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Subject: Don't Stop Believing - a review of TitE rss

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Unai Martinez
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I guess I will need to choose if I get first this or The Dark Valley, of course there is no doubt I will eventually get both. I am not that kind of person who just wants to have 1 game covering each front... shake

Which one should get the honor of getting the best shelf spot?
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DAVID BROWN
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CHINO
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The war between Germany and Russia, '41-'45, covered as a strategic/operational-level campaign game with scenarios is my favorite topic for a game. TDV is another innovative wonder by Ted Raicer. The chit-draw system creates an unusual amount of FOW and excitement (though potential frustration at times). The logistics are very interesting. I find this game to be a little more complex than I like--not the rules, but the tactical play. I may not be bright enough (I mean this) to enjoy the intricacies of this game the same way I do TITE. TITE rewards deeply thoughtful play, but I feel less confused while I'm doing it. TITE has enjoyable, basic mechanics, and also an excellent logistical system. Luck seldom gets out-of-hand with TITE.

It is interesting that these two games take up about the same space, and, in effect, are on the same time scale. Many more pieces in TDV. My advice: get both games, but play TITE first.

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Terry Lewis
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"But first, the children ought to be fed." -- Virginia Held (1980) from "Property, Profits, and Economic Justice"
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Nicely done, David!
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Terry Lewis
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"But first, the children ought to be fed." -- Virginia Held (1980) from "Property, Profits, and Economic Justice"
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Dave Brown wrote:
The war between Germany and Russia, '41-'45, covered as a strategic/operational-level campaign game with scenarios is my favorite topic for a game. TDV is another innovative wonder by Ted Raicer. The chit-draw system creates an unusual amount of FOW and excitement (though potential frustration at times). The logistics are very interesting. I find this game to be a little more complex than I like--not the rules, but the tactical play. I may not be bright enough (I mean this) to enjoy the intricacies of this game the same way I do TITE. TITE rewards deeply thoughtful play, but I feel less confused while I'm doing it. TITE has enjoyable, basic mechanics, and also an excellent logistical system. Luck seldom gets out-of-hand with TITE.

It is interesting that these two games take up about the same space, and, in effect, are on the same time scale. Many more pieces in TDV. My advice: get both games, but play TITE first.

A follow up, David.

First, here is a link to a review of "The Dark Valley" by a BGG buddy of mine (Smitty) -- https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1815937/dark-valley-truly-v...

Second, what edition of TDV do you have: 2013 or 2019?

Third, I am intrigued by your description of TDV and its tactical challenges.

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DAVID BROWN
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Terry,

I agree with a lot of Smitty's impressions re TDV. I got into the earlier edition last year. I have been deeply emersed in TITE since Nov. I will continue to support it with various activities, but I have unfinished business with TDV.

I never liked chits until this game. In the early turns of '41, Axis units have the potential of being activated multiple times per turn, which is a month's time. Each month all Axis units will move with one chit, will all have opportunity for Combat with another, and there are a number of chits that activate any units within range of a named HQ (all four HQs have a chit in July, but ever less throughout '41). These HQs, when their chit is drawn, can activate movement first, with only mechanized units allowed to attack afterward, OR all units in range can attack and then all move. The HQ moves to places where it will provide supply where most needed at a random time when the logistics chit is drawn, but also where units need to be activated. Units can be activated by several different HQs in one turn if they just happen to be in range at the right time. These tactical considerations are multidimensional puzzles, involving the juggling of intuitively perceived probabilities and priorities. One wants to take time to ponder. Every play of a scenario, especially Barbarossa is radically different from every other due to the chits. If one is too invested in one side's prospects, even in solitaire, there can be a little frustration, but not for you Terry, I suspect.

The Barbarossa, Case Blue and Bagration scenarios of TDV work quite well for me, once I have made my usual modifications. I haven't gotten to a full campaign game yet.



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Terry Lewis
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David, thanks for the reply.

I now have TDV on the way to add to my East Front WWII collection -- TitE is still on my wish list, maybe later this year or early next year. With 36 sims already in my East Front WWII collection [and 2 more on pre-order] I have not felt the push to add more until TiTE and TDV, thanks primarily to your posts over the past several months. I have been completing my GDW Europa Series lately, since I had bypassed a couple when they first came out in the 1970s and 1980s. And . . . there are a few high priority WWII west front sims that are high on my wish list right now, and so it goes!

Be that as it may, will likely want to do some more follow up directly with you later on about both TitE and TDV. Will take it out of this thread. Keep up the good posting!!

Cheers!

Post Script: I have Ted Raicer's Clash series -- I really like the way chit pull activation creates uncertainty and a bit of "fog"!! Applicable as a retrofit to many sims, in my humble opinion.
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