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Subject: Chapter 3 - Haunt #40 concerns (Spoilers) rss

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Anthony Peel
United States
Texas
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We have been playing the Betrayal games for sometime now, and there have always been some rule interpretations that we have gotten wrong from time to time that have swayed the game in one direction of the other. In this particular instance, I do not believe that we got anything wrong. I believe that it was just a matter of unfortunate conditions that lead to his particular haunt (#40) to be extremely easy for the heroes, leaving the round feeling very underwhelming (especially for the traitor).

So here is the set up, we are playing a 4 player game. All players start in the designated area, and we all spread out exploring as the game begins.

FIRST TURN
Player 1: explored around the outside of the house, drew an EVENT

I took my turn next,
Spoiler (click to reveal)
I went inside the house and immediately found the SALON with the CAT.


Player 3, went down into the basement and found the first OMEN card, failed the haunt roll.

Player 4, also came inside the house and went upstairs. He drew an EVENT card.

SECOND TURN
Player 1: explored another area outside, drew an item.

On my 2nd turn: I into the next room inside the house on the ground floor and drew the second OMEN card. I failed the haunt roll.

Player 3: explored the basement again, and drew an ITEM card.

Player 4: explored the house on the ground, and drew an EVENT card.

THIRD TURN
Player 1: explored outside again,
Spoiler (click to reveal)
found the stables and drew the 3rd and final OMEN card, but failed the haunt roll.


I then took my third turn, explored again inside on the
Spoiler (click to reveal)
ground floor of the house and discovered the kitchen. With that the fourth (and new) OMEN card, starting the haunt.


This is where we are at now. We have 3 explored tiles outside the house, 2 explored tiles in the basement, 4 explored tiles on the ground floor, and 1 explored tile upstairs.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
This lead to the SALON being 2 moves away from the only two explored tiles (one on the ground floor and one outside) with runes on them for the traitor (Player 3) to place their dolls.


POST HAUNT
TURN 1:


Spoiler (click to reveal)
Dead Doll Count: 0/8


Player 3:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Becomes the traitor!


Player 4:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Start his turn on the room tile with the rune symbol which has 5 dolls. Player 4 makes his roll to silence the room, and is successful. Player 4 then moves into the SALON with the CAT, and talks with the CAT. The CAT then moves the 2 spaces to the room with the dolls. Player 4 rolls the dice and gets a 3, and the CAT drags the shredded dolls back to the SALON where the NEST is
to end Player 4's turn.

Player 1:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Moves 2 spaces to the outside tile with the rune on it, and the other 5 dolls. Player 1 makes her roll to silence the room, and is successful. Player 1 then moves to the front door and
ends her turn.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
I then take my turn and I move the 2 spaces to the SALON, and I talk to the CAT. The CAT then returns to the room with the dolls, and I make my roll. I roll a 3, and the CAT returns with the last of the dolls from that room, and brings them back to the SALON in tatters.
I end my turn.

Player 3:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The TRAITOR, then takes her turn and summons 2 more dolls, one on each of the 2 tiles with runes. The TRAITOR, then moves the one new doll inside to discover a new tile, and the other 6 dolls outside to attack PLAYER 4. Player 4 takes little damage. The TRAITOR
ends her turn.

TURN 2:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
DEAD DOLL COUNT: 5/8


Player 4: Moved to the front steps of the house
Spoiler (click to reveal)
, and tried to silence the tile, which contained Player 1 and the 6 dolls. He failed. Player 4 used the rest of his moves to go back to the SALON, and spoke with the cat. Player 4 sent the cat to the front steps with Player 1 and the 6 dolls,
and ended his turn.

Player 1:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Began her turn by silencing the tile. Player 1 then talked to the CAT, and had the CAT rip apart the remaining 3 dolls needed, and sent the CAT back to the SALON to sit atop the heap of destroyed dolls to end the haunt.


I feel that we did everything correctly by everything that I have looked up, read, and re-read. So was this a matter of poor timing of when the haunt started, poorly placed room tiles, or poor execution of the haunt? Or was it a combination of the 3 of those? Any insight would be appreciated. The group was pretty discouraged at how that haunt ended, and decided to cut the game night short. Like I said in the beginning, we have played a lot of Betrayal (and other games), and I do not want to end on Chapter 3 due to lack of interest in this game.
 
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Jason Webster
United States
Connecticut
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Post haunt reveal : why did player 3 ( revealed traitor)not do anything. It looks like you ( player 2) triggered the haunt. Made player 3 the traitor , skipped player 3 turn, and then player 4 made the first move. Seems odd but I don’t have the haunt in front of me.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Strangely we only had 1 rune revealed when we triggered our haunt so all dolls started in one space. Not good for the player next to them.
 
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Jason Webster
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Connecticut
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The designer of the game started that they designed the game with the hope of every player getting at least 2 turns before the haunt triggered. So you didn’t trigger it too early. Maybe it was just how the house was set up. Our play of that haunt went very different and came down to a win or lose die roll.

