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Subject: Runaway Leader? rss

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John Mavis
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I don’t think the idea that it’s not a catch up mechanic because the leader can do it too holds much weight because many of these things are not optimal unless you are behind. If you are able to get a high reputation and diverse species the facilities you buy will reflect that. If you stop mid game and just start pumping out mutants eventually a player will catch you in reputation and then the extra hotels you built will be less useful.

It comes down to what option is optimal for your current state in the game. A number of facilities and manipulation cards are actually more attuned to helping a person in last than a person in first. News Room is good in general but BEST with mutants. Holo dome is worth it just for the VP but also catches you up in reputation. Tour Bus is ONLY useful if you are in last place on reputation. Mutant Exhibition is more mutant synergy and is also worth it for the VP alone. Food court and Fine Diner; put them together and build a bunch of hotels that don’t even need to be filled. Statues are the equivalent of a brontosaurus for a round.

A player in first might have access to the facilities first but chances are they won’t go for them because they (Fine Diner aside) don't have synergy as well with a fully developed park. All the while a person who goes for these facilities will slowly eat away at the leaders lead. Also note that most of the facilities I listed are also really cheap, so clearly they were intended to help a player who isn't bringing in as many visitors or money.

I really like the fact that the game doesn't automatically rubber-band players in last to catch a point leader. At the same time I also believe that a player even in last place can catch a point leader at almost any time in the game if they play well. We've had a few games where one person had a solid 15 point lead over last place only to have the last place player catch them during final scoring.
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Désirée Greverud
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JohnMavis wrote:
I don’t think the idea that it’s not a catch up mechanic because the leader can do it too holds much weight because many of these things are not optimal unless you are behind. If you are able to get a high reputation and diverse species the facilities you buy will reflect that. If you stop mid game and just start pumping out mutants eventually a player will catch you in reputation and then the extra hotels you built will be less useful.

It comes down to what option is optimal for your current state in the game. A number of facilities and manipulation cards are actually more attuned to helping a person in last than a person in first. News Room is good in general but BEST with mutants. Holo dome is worth it just for the VP but also catches you up in reputation. Tour Bus is ONLY useful if you are in last place on reputation. Mutant Exhibition is more mutant synergy and is also worth it for the VP alone. Food court and Fine Diner; put them together and build a bunch of hotels that don’t even need to be filled. Statues are the equivalent of a brontosaurus for a round.

A player in first might have access to the facilities first but chances are they won’t go for them because they (Fine Diner aside) don't have synergy as well with a fully developed park. All the while a person who goes for these facilities will slowly eat away at the leaders lead. Also note that most of the facilities I listed are also really cheap, so clearly they were intended to help a player who isn't bringing in as many visitors or money.

I really like the fact that the game doesn't automatically rubber-band players in last to catch a point leader. At the same time I also believe that a player even in last place can catch a point leader at almost any time in the game if they play well. We've had a few games where one person had a solid 15 point lead over last place only to have the last place player catch them during final scoring.
you're assuming those buildings will show up. in a 2 player game, it's quite possibly that those will never appear. We had a 2 player game where the first biodome didn't appear until the last round.

Again, you are still talking about strategy. The player in last has to know these things and play smarter than the player in first. If the person could play smarter, wouldn't they already be in first?
 
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Ess Why
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Looks like in the Dice Tower playthrough, Sam falls behind and remains behind. Tom is ahead of Zee for most of the game, but basically neck and neck and Zee wins on the last turn.

I am more concerned with the fact that Sam is not able to make any progress on the leaders
 
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John Mavis
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DragonsDream wrote:


Again, you are still talking about strategy. The player in last has to know these things and play smarter than the player in first. If the person could play smarter, wouldn't they already be in first?

Shouldn’t a player who is smarter at a strategy game have a higher chance at winning? Balance is about making players of the same skill level have an equal chance of winning.

As for the tiles, 21 tiles are guaranteed to show up in a two player game with potentially more based on purchases and cards. There are 40 tiles total excluding basic hotels so at least half of all tiles will show up. I don’t know exact numbers but biodomes, holo domes and statues seem pretty common.
 
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Dustin Crenshaw
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Yes a higher skilled player should win, and I don't like freebie catch up mechanics. That ain't what is happening here.
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Dave Kudzma
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SeerMagic wrote:
Yes a higher skilled player should win, and I don't like freebie catch up mechanics. That ain't what is happening here.


