Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
60 Posts
Prev «  1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 

Abstract Games» Forums » General

Subject: Solitaire abstract games rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Christian K
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
How do "seperate these two metal pieces" puzzles fit in this discussion? They feel very abstract (no randomness full information) but they are continous.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Muemmelmann wrote:
How do "seperate these two metal pieces" puzzles fit in this discussion? They feel very abstract (no randomness full information) but they are continous.
Does a combinatorial game need to be discrete, or can it be continuous? Let a new definitional debate begin!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rio Malaschitz
Slovakia
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
http://www.morpionsolitaire.com/
http://joinfive.com/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Join_Five

Simple solitaire with square paper and pen.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Van Biesbrouck
Canada
St Catharines
Ontario
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I created a solo version of Santorini; last I heard it was unclear if it was going to be published in the Deluxe Edition. Your opponent has a strong power but follows an algorithm to play. Randomness was only used to pick between moves the algorithm found equally good.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Raymond Gallardo
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
My favourite solitaire abstract, combinatorial games are "open" solitaire/patience games like Freecell, Nationale, and Mrs Mop.

As for other combinatoral abstracts, there's MeM, but I haven't played it yet.

(Actually, I rarely play games solo, or even video games.)

As for the discussion of what's the difference between a solo game and a puzzle: In a solo game, you can lose and must restart because it's too cumbersome to undo a particular move (but I supposed if you play Freecell on the computer, there is often an undo feature, but I consider that cheating!) I consider Rubik's Cube a puzzle, not a game. You don't "lose" when solving a puzzle. (You just feel like one when you can't solve it!)

Now, Solitaire for me straddles the line between solo game and puzzle because it's much easier to undo a move than card solitaire/patience, but not as easy to undo a move like in Rush Hour or many of the other puzzles from ThinkFun.

So for me, a solo game feels like playing a traditional game. I'm making a finite sequence of moves that eventually ends with me winning or losing. A puzzle allows me to make an infinite sequence of moves; the goal is to find that one sequence that achieves the objective. Or, in more practical terms, in a solo game, undoing my moves is a form of cheating, while in a puzzle, there's no concept of undoing a move; the point is you're trying and trying again until you reach your objective.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
mlvanbie wrote:
I created a solo version of Santorini; last I heard it was unclear if it was going to be published in the Deluxe Edition. Your opponent has a strong power but follows an algorithm to play. Randomness was only used to pick between moves the algorithm found equally good.
Oooh, a manual AI opponent for a 2-player pure combinatorial game sounds interesting and is indeed another way to get a solitaire abstract game. Various euros and wargames have solitaire AI/bot opponents, but it seems much rarer in combinatorial abstracts.

(In their manual boardgame versions, I mean; of course there are computer AIs for many combinatorial abstracts.)


BTW I remembered another "normal" boardgame with a solitaire variant, the purely combinatorial yet somewhat richly themed Luna. I have played that one, and even wrote a session report!
Detailed solitaire playthrough (hard level) with photos and strategy thoughts
In Luna, there is no randomness during play, so replayability for the solitaire variant comes from random/variable setup conditions.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven Meyers
msg tools
bxrrr wrote:
Hello all,

Do solitaire abstract games exist?

Are they similar to multiplayer abstract games in that one could (potentially) spend a lifetime mastering the game? Can this be done without (ever more skillful) opponents?

What are your favorite solo abstracts?

Thanks in advance,
Alex

Please consider trying out my solitaire game BoxOff (not "Box Off"). In its pure form it is a real board game played with real pieces, but an Android app exists to play it, as well as a separate iOS app. Both are free to download.

It's an open question whether or not BoxOff is deep enough to retain someone's interest over a lifetime. That being said, I've been playing it frequently since I invented it in January 2013, and I haven't tired of it yet.

Steve

2 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Bokser
Israel
Pardes Hanna
flag msg tools
designer
Guess What?
badge
You Rock.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
swshogimeyers wrote:
bxrrr wrote:
Hello all,

Do solitaire abstract games exist?

Are they similar to multiplayer abstract games in that one could (potentially) spend a lifetime mastering the game? Can this be done without (ever more skillful) opponents?

What are your favorite solo abstracts?

Thanks in advance,
Alex

Please consider trying out my solitaire game BoxOff (not "Box Off"). In its pure form it is a real board game played with real pieces, but an Android app exists to play it, as well as a separate iOS app. Both are free to download.

It's an open question whether or not BoxOff is deep enough to retain someone's interest over a lifetime. That being said, I've been playing it frequently since I invented it in January 2013, and I haven't tired of it yet.

