Recommend
20 
 Thumb up
 Hide
36 Posts
Prev «  1 , 2  | 

Abstract Games» Forums » General

Subject: New Game: Eigenstate rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
grid wrote:
I've been thinking of it as a list of clarifications I've been asked. For most of them, they're asked maybe one in five games. (Some of them quite a bit less frequently.) "Can I jump other pieces" is probably the most frequently asked,
To me, that means that the movement rules should make it clearer whether or not you can jump over other pieces.

Generally I don't want to have to search two places (in the movement rules and then in the FAQ) to answer a question about movement.

The added FAQ approach means I must read more text, too, which is bad. Tweaking the existing rules usually takes less text than the additional FAQ sentences.

----

E.g. the Mr. Jack rules do this terribly in my opinion, with a page describing the abilities of the 8 characters... and then a separate "FAQ" page later, more clearly and completely describing the abilities of the 8 characters. Give each character's rules in a single place, not split between two places!

----

FWIW to be honest, the current movement rules (posted upthread) seem very brief and murky to me (at least, without looking at the addended FAQ); if I'd not already seen your description of the game, I'm unsure I'd understand what is intended. "All pegs in a piece other than the center peg represent the possible moves for that piece." is pretty vague. "Represent" in what way? What is a legal move and how does it relate to the pegs? I can think of various plausible ways that pegs could represent moves, e.g. I've seen some graphic designs for chess-like pieces where a "peg" or other symbol close to the center means it can move 1 space in that direction and a symbol farther from the center means it can move arbitrarily far in that direction, like a rook or bishop.

Hmm, and another possibly useful bit of feedback: "Then place 2 pegs in any of their pieces." left me uncertain whether the intention is that I must put 2 pegs into the same piece, or could also choose to put 1 peg each into 2 different pieces. I shouldn't have to go look in a FAQ to get clarity on such a core basic rule of the game. The rule itself should be clear, e.g. "Place 2 pegs in any 2 empty holes of their pieces (both pegs in one piece, or each peg in a different piece)" or some such; probably there's a better way to phrase it; that's just off the top of my head... note also that simply adding a few extra explicit words "in any 2 empty holes" here also removes the need for two complete sentences/items in the FAQ.)

I hope that is useful... or at least interesting.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
jos horst
Netherlands
groningen
groningen
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Game looks interesting, and both eigenstate and superposition sound fascinating, but I have a hard time coupling the terms to what's going on in the game.

Wouldn't statistical dynamics be a better metaphor? An extra peg adds energy to a particle, increasing the number of moves that are possible.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
christian freeling
Netherlands
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmb
grid wrote:
Literally the day after I posted this forum thread, (and submitted the game to be listed on BGG) Adam suggested another (probably better) name for the game using the quantum physics theme: Super Position.
I think that's terrible! Eigenstate on the other hand sounds very good, especially because it means 'own' in German and Dutch. For me it has the same charm as the comic strip Phoebe Zeitgeist. I loved that name. Still do!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Bentley
United States
Madison
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mrraow wrote:
grid wrote:
Anyone have thoughts or strong feelings about either name? It's possible we'll be going with a different theme entirely when the game goes up on Kickstarter, and in that case it'd have another completely different name, probably.
Blooms may be free soon, if Nick keeps agonising over his game whistle

Low blow, Tavener.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Bentley
United States
Madison
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
christianF wrote:
grid wrote:
Literally the day after I posted this forum thread, (and submitted the game to be listed on BGG) Adam suggested another (probably better) name for the game using the quantum physics theme: Super Position.
I think that's terrible! Eigenstate on the other hand sounds very good, especially because it means 'own' in German and Dutch. For me it has the same charm as the comic strip Phoebe Zeitgeist. I loved that name. Still do!

The key question for me: are these names going to be evocative to the sort of person who will buy this game? I'm not sure any of the suggested names will be, but it's a hard question to be confident about.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
christian freeling
Netherlands
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmb
milomilo122 wrote:
christianF wrote:
grid wrote:
Literally the day after I posted this forum thread, (and submitted the game to be listed on BGG) Adam suggested another (probably better) name for the game using the quantum physics theme: Super Position.
I think that's terrible! Eigenstate on the other hand sounds very good, especially because it means 'own' in German and Dutch. For me it has the same charm as the comic strip Phoebe Zeitgeist. I loved that name. Still do!

The key question for me: are these names going to be evocative to the sort of person who will buy this game? I'm not sure any of the suggested names will be, but it's a hard question to be confident about.
With big data at your disposal you could probably write an algorithm, but there's always the 'weird' factor. You can't predict what works. I guess that you can to some degree predict what wouldn't work, but that doesn't solve the problem. You need everything you can think of ... and luck.

P.S. I still like Eigenstate.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pablo Schulman
Brazil
Belo Horizonte
Minas Gerais
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Martin,

I agree with Nick and Russ regarding FAQs. FAQs feel like errata. So, if you know people may have some questions regarding the rules as written, rewrite the rules to accomodate those questions.

For example:

hypothetical rules wrote:
On a player's turn, in this order, if they can, they must:
1. Move one of their pieces.
2. Then place 2 pegs in any of their pieces.

