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Subject: Voracious Goddess: from fun to frustration rss

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Joe Martineau
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I can't really think how to make the clue more obvious without it saying, "The items can be found at the following coordinates."


I think the argument could be made that it should be a satchel item, yes. But, there are other fluff satchel items like the History of the Continent. I'm not sure that would help with OP's problem.
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Miranda Folland
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So we've been following the two clues,
Spoiler (click to reveal)
the two coordinates and ended up in two different caves. In one, a small cave, we found an eye. (Thank God!) Tonight, we spent many hours fully exploring a huge cave at the other coordinates but found nothing (and certainly no food either). Where is the other item? Where exactly?
Please. We are so frustrated!

I must add that the extreme lack of food in our travels adds to our frustration. Haven't found anywhere to hunt at all since leaving the statue. Have died at least four times now forcing us to resort to using the waypoint variant just to continue the adventure. We are determined to finish this. It's just way too difficult even though we've read and assumed that we've correctly interpreted the clues. The game mechanics are interesting; the level of difficulty however is just too high.
 
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Michael Nerman
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You can go to an old hunting ground and just use the junkier hunting cards to refill your life. When the game runs out, just "save and load." It'll help if you have something to help you, like:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
the plant that gives you a bonus to hunting


Regarding the rest:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
You need to go to the temple in the jungle, that has the spore-mushrooms when you first enter. At the first junction, head to the right, then turn left (North) and go all the way to the top. Solve the riddle correctly and when you go up there should be a chest with the eye. Then take the elevator to the surface.
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Michael Nerman
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RageGoblin wrote:
I can't really think how to make the clue more obvious without it saying, "The items can be found at the following coordinates."


I think the argument could be made that it should be a satchel item, yes. But, there are other fluff satchel items like the History of the Continent. I'm not sure that would help with OP's problem.

Spoiler alert!
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The history of the continent isn't just fluff.


Anyway, the clues aren't exactly precise. You try to go to where they're leading you and have to just sort of explore everything in the general area, since the
Spoiler (click to reveal)
"days" referred to in the clue don't correspond to the number of cards you have to travel.
 
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John K
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nerman8r wrote:


Anyway, the clues aren't exactly precise. You try to go to where they're leading you and have to just sort of explore everything in the general area, since the
Spoiler (click to reveal)
"days" referred to in the clue don't correspond to the number of cards you have to travel.

Not quite
Spoiler (click to reveal)
the “days” do in fact correspond to the number of cards you have to travel. Not the direct distance.
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Miranda Folland
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nerman8r wrote:
You can go to an old hunting ground and just use the junkier hunting cards to refill your life. When the game runs out, just "save and load." It'll help if you have something to help you, like:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
the plant that gives you a bonus to hunting
Starting a new session each time leaves us searching anew for hunting grounds. I guess that's why you would mark down somewhere where they were to find them again, but as we only play once every two weeks or so, we can't remember.

nerman8r wrote:
Regarding the rest:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
You need to go to the temple in the jungle, that has the spore-mushrooms when you first enter. At the first junction, head to the right, then turn left (North) and go all the way to the top. Solve the riddle correctly and when you go up there should be a chest with the eye. Then take the elevator to the surface.
Thanks so much. The part that we needed to know was
Spoiler (click to reveal)
"Solve the riddle correctly."
Because we found something, just not the right thing, we assumed we had to just keep searching. After searching everywhere, we were completely baffled. There was no indication that we were incorrect. I assume many others not unlike us would just leave and wander endlessly.

This reminds me of so many episodes of The Amazing Race where one mistake can send a team off on a long winding road to nowhere until someone or something external to the game helps them. That's not fair in this game where it's meant for the game to have internal clues, enough to help when you're stuck. This is what I mean by the frustration level being too high - when it depends on you having to ask for help outside of the game to solve the curse. By the time I asked for help, our party had left the temple ready to forage around endlessly or quit (we hadn't decided yet). We knew the temple was the right place and we had searched it thoroughly so that was the end of the clues that the game offered.
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Michael Nerman
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I think it's problematic about the game, but enjoy many of the other elements of the game. I realized this pretty early into my experience, so when I became frustrated with this part of the curse, I just looked up the solution. Better that than quitting the game and throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

7th Continent is an awesome game, but I can't help but think how much more awesome it would have been with another designer on the team, more experienced designers, or more playtesting. I can certainly appreciate how much work went into it, but some of these things seem sort of obvious...
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Brian Hamilton
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nerman8r wrote:
but some of these things seem sort of obvious...

