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Vindication» Forums » General

Subject: whoops.... "Vindication" does not mean what this game thinks it means... rss

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If you're vindicated, it means you are now proven to have been right all along.

The game should have been called "Redemption".

But I can't wait to play it!!
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Brett Petersen
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I have always looked at it as you are vindicated (Justified) in your new choices. Meaning that your new choices bring you to the goal you seek despite the naysayers who think that you can never change. But yeah redemption would have been a better choice requiring no stretch to make it fit. I will say Vindication is better than the first name Epoch: The Awakening which I guess could be spun to mean the time of your "awakening".
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Greg Durrett
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There's an interesting discussion about the definition here: https://boardgamegeek.com/video/197566/vindication/rahdo-run....
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Mikkel Øberg
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As noted in the discussion from the post above, the OP is half right and half wrong: one Oxford definition of Vindication is thus:

The action of clearing someone of blame or suspicion.
 
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Terminus_Est wrote:
There's an interesting discussion about the definition here: https://boardgamegeek.com/video/197566/vindication/rahdo-run....
Yeah, that thread doesn't make much sense. The term is appropriate because somebody in the 17th century once used it to mean "liberate"? Nah.

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Gregaria wrote:
As noted in the discussion from the post above, the OP is half right and half wrong: one Oxford definition of Vindication is thus:

The action of clearing someone of blame or suspicion.


You're referring to the Oxford English Dictionary, which is the best authority simply because it has the most complete compendium of current and historical usages.

The OED's primary, non-obsolete definition is this:

"The action of vindicating or defending against censure, calumny, etc.; justification by proof or explanation."

Note that the semicolon there does not mean "or".

The OED's historical examples make clear that "vindication" on behalf of somebody is distinct from merely championing somebody no matter what they did in the past. A vindication offers proof or argument that there should never have been calumny in the first place. That's the peculiar purpose of the term.

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Wretched Git wrote:
Terminus_Est wrote:
There's an interesting discussion about the definition here: https://boardgamegeek.com/video/197566/vindication/rahdo-run....
Yeah, that thread doesn't make much sense. The term is appropriate because somebody in the 17th century once used it to mean "liberate"? Nah.

Just check the dictionary definition, and it's not hard to imagine how the term can be used appropriately for the theme of the game:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/vindicate

I hear you on common use, but that's not the only use for the term.
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MentatYP wrote:
Wretched Git wrote:
Terminus_Est wrote:
There's an interesting discussion about the definition here: https://boardgamegeek.com/video/197566/vindication/rahdo-run....
Yeah, that thread doesn't make much sense. The term is appropriate because somebody in the 17th century once used it to mean "liberate"? Nah.

Just check the dictionary definition, and it's not hard to imagine how the term can be used appropriately for the theme of the game:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/vindicate

I hear you on common use, but that's not the only use for the term.
If you're going to cite dictionaries, you need to consult the OED, which is the only "real" printed authority, because it bases its definitions exclusively on the evidence of historical usage. (All other dictionaries are fuzzy, truncated copies of the OED)

See my post (above yours) about this. We just can't escape the fact that the whole point of "vindication," as opposed to other, similar terms, is that it implies the vindicated person had always been in the right.
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Greg Durrett
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I see that there's already a game called Redemption listed here on the 'Geek. Maybe we could lobby them to change the name to Exoneration
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Brett Petersen
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Here is the history of the word

https://www.etymonline.com/word/vindication#etymonline_v_779...
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thatach wrote:

I viewed this as being Vindicated in your choice to become a hero and make up for your past misdeeds.
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Hengst2404 wrote:
thatach wrote:

I viewed this as being Vindicated in your choice to become a hero and make up for your past misdeeds.
No, the revenge element in the obsolete usages only emphasizes the term's peculiar, non-obsolete meaning: that the individual in question was always the real victim and was never in the wrong.
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Wretched Git wrote:
Terminus_Est wrote:
There's an interesting discussion about the definition here: https://boardgamegeek.com/video/197566/vindication/rahdo-run....
Yeah, that thread doesn't make much sense. The term is appropriate because somebody in the 17th century once used it to mean "liberate"? Nah.

I quoted Oxford, and it's not a single use or example, but a definition. But please, continue your ride on your high horse My Arrogant Lord.
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Gregaria wrote:
Wretched Git wrote:
Terminus_Est wrote:
There's an interesting discussion about the definition here: https://boardgamegeek.com/video/197566/vindication/rahdo-run....
Yeah, that thread doesn't make much sense. The term is appropriate because somebody in the 17th century once used it to mean "liberate"? Nah.