Piece Movement

* Pieces may only move to a certain square if they have a corresponding peg. For example, you'll need to place a peg behind a piece's center peg before it can move backwards.
* Pieces can jump over any other pieces.
* When a piece moves onto another piece, the other piece is removed from the game. You can capture your own pieces (though it's almost certainly a bad idea.)

Peg Placement

* You can only place pegs in any empty space of your own pieces still in play (not yet captured)
* You can place your two pegs on different pieces on the same turn.
* You do not need to place either of the pegs on the piece you just moved.

Also, you should clarify the whole space in pieces and corresponding movement thing. Some figures may go a long way in helping people understand.

PS: I like the current name.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Grider
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks everyone for the feedback!

I have a new draft of the rules, and I included a couple of illustrations. I also updated the PnP: http://tinyurl.com/eigenstate I will probably add some illustrations with end-game examples, but I don't think they're 100% necessary.

Quote:

Eigenstate (rules v1.2)


Setup
Each player selects a color and takes all 6 pieces of that color (on a 6x6 board) and sets them on the row of the board closest to the player. Every piece starts with two pegs in it: a peg in the center representing its position on the board, and one additional peg allowing the piece to move one space forward.

Gameplay
On a player's turn, in this order, if they can, they must:
1. Move one of their pieces.
2. Then place 2 pegs in any of their pieces.


Piece Movement
All pegs in a piece other than the center peg represent the possible moves that piece can take, relative to its position on the board, (represented by its center peg).


For example, the board on the right is after the black player has taken their first turn. They moved a piece (1), and then added a peg to that piece, as well as another piece (2). In subsequent turns, that piece can now potentially move to spaces (a) and (b), and piece (2) can now move to spaces (c), and (d).

- Pegs are never removed from a piece, so each piece will always be able to move one space forward throughout the game. (a) and (d)
- Pieces can jump over other pieces. (c)
- Pieces cannot move off the game board.
- Pieces do not rotate.
- A piece cannot move backwards unless there is a peg behind the piece's center peg.
- When a piece is moved onto another piece, the other piece is removed from the game.
+ Yes, it is possible to capture your own pieces. Though it's probably a bad idea.

Peg Placement
Pegs have to be placed into empty holes in your own pieces, and only into pieces that have not yet been captured.
- You can place your two pegs on different pieces on the same turn.
- You do not need to place either of the pegs on the piece you just moved.

Goal
If you reduce your opponent to just one piece remaining, you win the game.

Secondary goal: In a game where both players have exactly two pieces remaining, a player may instead win the game by filling one of their remaining pieces with pegs.

Feedback definitely welcome. Thanks!!!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
grid wrote:
Each player selects a color and takes all 6 pieces of that color (on a 6x6 board) and sets them on the row of the board closest to the player.
"(on a 6x6 board)" seems strangely positioned there ("takes all 6 pieces of that color (on a 6x6 board)"), as if the pieces start on the board and players take them from the board.

I'd propose removing it and adding "6x6" before "board" later in the sentence:

Each player selects a color and takes all 6 pieces of that color and sets them on the row of the 6x6 board closest to the player.

Quote:

- When a piece is moved onto another piece, the other piece is removed from the game.
+ Yes, it is possible to capture your own pieces. Though it's probably a bad idea.
Could be simplified and combined for conciseness (and remove the tangentially obvious strategy advice), e.g.:

- When a piece is moved onto another piece (of either player), the other piece is removed from the game.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Grider
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks everyone in this forum for the feedback! I can't believe it's been so long since I made this post... (seems like the time has flown by!) ...but the game is actually live on Kickstarter right now.

I'm not sure if it's kosher to post a link or not, but you can search for Thrive to find it. (Yes, that's the name we ended up going with.)

We took the game to a ton of conventions, and the rules have been through another 6 or so iterations since this thread. Lots of positive feedback, and I have a 27 page document full of notes on variants and other ways to play. (Will be releasing some of that during the KS, but all of it eventually.) That's not even including the solo puzzles that are in a different document.

I think it's got gorgeous artwork, and am confident Adam will be shipping everyone a quality product. We actually launched two days ago, and have amazingly already hit the funding goal yesterday.

We got some great press too. For example:

Logan over at GeekDad said "Thrive is like what you would get if you reached inside of chess and turned it inside out."

Everything Board Games said "I can't find anything about this game that prevents me from wanting to put it back on the table right away. It's a phenomenal tabletop experience that should surprise everyone who gets it. I'm giving Thrive a score of Evolutionary."

Meeple Street said "Despite having a prototype copy already, I will be backing the game on Kickstarter to get additional copies for my classroom. The game provides great opportunities for students to develop their critical thinking and problem solving skills."

I'm hoping it keeps building, because I know there is a relatively long list of stretch goals it would be awesome to hit. Thanks again to everyone here. I don't post all that often, but I do especially appreciate the forum for us to discuss and think about these types of game.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Hollywood
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm just beginning to play a game of Thrive on AiAi with Stephen Tavener.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Prev «  1 , 2  |