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Subject: Extra Player Mats rss

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Dan Michalowski
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Azor Ahai and I have been developing these for a while over at the TTS Scythe discord, and we just put the finishing touches on them, so I figured I would share them here. I've had a lot of fun playing with these mats, so I hope you will too!


Diplomatic 2.0


I threw this together as a tribute to the Diplomatic mat Jamey made that didn't make the cut of the original game. It's a bit unusual and more just for fun, but I think it actually works pretty well. I really love playing with this mat because of how different it feels. Tip: Upgrading and building is really easy from the start of the game.

Here's the original Diplomatic mat:



Revolutionary


This one has quite a bit of testing on it (I think close to like 40 plays?) so I think it's pretty well balanced. It's a bit tricky though, especially for factions that don't start with access to oil. It's a nice new challenge for experienced players who want to spice things up.


Technological

Azor put this one together, and it's very fun to play. It's not very tricky and has some really fun/unique strengths. I would gladly give this to a player who is brand new to Scythe.


EDIT:
Eyyyy another mat

Pioneering

Only tested this one a little bit, but so far I really like what I've seen. There seems to be quite a lot of diversity to the strategies that work, and it seems to be at a pretty good power level. I thought that a mat that rewards move/upgrade produce/deploy and trade/build would be pretty unique to the game. Enjoy!

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Felipe Rocha
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They look amazing! Congratulations! cool
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Peter Müller
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While this is truly impressive, I just wonder:

Among the 24 possible combinations of top and bottom action, with 7 of them being already "covered", you make 3 new ones, but you choose to let have two of them the same combination. Why?

Why not all 3 unique? What about for examle
Trade:Upgrade , Moveeploy , Produce:Build , Bolster:Enlist

 
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Claudia F
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Wow, thanks!
 
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Dan Michalowski
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arwaker wrote:
While this is truly impressive, I just wonder:

Among the 24 possible combinations of top and bottom action, with 7 of them being already "covered", you make 3 new ones, but you choose to let have two of them the same combination. Why?

Why not all 3 unique? What about for examle
Trade:Upgrade , Moveeploy , Produce:Build , Bolster:Enlist


With the 7 mats in the game, there's one combination of actions for each section that only exists once. Those combos are produce/upgrade, move/deploy, trade/build, and bolster/enlist. That's the reason for this particular action combo.

We messed around a bit trying to make yet another mat, but nothing really felt new or different enough. There's kind of a limit to the different play styles available. Using a different action combo will probably just end up playing a lot like a board that already exists. The reason Technological feels different is that it shares action combos with Agricultural and Militant, but has quite different cost or gold incentives than both of those boards. There's probably a novel combination of actions/cost/gold incentives left that would work, but I bet it would be pretty hard to find.

Also, the Diplomatic 2.0 mat is a recent development. After playing the Revolutionary mat a bunch, I realized it's play style wasn't really all that novel compared to some of the other mats. It basically feels like the illegitimate love child of Engineering and Militant. There are some neat starts you can do for some of the factions that don't focus on deploying early, but those strategies seem a bit limited. I started rethinking the design of the mat and came up with the Diplomatic 2.0 after messing around for a while. I honestly think its quite a lot more fun than the Revolutionary mat.

 
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Brendan Slade
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I'd like to see a mat that has a different number of starting objectives. That would shake things up.
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Peter Müller
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I think for the Diplomatic Mat you can easily switch the allocation of Produce and Trade, without changing too much the feeling. The benefit of that change would be that all mats then have unique action combinations.


Your current Diplomatic mat: (same combination as Revolutionary)
--produce----move-----trade----bolster--
--upgrade---deploy----build----enlist---


My Diplomatic suggestion: (unique combination)
---trade-----move----produce---bolster--
--upgrade---deploy----build----enlist---


Edit: Btw, Diplomatic looks like a real working 3-worker mat for nordic. I gonna tray this out tomorrow.
 
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Dan Michalowski
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arwaker wrote:
I think for the Diplomatic Mat you can easily switch the allocation of Produce and Trade, without changing too much the feeling. The benefit of that change would be that all mats then have unique action combinations.