 
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Howard Hooven
United States
Dubuque
IA
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Dnasearchr wrote:
Post haunt reveal : why did player 3 ( revealed traitor)not do anything. It looks like you ( player 2) triggered the haunt. Made player 3 the traitor , skipped player 3 turn, and then player 4 made the first move. Seems odd but I don’t have the haunt in front of me.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Strangely we only had 1 rune revealed when we triggered our haunt so all dolls started in one space. Not good for the player next to them.


Player to the left of the traitor always goes first unless otherwise stated by the haunt, so there was no skipped turn.
 
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Greg Filpus
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Bellevue
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There's another thread of people who were saying that this haunt feels lopsided towards the heroes. I agree with them, but I was the traitor that haunt so I might be biased.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
We had a big house with five different runestones available at the haunt beginning, but since I had to gather dolls to attack the cat could still kill several dolls a round when I could only make one attack with them.
 
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Jason Webster
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hhooven4 wrote:
Dnasearchr wrote:
Post haunt reveal : why did player 3 ( revealed traitor)not do anything. It looks like you ( player 2) triggered the haunt. Made player 3 the traitor , skipped player 3 turn, and then player 4 made the first move. Seems odd but I don’t have the haunt in front of me.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Strangely we only had 1 rune revealed when we triggered our haunt so all dolls started in one space. Not good for the player next to them.


Player to the left of the traitor always goes first unless otherwise stated by the haunt, so there was no skipped turn.


Wow. Missed that I think. Swear it was first to the left of haunt revealer , not traitor. We will make sure to play that right next time.
 
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Brian Neff
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Massachusetts
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Dnasearchr wrote:
hhooven4 wrote:
Dnasearchr wrote:
Post haunt reveal : why did player 3 ( revealed traitor)not do anything. It looks like you ( player 2) triggered the haunt. Made player 3 the traitor , skipped player 3 turn, and then player 4 made the first move. Seems odd but I don’t have the haunt in front of me.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Strangely we only had 1 rune revealed when we triggered our haunt so all dolls started in one space. Not good for the player next to them.


Player to the left of the traitor always goes first unless otherwise stated by the haunt, so there was no skipped turn.


Wow. Missed that I think. Swear it was first to the left of haunt revealer , not traitor. We will make sure to play that right next time.


Unless otherwise instructed, play always begins left of the Traitor (I.E. All heroes will always get at least one turn)
 
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Jason Webster
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Imadjinn wrote:
Dnasearchr wrote:
hhooven4 wrote:
Dnasearchr wrote:
Post haunt reveal : why did player 3 ( revealed traitor)not do anything. It looks like you ( player 2) triggered the haunt. Made player 3 the traitor , skipped player 3 turn, and then player 4 made the first move. Seems odd but I don’t have the haunt in front of me.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Strangely we only had 1 rune revealed when we triggered our haunt so all dolls started in one space. Not good for the player next to them.


Player to the left of the traitor always goes first unless otherwise stated by the haunt, so there was no skipped turn.


Wow. Missed that I think. Swear it was first to the left of haunt revealer , not traitor. We will make sure to play that right next time.


Unless otherwise instructed, play always begins left of the Traitor (I.E. All heroes will always get at least one turn)

Yup. Somehow I processed it as haunt revealer and not traitor.
 
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Samuel Vimes
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Michigan
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Just to offer a differing opinion, when my group played this haunt, we could not for the life of us find the cat's room, and we were afraid to attack the dolls directly, so the heroes were pretty quickly decimated by the growing horde of dolls. As with many haunts, it really depends on how things happen to come together at the start of the haunt.
 
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Jim Tunnicliff
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Comment about a rule change which is only revealed to the traitor.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
My issue with this haunt is the fact that the small monsters do not act as obstacles to the heroes, however this fact is only revealed to the traitor. Our heroes just assumed they would not be able to move out of a tile with several monsters present, so some of the heroes ended up being stuck in that tile not even attempting to leave. The traitor eventually revealed this rule to the heroes when the discussion came up amongst the heroes about getting trapped in a room with a bunch of monsters. I don't think the traitor technically had to reveal this since the heroes weren't actually attempting to move out of a room with a bunch of monsters. It seems to me that this rule change should be public knowledge from the beginning, because really the only way that the heroes can find this out is if someone forgets the rule that small monsters normally act as small objects and attempt to move thus forcing the traitor to reveal. I don't think that forgetting a rule should be rewarded.

 
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Robert Stewart
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hellcat4 wrote:
Comment about a rule change which is only revealed to the traitor.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
My issue with this haunt is the fact that the small monsters do not act as obstacles to the heroes, however this fact is only revealed to the traitor. Our heroes just assumed they would not be able to move out of a tile with several monsters present, so some of the heroes ended up being stuck in that tile not even attempting to leave. The traitor eventually revealed this rule to the heroes when the discussion came up amongst the heroes about getting trapped in a room with a bunch of monsters. I don't think the traitor technically had to reveal this since the heroes weren't actually attempting to move out of a room with a bunch of monsters. It seems to me that this rule change should be public knowledge from the beginning, because really the only way that the heroes can find this out is if someone forgets the rule that small monsters normally act as small objects and attempt to move thus forcing the traitor to reveal. I don't think that forgetting a rule should be rewarded.