This.

Too many games either plateau and want players to end the game while they lead to win, else they offer some alternative means to equal things out.
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Mike Pye
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I agree that a higher skilled player should win, but remember that this game is not something like Food Chain Magnate where there is basically no luck whatsoever. Last game one of my opponents played the 'research pact' card on the first round (draw DNA equal to number of players +2, and then distribute among players, taking a scandal for each player who does not receive one).

He handed me an Ankylosaurus card (which I already had 2 of), so I got that out in round 1. I also had another copy of the research pact card and got myself a Stegosaurus on round 2 as well. I finished about 60 points ahead of the player in last, and it wasn't really down to skill (and was actually a bit awkward taking so many points compared to other players). Of course this was an unlikely situation but it does show that there will be some luck involved.

I would be reluctant to add in catch up mechanisms that mess up other player's parks, but a possibility would be something like:

"At the start of each round, the player in last place can choose to take a scandal to use an extra worker that round" ('Forced labour' or something like that). It would give them a better chance of getting things they need to get going, whilst also still being a decision to make.
 
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Mike Pye
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Owen134866 wrote:
"At the start of each round, the player in last place can choose to take a scandal to use an extra worker that round" ('Forced labour' or something like that). It would give them a better chance of getting things they need to get going, whilst also still being a decision to make.


Actually a friend of mine has made what I think could be a better suggestion. "Whoever is behind on points can place an extra worker that round for free"

"Staff, we are falling behind our rivals, I need you all on unpaid overtime!"



 
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Damien M
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I recently picked this game up and have only played it twice now, but both games had no change in score placement. After round 2, the score markers just followed each other around the track with slight fluctuations in gaps, but nothing significant.

lordnine wrote:
Also, don’t be afraid to build a dinosaur that isn’t safe in your park. The best example of this is a pterodactyl. One of the biggest mistakes new players make is to only build this if they have a biodome. Building a free range pterodactyl will result in rampages but that is OK! At worst you lose a visitor and maybe flip a facility. A pterodactyl is worth 5 VP every round; a scandal is worth -6 VP and you might be able to discard it entirely. That is only a net loss of 1 point. The pterodactyl is also worth a whopping 4 reputation which means that will easily catch you up to an opponent.


The Pterodactyl on turn 1 is probably my biggest disappointment of this game. There are only 4 available tiles in the game for them and in the 2 games we only saw 1 of them (even with using at least 1 Strongarm the Market card in both games).

And I'd disagree with the "At worst" scenario. On turn 2 if you can't afford (or don't plan ahead) to get a facility, your worst outcome (and highly likely 5/6 outcome) is destroying your visitor center (1 scandal) and killing everyone in it (2 scandals). This repeats every turn until you can get the biome or a facility that he can break every turn (which costs $3 to fix every turn).

Having free range dinos does not seem worth the risk or cost.
 
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John Mavis
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Entice wrote:


And I'd disagree with the "At worst" scenario. On turn 2 if you can't afford (or don't plan ahead) to get a facility, your worst outcome (and highly likely 5/6 outcome) is destroying your visitor center (1 scandal) and killing everyone in it (2 scandals). This repeats every turn until you can get the biome or a facility that he can break every turn (which costs $3 to fix every turn).

Having free range dinos does not seem worth the risk or cost.

Can only talk about games with my friends but an early Pterodactyl has always given players a leg up in the early game in my group. It is hard to beat 4 reputation in the early game so being first player order is almost a sure thing for at-least the first couple rounds. The important thing is to keep rebuilding the fence each time the Pterodactyl breaks free. You may still lose a visitor but as long as the fence is in place your facilities are safe.
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lan lan
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One question

What about playing with DRAFT at the beginning of the game. Meaning take 1 card pass the rest of the deck etc.

To further on prevent someone getting lucky with his hand?

Any thoughts?
 
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Désirée Greverud
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BlueOne8 wrote:
One question

What about playing with DRAFT at the beginning of the game. Meaning take 1 card pass the rest of the deck etc.

To further on prevent someone getting lucky with his hand?

Any thoughts?
unless you memorize what cards get passed on, how would it help? either you hate draft and hope it works or you attempt to get your own best starting hand
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