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Hannibal & Hamilcar» Forums » General

Subject: Hannibal + Hamilcar NEW Rules - Asking for Opinions rss

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Eric Engstrom
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Here are the almost completed versions of the new rules. We're asking the community to review them and see if there's any errors or anything terribly confusing!

If you have a moment, please have a look. You should be able to leave comments directly in the Google Doc for the rulebooks and scenariobook.

For the playbook, you'll have to download it as a pdf, so please leave comments here or PM them to me. The playbook has remained similar in format: there have just been changes to the rules sections, and the tutorials have been rewritten with guidance and possible solutions (I'm super interested in what you all think about these!).

Hannibal rules:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1alfrATSaQAyjZr5fnZI1gOhf...

Scenario book:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oJv4EN2k2MJnsOpmvLfBqy_Z...

Hamilcar rules:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EiIwlPghULZU6kcj3DQ29Woj...

Link for Playbook:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2iejnhny3bv5k33/Hannibal%20and%20H...

Thank you very much.

EDIT: The Playbook is suffering from terrible formatting issues through Dropbox for some reason. Looking into fixing. Does anyone else see many lines of garbled text? Any clues as to why?

EDIT 2: Playbook formatting fixed! Everyone should be able to view and download it now!
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Rodolphe Duhil
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Yes, the playbook lines are garbled on Dropbox. No idea why.
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Doug Adams
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What is the background here? Are these official?

(I haven’t played my copy yet but if the rules aren’t settled then I’ll wait)
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Eric Engstrom
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dougadamsau wrote:
What is the background here? Are these official?

(I haven’t played my copy yet but if the rules aren’t settled then I’ll wait)


The rules that you have are complete, but some have reported difficulty reading through them.

I was contacted by Phalanx a number of months ago to review and transpose the existing rules into a new format. So, these are official, but the rules have not been changed, just rewritten.

The folks at Phalanx wanted to do this to support members of the community who have purchased their product and also to attract gamers from outside the wargame community. So before finalizing, they want to get a community opinion (and I also want to ask the experts if everything is translated over correctly, as a few things have been renamed/rewritten to aid with clarity).

Hope this helps.
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Doug Adams
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bungeeboy wrote:

Hope this helps.


Nice, thanks for that. I must admit I am not a fan of these huge rulebooks with large footprints. They look wonderful, but not particularly practical at the table.

I’ll certainly take a look!

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Eric Engstrom
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Playbook formatting fixed! It should be viewable and downloadable now!
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Rafał Wojda
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Hi,

This might be a good moment to point out and possibly fix the only thing that really makes me pulling my hair out each time I start the game - so annoying.

What I have in mind is optional cards table at the end of the Scenario Book. Each time I start the game I need to find all the cards with number 66+, and then divide them using this inconvenient table at the end of the Scenario Book, and then incorporate the T1 cards back, and sort out the later turn cards. This is a real toil which makes me and my wife sigh every time we setup the game we otherwise love.
(at this point I simply almost memorized them to skip this painful process, but that's not the way if we want to strive towards user-friendliness )

Ideally (perhaps next edition, and as a warning for Successors ; ) ) the card numbers should group them in a better way so that all T1 cards were 66-81, Turn 2 cards 82-83, and so on. And in addition to that an icon of a turn of entry + different color, plus or asterisk for distinguishing the second group of additional cards. (I was really shocked to find out that there is no icon for that, being such a simple and elegant solution)

Wishful thinking aside - working with what physical components we have and changing the pdfs to address such things.
Perhaps you could consider rearranging the table itself by turn order rather than card number, however this is risky move since - while it would help me, I'm not sure this would be universal improvement for other Players who might like it better the original way.
Let's face it, the table is important, since it shows also card distribution for later scenarios, so it serves its purpose, but it's a bit heavy, and can be even confusing at the first contact.
How about just adding additional simplified list of the 12 cards which come into play later on, so that Player who plays the full campaign and simply wants to introduce all optional cards won't have to struggle through the table, but can quickly see something like that:
T2 - Imperium Iberia, Revolt
T3 - Manpower shortage, Dictator
T4 - Spoils of war, Citadel
T5 - Triumph, Harsh winter
T6 - Gades sides with Rome, Baetica revolts, Massinissa
T7 - Uprising in Idubeda
(man even preparing this list above made me grind my teeth )
Such a short list could easily fit into Rulebook itself, which would eliminate another issue the Players do not like that much from my experience - references to look somewhere else for information, instead of providing it right where it's needed.

This is my humble feedback and of course a solution far from ideal, which still requires diligently looking through entire deck (instead of doing this brainlessly, simply looking for an icon), but at least saves some work with figuring out the table.

Best regards,
Rafal
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Juha Loukaja
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3.16 Rank Subordination

This part is unclear to me. How does one General outrank another? Is it the Strategy Rating that I should look for?

Anyway, the rules seems to contradict themselves, consider these:

3.16.1: If one General is higher ranking, that General automatically becomes the commanding General.

3.16.6: Roman Consuls are equal in rank to each other and outrank Proconsuls.

So, if Consuls are equal in rank, how do I determine who is the higher ranking General that becomes the commanding General?
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alan beaumont
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Some are more equal than others
Merkillinen wrote:
So, if Consuls are equal in rank, how do I determine who is the higher ranking General that becomes the commanding General?
You choose when you activate for movement.
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Andy Latto
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Merkillinen wrote:
3.16 Rank Subordination

This part is unclear to me. How does one General outrank another? Is it the Strategy Rating that I should look for?

No. There are only two ranks of generals.