You can always move at least one room in a turn, no matter your movement nor the number of obstacles/enemies present (other effects may prevent you moving - like a failed roll on a location ability)
 
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Eoin R
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Another traitor here who was horribly underwhelmed by this haunt - I got two turns and the heroes fulfilled their victory condition. There were three of them, and one was stuck deep in the basement unable to contribute, so I really could have lost even faster.

One suggestion I would make for errata/next edition would be that a group of dolls of size X (4?) counts as a small obstacle (once per turn, if this is too much?) - with my first monster turn, I banished the cat as far outside as it could go, which was 5 tiles from the next hero, who had 5 speed...
 
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Kevin Elmore
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So we just finished this tonight. It went really easy for the heroes, but like many of the haunts, the randomness of the game was against one side. In this case, it was against the traitor.

When we revealed the haunt, we had most of the tiles out on the board already. That meant that the traitor had to put 10 cats out spread out across three runes. One of those runes was right next to the salon. He put 4 dolls in there since he was unaware of the danger of being so near the cat.

And so the first player put a silence spell in that room. Then the second player talked the cat into going into that room. The cat shredded only one doll at the nest. Then the third player went into the salon and talked the cat into going back into that silent room. So the heroes were already 40% on the way to a win before the traitor got to act. Obviously things would've gone differently if the a rune room wasn't right next to the salon.

The dolls that were outside were able to gang up on poor player four and tear him to shreds.

The one thing I couldn't figure out was how to prevent a stalemate because we were getting kind of close. We had four silence spells in place. All the remaining dolls were in the entryway, and we were having trouble invoking another silence spell at -4. One of the players did manage to finally roll a 6 with 4 dice, but I was seriously considering calling for everyone to retreat to a room with a silence spell. But if we had done that, then couldn't the dolls have just stayed away? And if the heroes aren't willing to try to put up another silence spell and the dolls aren't willing to head into certain doom, then what was in place to keep that from happening?

It was a neat haunt. It was the first one the heroes won, but a lot of that really had to do with placement and revealing so many rune rooms.

Oh, the traitor was uncertain about one thing, which may have been important. Since the silence spell was represented by rune tokens, could he have summoned more dolls into those rooms since they had runes? It wouldn't have helped him in this case, but I could see where that can get important.
 
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robin bruce
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Missouri
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The biggest thing that was a question was that it said you had to silence a room and the roll was effected by the number of runes in the house. The outside are does not have rooms nor is it inside the house. So you could not silence an outdoor tile (as it is not a room)meaning that dolls can only be destroyed inside.
 
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Kevin Elmore
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rexydon wrote:
The biggest thing that was a question was that it said you had to silence a room and the roll was effected by the number of runes in the house. The outside are does not have rooms nor is it inside the house. So you could not silence an outdoor tile (as it is not a room)meaning that dolls can only be destroyed inside.


I believe I read a general statement that rooms = tiles, so this works in outdoor tiles too. Regret has been expressed in the unfortunate nomenclature of the tiles as rooms.
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Will F
United States
Albuquerque
New Mexico
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My suggested errata for this haunt (Doll Puppets):

Spoiler (click to reveal)
1) The dolls must always move with the intent to attack the heroes (this was stated by the game designer in a Reddit thread)

2) Silencing a room tile with a rune symbol on it prevents more dolls from being summoned on that tile (this was stated by the game designer in a Reddit thread)

3) Silencing the room with the musical note token does not prevent the traitor from performing the action to summon more dolls (the rules are not clear on this, but we assumed it since otherwise this is way easier for the heroes than killing the traitor or silencing each runed tile)--the traitor sings and nothing comes out, but the song is picked up by the house regardless


4) Monsters that act in a group cannot "split" their attacks against heroes in the same room (e.g. 4 attack one hero and 6 attack the other)--I don't like this one, but we needed to rule on this as a clarification on the existing rules, and it seemed like the clarification with the least possible deviation from the existing rules (monsters move all together and then attack all together)

Note: the thread I reference above is at https://www.reddit.com/r/boardgames/comments/a06rro/betrayal...
 
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Ivan Esteban-Garcia
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Just finished this chapter on Sunday.
For us it ended up being fairly even (the Traitor forgot she could shoo the cat away, and we didn't know about not being able to summon dolls into silenced rooms).
It ended up as a 1 on 1 battle of attrition as the final hero left standing was the War Veteran.
 
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Robert Rodger
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We played this last night and it was a nail-biter of a game for us. Technically, I think the traitor should have won immediately because an event moved a player off the Salon before the Cat would have been revealed, thus, I guess, never getting us the cat?

But either way the heroes did not coordinate well, a lot of them went down. We had what we thought was a great final plan but rolled a 1 for the cat when we just needed to get rid of two dolls more. And then my investigator died in an attempt to take out the traitor by again missing a die roll by one.

I think if we had listened to one player who told us to retreat to a silenced room and make the dolls come to us we'd have done better. We also should have silenced the salon for that matter.

Still, I have way more fun in these haunts than in the original game.
 
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