Your current Diplomatic mat: (same combination as Revolutionary)
--produce----move-----trade----bolster--
--upgrade---deploy----build----enlist---


My Diplomatic suggestion: (unique combination)
---trade-----move----produce---bolster--
--upgrade---deploy----build----enlist---


Edit: Btw, Diplomatic looks like a real working 3-worker mat for nordic. I gonna tray this out tomorrow.

Switching the produce and trade would make this mat pretty similar to Agricultural. In fact, it would probably just be a worse version of Agricultural haha. Trade/deploy is generally a much better combo than move/deploy.

Also, Diplomatic is super fun for Nordic

There are some really cool 3 worker strategies for the board, but beware that you might get caught without mechs or much territory at the end of the game.
 
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Alan Castree
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Are Diplomatic and Revolutionary both supposed to be 1A? Just curious in case I ever get to implement these.

They look really good and would love to give them a try sometime. Thanks
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Xeno Phanes
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Love the mats. More the better.

However, can Azor please use the actual resource icon for Trade? I'm befuddeled as to why he uses these box icons instead of the actual iconography that is found in the game. I also believe the white borders around the buildings are missing. I have not checked the aspect ratio, but they seem about right for these versions. I'm glad he is using the larger font size.

Kudos Azor!
 
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Per Holmgren
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Haha, yeah I found the trade icons quite confusing too. The regular ones are available in many of the official pdfs after all (I know since I used them om my home made faction mat!).

Though, I guess one could see them as a "stamp of unofficialness"?

I'm sorely tempted to try and print out especially Revolutionary, it looks quite fun!
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Peter Müller
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MrDer wrote:
arwaker wrote:
I think for the Diplomatic Mat you can easily switch the allocation of Produce and Trade, without changing too much the feeling. The benefit of that change would be that all mats then have unique action combinations.


Your current Diplomatic mat: (same combination as Revolutionary)
--produce----move-----trade----bolster--
--upgrade---deploy----build----enlist---


My Diplomatic suggestion: (unique combination)
---trade-----move----produce---bolster--
--upgrade---deploy----build----enlist---


Edit: Btw, Diplomatic looks like a real working 3-worker mat for nordic. I gonna tray this out tomorrow.

Switching the produce and trade would make this mat pretty similar to Agricultural. In fact, it would probably just be a worse version of Agricultural haha. Trade/deploy is generally a much better combo than move/deploy.

Also, Diplomatic is super fun for Nordic

There are some really cool 3 worker strategies for the board, but beware that you might get caught without mechs or much territory at the end of the game.

Well, atm your Diplomatic is very similar to your Revolutionary mat. Would be good if you move Diplomatic slightly away from there, no matter in which direction. Disversity would profit if you had as much differences in game-feeling of the mats as possible.

Keep the move-deply combo, that is irritating but unique (at least it is special and separates Diplomatic significantly from Agri). If you are afraid of Diplomtic becoming too weak with that combination (I doubt the swap of trade and produce has much influence on efficiency), you can easily compensate by starting coins and popularity.

I think Diplomatic is a very strong mat for Nords, no matter how many worker going for. With 3-worker strategy I mean not 3 all game long, but only during mid game, where you gonna produce a lot. Such way, the Power star is a lot easier to get. Sure, when game-end approaches, every player should go for the 8 worker star and spread as much as possible. Territory gives most coins.

But I'm most intrigued by the Technological mat. I think its very rewarding for game diversity to have more mats that don't directly encourage Enlist. Enlist is already so strong, game would profit if there were more mats with bad enlist action.

 
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Ben Smith
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I had a similar idea about player mats a while back. Mine was more about making "revised" versions of the 7(8) existing ones to see if they could be reimagined without having to ban combinations. I also made my 8 only have 1 top/bottom combination in common with each other, in mine I tried to avoid straying too far from the norms established by the originals (only disobeying the "trade must start at max" rule from the original 5 so that I could make produce instead always start at max).

I made it as far as deciding what the top/bottom combinations would be for the boards, and the costs pre and post upgrades, and coin rewards. I ended up just leaving the order the same because I never got around to actual play testing or making up the physical boards. So my idea just sits for 8 reimagined player boards... in a note on my phone lol.