For Carthage, Hannibal outranks all other generals.
For Rome, Consuls outrank Proconsuls. Note that this means Consuls outrank Scipio Africanus, since he is a Proconsul.

Quote:
[Anyway, the rules seems to contradict themselves, consider these:

3.16.1: If one General is higher ranking, that General automatically becomes the commanding General.

3.16.6: Roman Consuls are equal in rank to each other and outrank Proconsuls.

So, if Consuls are equal in rank, how do I determine who is the higher ranking General that becomes the commanding General?


It's not a contradiction; it's just a rule that doesn't always apply. If one general has a higher ranking, he automatically becomes the commanding general. If the generals have equal rank, this rule does not apply, and whichever general you activated remains in command.
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Christian Letourneau
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I do not have issues with the rules so will let others comment on them.

My main issue has been with the lack of context for the scenarios and the optional rules. For the scenarios, a description of expected lenght of play and a short blurb on not only the historical context but the game context would be useful; how were the start positions/units decided on? Especially for the Charles variant, why the different setup and rules? What are they suppose to address?

As for the optional rules, more info on the impact of their inclusion would be helpful. Considering adding Bomilcar? Here is what to expect as an impact on the game. Same with adding the additional cards. What impact can we expect?

There you go. Glad to see Phalanx is putting resources into this venture when they could have easily just ignired the issue. Great job.
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Max DuBoff
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The best source for Charles' Variant is his BGG post.
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Tabletop Translation
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A MAJOR issue with the rules for new players is the lack of an index!!

The rules, as issued with the game, are poorly organized and I can't count the times I've had to skim the entire book to look up a point, only to find the explanation in what I find an illogical or only thinly related place.

Aside from rewriting the rules - which itself is a fantastic idea and very necessary - is the difficulty of finding information. Please add an index!
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Eric Engstrom
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TabletopTranslation wrote:
A MAJOR issue with the rules for new players is the lack of an index!!

The rules, as issued with the game, are poorly organized and I can't count the times I've had to skim the entire book to look up a point, only to find the explanation in what I find an illogical or only thinly related place.

Aside from rewriting the rules - which itself is a fantastic idea and very necessary - is the difficulty of finding information. Please add an index!


You can find the current version of the Index for the Phalanx edition at this thread: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/29823941#29823941p

As for the new rulebook, the sections have been combined so that all info regarding a certain set of rules (e.g. movement) can be found in one spot. This is mixed with the Game Terms sections, which house rules that are very specific for specific game concepts or pieces.

Try asking a question, then referring to the Game Terms section and/or the main rules chapter(e.g. How do I avoid battle?). Let me know if the question was answered relatively well.
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Brandon Ketchum
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Will there be a version done completely without any added house rules? I feel an indexed version with just the current rules is a must.
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Tabletop Translation
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I just want to add that I played Hannibal this weekend with an Italian friend here in Germany. We had the original rules in German, English and Italian.

But I brought a print out of this draft new version and it was faster and clearer every time we looked something up. Thanks!
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Eric Engstrom
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TabletopTranslation wrote:
I just want to add that I played Hannibal this weekend with an Italian friend here in Germany. We had the original rules in German, English and Italian.

But I brought a print out of this draft new version and it was faster and clearer every time we looked something up. Thanks!


Thank you!
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Eric Engstrom
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I'd like to ask one last question before wrapping up:

What does everyone think of the Playbook?

New players: Do the upside down solutions help to better understand the tutorials and rules?

And also...are the solutions correct?? (I'm 99% sure they are, but just asking just in case.)

Thanks so much to everyone for all your comments!
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Christopher Burke
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A couple of things compared to the scenario section relating to Hamilcar rules, that is - are these meant to be new rules, or just a better display of existing rules.

1. The updated PDF says to look at the top for the round number (13.4) the Hamilcar scenario says to look at the Roman Numerals (I-V) at the bottom for the round number.

2. In addition - the updated PDF shows that you gain supremacy if you roll a total 7 (13.4.1), the scenario rules say the other person gains supremecy if you roll a 1 or lower (marked on the board with a trident). In addition, as there are no positive modifiers other than Corvi listed - rolling a 7 seems impossible for Carthage and not common for Rome ?

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Eric Engstrom
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craznar wrote:
A couple of things compared to the scenario section relating to Hamilcar rules, that is - are these meant to be new rules, or just a better display of existing rules.

1. The updated PDF says to look at the top for the round number (13.4) the Hamilcar scenario says to look at the Roman Numerals (I-V) at the bottom for the round number.

2. In addition - the updated PDF shows that you gain supremacy if you roll a total 7 (13.4.1), the scenario rules say the other person gains supremecy if you roll a 1 or lower (marked on the board with a trident). In addition, as there are no positive modifiers other than Corvi listed - rolling a 7 seems impossible for Carthage and not common for Rome ?



Hi!

It's supposed to be a reorganization.

1) This is an omission! I've added it into the final set. Thanks for spotting!

2) I can't find where the old scenario lists 1 as taking supremacy (I see it listed for drawing a tactic card under Regroup on page 33).
I believe you are correct that it is something that is uncommon. I think there are dice modifiers in various cards that can affect this though.

Thanks a bunch for looking through!
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Christopher Burke
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bungeeboy wrote:
[q="craznar"]2) I can't find where the old scenario lists 1 as taking supremacy (I see it listed for drawing a tactic card under Regroup on page 33).


You are correct - in the 'Taking Supremacy', I misread falls as fails

oops
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Francois-Xavier
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For the Hamilcar setup, the rulebook says 1CU in Lipara, but the picture shows on PC in Lipara. So which one is it? Can you clarify that in the rules and if needed add a corrected image?
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