell me what are the options for Scythe and future proofing for the expansions?
 
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Greg Spence
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Tanori wrote:

That was very informative.

Can you tell me what are the options for Scythe and future proofing for the expansions?


With Scythe, there is just too much content to fit in the standard box. There are already two expansion out and a third and final expansion being created next year. Because Jamey knows that many people out there really want to keep everything in one box, he decided to make the Scythe Legendary Box which is the same footprint as the normal box, just twice as high.

Since this is basically an empty box, it really only makes sense to be sold in conjunction with inserts made by companies like The Broken Token. So he didn't put this box into wide distribution, its only available through specific online stores, us being one of them.

http://www.thebrokentoken.com/scythe-legendary-box/

Our insert for the base box already holds the base game plus Invaders from Afar. We will be creating an add-on organizer that consumes the other half of the Legendary box and it will hold the last two expansions.

Anyone that already owns our Scythe organizer will be able to easily transfer it to the new box if they want to do that. But, we will not have the add-on organizer designed until the components for the final expansion are locked in.

Obviously its a big investment to buy a new box and two organizers to hold it all, so this isnt for everyone. But if you are big fan of Scythe, plan on getting all the content, and want to continue playing it a lot, this solution will make it MUCH easier to transport and much faster to setup.
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gspence wrote:
One thing to consider since we're comparing prices of games to inserts...

The majority of games are produced in huge quantities (10,000 - 50,000) overseas, like in China, where labor is much cheaper. Also the machines to produce them are often printing presses that are designed to print boards and cards and components in mere seconds.

Most of the laser cut insert companies I'm aware of (TBT, MR, Daedalus, Go7) all produce their products here in the U.S. where labor, rent and insurance is much more expensive. And laser cutting, by nature is actually very slow. A single insert of ours takes between 30 - 60 minutes to cut, and at the end of that we have only one product to sell. On top of that, we have to sand, QC and package that product which can take another 10-15 minutes.

I know that at the end of the day money is money, but I wanted to at least give you a little insight into the difference in processes and why the straight dollar comparison is sometimes a little unfair. I know the margins in board games and I know the margins in inserts and we are working on much less of a profit margin than most games. This is why you can find games sold online at 20% discounts.

The only way we could attempt to bring the prices down drastically would be to outsource all of our production as well, but this might also result in a drop in quality. But the other issue is that inserts are more of a niche market. While games can outsource because they can get ten's of thousands printed, we only sell inserts in the single-digit thousands and often that's not a large enough number even for outsourcing to bring the price down.

Hope that sheds a little light on the subject for those that maybe want to understand the manufacturing process a little better.

I was there when you folks conducted tours of your facilities. I recall that there's no way for you folks to take advantages of scale. A volume order is still going to be about the same cost per unit.
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