Steve


Will try it out, Steve.
Thanks!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Kreutzer
United States
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In designing a solitaire abstract game, I had to make manageable three main elements: uncertainty about the effectiveness of both sides' moves; making it a placement/area game instead of a moving pieces game; and including randomization to counter any system predictability and hamper the human player's ability to predict moves and outcomes.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Bokser
Israel
Pardes Hanna
flag msg tools
designer
Guess What?
badge
You Rock.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ftstevens wrote:
In designing a solitaire abstract game, I had to make manageable three main elements: uncertainty about the effectiveness of both sides' moves; making it a placement/area game instead of a moving pieces game; and including randomization to counter any system predictability and hamper the human player's ability to predict moves and outcomes.
..and your end result is? Link to your game, please? Would love to check it out.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven Meyers
msg tools
bxrrr wrote:
swshogimeyers wrote:
bxrrr wrote:
Hello all,

Do solitaire abstract games exist?

Are they similar to multiplayer abstract games in that one could (potentially) spend a lifetime mastering the game? Can this be done without (ever more skillful) opponents?

What are your favorite solo abstracts?

Thanks in advance,
Alex

Please consider trying out my solitaire game BoxOff (not "Box Off"). In its pure form it is a real board game played with real pieces, but an Android app exists to play it, as well as a separate iOS app. Both are free to download.

It's an open question whether or not BoxOff is deep enough to retain someone's interest over a lifetime. That being said, I've been playing it frequently since I invented it in January 2013, and I haven't tired of it yet.

Steve


Will try it out, Steve.
Thanks!

Have you had a chance to try it yet? If so, I'd be interested in your feedback.

Steve
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Bokser
Israel
Pardes Hanna
flag msg tools
designer
Guess What?
badge
You Rock.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
swshogimeyers wrote:
bxrrr wrote:
swshogimeyers wrote:
bxrrr wrote:
Hello all,

Do solitaire abstract games exist?

Are they similar to multiplayer abstract games in that one could (potentially) spend a lifetime mastering the game? Can this be done without (ever more skillful) opponents?

What are your favorite solo abstracts?

Thanks in advance,
Alex

Please consider trying out my solitaire game BoxOff (not "Box Off"). In its pure form it is a real board game played with real pieces, but an Android app exists to play it, as well as a separate iOS app. Both are free to download.

It's an open question whether or not BoxOff is deep enough to retain someone's interest over a lifetime. That being said, I've been playing it frequently since I invented it in January 2013, and I haven't tired of it yet.

Steve


Will try it out, Steve.
Thanks!

Have you had a chance to try it yet? If so, I'd be interested in your feedback.

Steve

I have. It's early days yet, Steve, but it looks very promising.
Let me play it for a few weeks. I'll then send you a GM with some feedback.
Thank once again for introducing me to your game!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven Meyers
msg tools
bxrrr wrote:
swshogimeyers wrote:
bxrrr wrote:
swshogimeyers wrote:
bxrrr wrote:
Hello all,

Do solitaire abstract games exist?

Are they similar to multiplayer abstract games in that one could (potentially) spend a lifetime mastering the game? Can this be done without (ever more skillful) opponents?

What are your favorite solo abstracts?

Thanks in advance,
Alex

Please consider trying out my solitaire game BoxOff (not "Box Off"). In its pure form it is a real board game played with real pieces, but an Android app exists to play it, as well as a separate iOS app. Both are free to download.

It's an open question whether or not BoxOff is deep enough to retain someone's interest over a lifetime. That being said, I've been playing it frequently since I invented it in January 2013, and I haven't tired of it yet.

Steve


Will try it out, Steve.
Thanks!

Have you had a chance to try it yet? If so, I'd be interested in your feedback.

Steve

I have. It's early days yet, Steve, but it looks very promising.
Let me play it for a few weeks. I'll then send you a GM with some feedback.
Thank once again for introducing me to your game!

Thanks, I appreciate it! Feedback from anyone else who'd like to try it is also welcome.

Steve
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Rodriguez
United States
Rochester
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
swshogimeyers wrote:
bxrrr wrote:
Hello all,

Do solitaire abstract games exist?

Are they similar to multiplayer abstract games in that one could (potentially) spend a lifetime mastering the game? Can this be done without (ever more skillful) opponents?

What are your favorite solo abstracts?

Thanks in advance,
Alex

Please consider trying out my solitaire game BoxOff (not "Box Off"). In its pure form it is a real board game played with real pieces, but an Android app exists to play it, as well as a separate iOS app. Both are free to download.

It's an open question whether or not BoxOff is deep enough to retain someone's interest over a lifetime. That being said, I've been playing it frequently since I invented it in January 2013, and I haven't tired of it yet.

Steve


I installed the app and have been playing. Not quite ready for feedback yet. Do you have a bgg entry for it? If you don't you should submit it to the database.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven Meyers
msg tools
danrodz wrote:
swshogimeyers wrote:
bxrrr wrote:
Hello all,

Do solitaire abstract games exist?

Are they similar to multiplayer abstract games in that one could (potentially) spend a lifetime mastering the game? Can this be done without (ever more skillful) opponents?

What are your favorite solo abstracts?

Thanks in advance,
Alex

Please consider trying out my solitaire game BoxOff (not "Box Off"). In its pure form it is a real board game played with real pieces, but an Android app exists to play it, as well as a separate iOS app. Both are free to download.