What would you have changed?
Make it easier?
 
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Zachary Homrighaus
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nerman8r wrote:
I think it's problematic about the game, but enjoy many of the other elements of the game. I realized this pretty early into my experience, so when I became frustrated with this part of the curse, I just looked up the solution. Better that than quitting the game and throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

7th Continent is an awesome game, but I can't help but think how much more awesome it would have been with another designer on the team, more experienced designers, or more playtesting. I can certainly appreciate how much work went into it, but some of these things seem sort of obvious...

I really think the game is a masterpiece for what it's trying to do. There are 2 key elements being discussed here.

1. Hunting Ground - too few, forget where they are, get harder / less rewarding, can result in little/no food, etc.

2. VG clues - too hard, might miss something, spend a lot of time aimlessly wandering, etc.

I think for each of these, the designers had a very delicate needle the thread. If they make the clues very easy, very few players will miss them or get confused... but lots of players will be disappointed that the clues were simple. In a game like this, we like to feel clever and if the designers spoon feed us the clues, it becomes more of an exercise and less of a game. Similarly, if food is plentiful or always pays off a lot fewer people would die or get frustrated about poor hunting results... but similarly, there would be no challenge and therefore no payoff. The games needs tension to work. If you have no reason to ever fail a check, there is no game... it's just an exercise in flipping over cards and revealing the map. If they make it too hard, no one ever gets through the curse and everyone quits in frustration.

The designers needed to choose some point between these extremes that provides the best balanced experiences for the most players. We'll never know how small tweaks to the clues or hunting generosity or test skill check difficulty would affect the experience, but simply nerfing all the hard stuff and buffing all the good stuff would end up with a MUCH worse game. As part of the bargain, you are going to have some players who don't care for where the balance was struck, but that would have bene the case wherever they drew the line.

For me, this game is deliciously frustrating and challenging. I took 4 tries to beat VG getting better every time and wouldn't change a thing!



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Michael Nerman
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bdean152 wrote:
nerman8r wrote:
but some of these things seem sort of obvious...

What would you have changed?
Make it easier?
Not easier or harder. It just seems like the clues were misleading.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Even if they had removed any mention of days and just said that
one eye is east and the other is north-east, that would have been better.


But the Offering curse is worse. I played through it because I wanted to see the ending, but the mechanics of the curse took away from the game, in my opinion. I would recommend that folks just skip it.
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nerman8r wrote:
Not easier or harder. It just seems like the clues were misleading.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Even if they had removed any mention of days and just said that
one eye is east and the other is north-east, that would have been better.


But the Offering curse is worse. I played through it because I wanted to see the ending, but the mechanics of the curse took away from the game, in my opinion. I would recommend that folks just skip it.

How are the clues misleading?
Spoiler (click to reveal)
If you understand that 1 terrain card is the equivalent of 1 day of travelling, the text on the VG clue card leads you exactly where you need to be.


As for Offering, I really enjoyed playing it together with Dark Chest, as both curses lead you to the same places most of the time. As a result, there's lots to do and to discover, but I agree that playing either of them solo might've been a grind. If I had played them one after the other I probably would've given up on the second one.
I think they go together so well that the rules should actually advise players to do so.
 
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Michael Nerman
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I haven't played the Dark Chest. What you say doesn't inspire me with confidence...
 
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Jason Sesta
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If you do some digging on the forums I think you'll find many people saying to play both Offering and Dark Chest with another curse as they don't really hold up on their own. I believe this is largely due to VG being the entire game upon original design. These other curses were added later for some variety.

As a first edition owner I am thankful we did not run into the statue/clue issue since we reached her with nothing. We 100% decided to keep the vision though instead of putting it back. It's silly to have to try and remember that over the course of multiple sessions.

It would be nice if in future designs of this sort that they try and provide ways to get hints to get you back on track (like some loading screens do in video games). We did not have any trouble understanding the vision clue but man could it send you on a wild goose chase if you ignore or don't understand it.
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