I quoted Oxford, and it's not a single use or example, but a definition. But please, continue your ride on your high horse My Arrogant Lord.
? You're mixing up the response sequence there -- I don't know why you're getting angry. I wasn't trying to be arrogant, I was just correcting your incorrect paraphrase of the OED definition with the correct transcription of it. (You've left all of that out of the thread you've quoted above.)

 
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Robert
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Maybe the game should have been called misunderstood...
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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Yeah, it should be called Redemption.

Vindication is about proving that someone was right, when others were thinking that someone wasn't right. For instance, as it happened with famous "Monty Hall" problem and Marilyn vos Savant. Many mathematicians thought she was utterly wrong in her solution, but the experiment proved that she was right. She was, thus, vindicated.

That is not what is happening in this game. In this game, you *are* a bad guy and everyone knows you are a bad guy. You work towards changing yourself to be good, not changing opinion of others (so they think you're good, even if you aren't). And that's a redemption story.
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Brian L
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I think it's an Awakening. ;P
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Fair points, all.

FWIW, I looked at this as your future actions vindicated the belief that good was in you all along (i.e., although your past deeds obscured it, you really were a worthy human being deep down inside).
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For additional context, I ended up looking at the https://www.oxforddictionaries.com/ site (which is sponsored by the folks behind OED) and found this:

"The OED and the English dictionaries in oxforddictionaries.com are very different.

Oxforddictionaries.com focuses on current language and practical usage, while the OED shows how words and meanings have changed over time.

In oxforddictionaries.com, where words have more than one meaning the most important and common meanings are given first, with less common and more specialist or technical uses coming later in the entry. In the OED, on the other hand, meanings are ordered chronologically, starting with their first recorded use. The OED is a record of all the core words and meanings in the English language dating from over 1,000 years ago or more to the present day, including many obsolete and historical terms.

Both the OED and oxforddictionaries.com show how words are used in context. In the OED, each sense of a word is illustrated by quotations, sometimes spanning many centuries, from the earliest recorded appearance onwards. In oxforddictionaries.com, the English language evidence is illustrated by real-world sentences derived — from the 10 billion-word Oxford English Corpus, a huge databank of 20th and 21st century English — to show how English is used today.

The OED is the definitive resource for understanding how the English language has developed over time, or for digging deeper into its origins or variations around the world. Oxforddictionaries.com offers practical help and advice on writing and speaking, not just in English but also multiple other languages."
(emphasis mine)

The oxforddictionaries.com definition of vindication reads thusly:

1. The action of clearing someone of blame or suspicion.
‘I intend to work to ensure my full vindication’
‘today's news is a complete vindication for us’

1.1 Proof that someone or something is right, reasonable, or justified.
‘the results were interpreted as vindication of the company's policy’
‘democratic vindications of freedom of choice as a basic principle’



Therefore, if we are going to consider how the word is used in current language, is it possible that perhaps "vindication" may not be so terribly off the mark?
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Jay M
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SSquire1 wrote:

Therefore, if we are going to consider how the word is used in current language, is it possible that perhaps "vindication" may not be so terribly off the mark?

It's off the mark. "Vindication" clearly connotes clearing blame that was undeserved, to show that, all along, the negative impression was not well-founded.

Whereas this game explicitly involves a scoundrel becoming a hero -- it's redemption.

Eh. They must have thought Vindication sounded cool.
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I see your point.

I guess I had assumed that the whole "regain your lost honor" theme was for a good character that had lost his way into being a scoundrel (hence, trying to regain an honorable life). If the character has been a pure scoundrel all along (i.e. never honorable), then I would agree that vindication would not apply.

Oh, well--still looking forward to hitting the Solo mode goal...
 
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Jay M
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It's a cool name for what looks like a good game (I backed this round).

It reminds me of a comic book character -- Vindicator. He was the leader of Alpha Flight, a Canadian superhero team that first appeared in the X-Men back in the 70's. After they got their own book, the creator changed the name to "Guardian." He said something like "What is he really trying to vindicate?"
 
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Trogdor The Burninator
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Perhaps Orange Nebula should re-name the game to: "Inconceivable"
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Adam Kazimierczak
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You’re vindicated because it turns out that everyone in your old crew was more of a bastard than you but you got outvoted. It just takes a while journeying around some hexagonal terrain amassing Facebook followers and domesticating endangered creatures to figure that out.
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Jay M
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CrackTheSky wrote:
Perhaps Orange Nebula should re-name the game to: "Inconceivable"

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