It's an open question whether or not BoxOff is deep enough to retain someone's interest over a lifetime. That being said, I've been playing it frequently since I invented it in January 2013, and I haven't tired of it yet.

Steve


I installed the app and have been playing. Not quite ready for feedback yet. Do you have a bgg entry for it? If you don't you should submit it to the database.

Thanks for trying out BoxOff. I haven't got around yet to making a bgg entry for it.

Are you playing the iOS app or the Android app? The two apps are very different.

Steve


1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Rodriguez
United States
Rochester
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm using the android version.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Bokser
Israel
Pardes Hanna
flag msg tools
designer
Guess What?
badge
You Rock.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
danrodz wrote:
I'm using the android version.
Same here.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
campaign boardgame
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
russ wrote:

(E.g. we all know about the well-known card solitaire game popularized by the Windows app...)

".


If you dig into card games you'll find a ton of zero-hidden solitaire card games. I picked up the penguin book of solitaire and find it has an incredibly enjoyable variety. I personally like the more luck driven ones, but there are some with a setup involving all 52 cards laid out. Including the version known as penguin... Which I find far too challenging.

Osmosis is my current favorite.

Campaignboardgame.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Piovezan
Brazil
Jundiaí
SP
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
I just realized that an entry for BoxOff is likely to be rejected. As much as you guys try to define solitaire abstracts as something else, they're still technically puzzles.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven Meyers
msg tools
BozoDel wrote:
I just realized that an entry for BoxOff is likely to be rejected. As much as you guys try to define solitaire abstracts as something else, they're still technically puzzles.

Thanks for the tip. Do you know if bgg has solitaire games of any kind, e.g. card games?

Steve
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Kenlon
United States
Florida
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Sagrada is an excellent solo-able abstract
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Piovezan
Brazil
Jundiaí
SP
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
swshogimeyers wrote:
BozoDel wrote:
I just realized that an entry for BoxOff is likely to be rejected. As much as you guys try to define solitaire abstracts as something else, they're still technically puzzles.

Thanks for the tip. Do you know if bgg has solitaire games of any kind, e.g. card games?

Steve
Yes, yes it does. If it's not perfect information, it's allowed. Here are the guidelines.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Bokser
Israel
Pardes Hanna
flag msg tools
designer
Guess What?
badge
You Rock.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
BozoDel wrote:
I just realized that an entry for BoxOff is likely to be rejected. As much as you guys try to define solitaire abstracts as something else, they're still technically puzzles.
This may not be as clear-cut as it initially appears to be.
What if losing conditions were introduced to a puzzle such as "BoxOff"?
This is quite easily achieved: finish the puzzle in x moves or lose, finish the puzzle with x undos/restarts or lose, finish the puzzle in x minutes or lose, etc.
Would it then be considered a game?
(I'm not saying that it necessarily would. I'm raising the question.)

Edit: I'm not interested in whether the game would be eligible for inclusion in the BGG database; I'm interested in whether or not it could be classified as a game. Perhaps not a board game, but a game nonetheless.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
bxrrr wrote:
Would it then be considered a game?
(I'm not saying that it necessarily would. I'm raising the question.)

Edit: I'm not interested in whether the game would be eligible for inclusion in the BGG database; I'm interested in whether or not it could be classified as a game. Perhaps not a board game, but a game nonetheless.
If you don't mean a "game" according the BGG-specific definition, I think that you nonetheless would need to define what definition of "game" you mean to be able to answer that.

Otherwise the answer seems trivially "yes" because "game" in a fuzzy general / colloquial sense can cover all kinds of leisure/fun activities, including those without any rules or goals, e.g. the game of playing "peek-a-boo" with a baby and a blanket.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Bokser
Israel
Pardes Hanna
flag msg tools
designer
Guess What?
badge
You Rock.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
russ wrote:
bxrrr wrote:
Would it then be considered a game?
(I'm not saying that it necessarily would. I'm raising the question.)

Edit: I'm not interested in whether the game would be eligible for inclusion in the BGG database; I'm interested in whether or not it could be classified as a game. Perhaps not a board game, but a game nonetheless.
If you don't mean a "game" according the BGG-specific definition, I think that you nonetheless would need to define what definition of "game" you mean to be able to answer that.

Otherwise the answer seems trivially "yes" because "game" in a fuzzy general / colloquial sense can cover all kinds of leisure/fun activities, including those without any rules or goals, e.g. the game of playing "peek-a-boo" with a baby and a blanket.

Here's the BGG definition of games:

In the abstract, a game is something where a single person or a group competes or cooperates toward a goal whereby one or more players win or one or more players lose. This also includes solo games where a player must make choices based on hidden information (not mere puzzles) and solo dexterity games with a failure and/or score and/or timed-play component.

What I am suggesting is the addition of losing (and also winning) conditions.
I am asking whether, by adding this element, whilst still retaining the 'zero hidden information' element, puzzles such as "BoxOff" become games.
They wouldn't, according to BGG.
But would you - Russ, and the other posters here - consider them to be games (in more than the general/colloquial sense)?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Prev «  1 , 2 , 3  Next »   |