EDIT: I just realized that turned into me talking about my own ideas instead of applauding you on actually following through on creating something new. I'm really impressed with that technological board, it should be fun to try to use in future games.
 
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Per Holmgren
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Hey Dan, just thought this might put a smile on your face.




Super-annoying to make these two-piece boards, especially without proper hole stamp tools! Took me like 4 hours to get something I was happy with!

As we randomize faction and player mats by use of faction cards, I made one for Diplomatic too. It also makes it less important to get the back of the faction and player mats look exactly like the official ones.
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Dan Michalowski
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totgeboren wrote:
Hey Dan, just thought this might put a smile on your face.




Super-annoying to make these two-piece boards, especially without proper hole stamp tools! Took me like 4 hours to get something I was happy with!

As we randomize faction and player mats by use of faction cards, I made one for Diplomatic too. It also makes it less important to get the back of the faction and player mats look exactly like the official ones.

Woah dude! This is incredible! You're right, it has put a smile on my face.

Doing this with my own mats has been on my to-do list, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. Yours looks really good. Care to share what tools/materials you used? Would love to be able to make it like this myself.
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Per Holmgren
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I took the liberty to change the Trade icons to the standard 4-color circles, instead of your box!

Other than that, I had to print 3 copies of the player mat and one of the backside.

I also used cardboard from what I had in my hobby room. I have been using cheap document holders, though I only had enough for one of the two cardboard layers you need, so some sacrifices had to be made! My document holder has seen better days!


After that, when I had two cardboard rectangles of the correct size, I just cut out one of the player mat prints and glued it to a cardboard piece using paper glue.




After that I used the smallest size of hole stamp to cut out all the corners of the upgrade and building holes. After this I used a really sharp scalpel and the ruler to cut out the straight edges of the building, worker and upgrade holes.

The large round recruit holes were done by using the largest hole I had on the hole punch tool, though it was quite a bit too small. I just chipped away a tiny bit at a time until it was big enough. I used the scalpel to fix all the edges a bit, to make stuff look a bit nicer.

After this, the print that was glued on was quite damaged, which is why you need three prints!
I then took a new, whole print and carefully cut crosses going from corner to corner on all the worker, building and upgrade icons that are supposed to go over holes.

Then I glued this print on top of the old print. The paper of the icons over holes could then be folded into and around the edge of the holes, giving you a nice edge. The round holes need to be cut a lot of times to make the paper be foldable in a nice way.

After this, it was just a case of trying to glue everything in place, with the paper folding into and around the hole edges. Make sure the holes are big enough to fit the meeples!

After this I cut off all the paper edges that folded round so far as to make the backside uneven. (So I just cut away stuff the made the backside non-flush).
Now I glued the third print of the player mat to the bottom cardboard piece.
After this, I just glued the two pieces together! I used two wooden boards and a vice to press everything together.



What took time was to get the holes neat, and I also used quite a bit of watered-down pva glue to fix stuff that didn't stick properly. However, using watered down glue on cardboard means your cardboard will swell massively, so you really need a vice to press it together every time you have glued something.
Finally, I glued the print of the player mat backside to the back of the cardboard.

Voila, player mat done!

Dunno, would perhaps have been easier with pics as I progressed.

However, something I would have done differently is to make the 'edge regions' of the prints a bit bigger than what you intend the final cardboard to be. Also cut out the cardboard bits a bit too big. That way, when you are done with all the gluing, you can cut all the outer edges carefully and get really nice and flush outer edges on your board.
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Dan Michalowski
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So I cooked up another mat after tinkering around for a while. I realized that a mat with move/upgrade and produce/deploy could be really interesting and unique to the game if the costs and gold gain were balanced well.

The end result is this! Pioneering 5A

 


Really love this art from the wind gambit too, even though it doesn't quite fit for a player mat.
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Neal McClatchey
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Great minds think alike! That one is very similar to the one I came up with.



Lots of help from
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to make this.
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Ben Smith
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mcclatchey wrote:
Great minds think alike! That one is very similar to the one I came up with.



Lots of help from
PJ Cunningham
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This looks like Industrial 2.0 to me, maybe produce should start at 4 to make it less broken with Rusviet?
 
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Neal McClatchey
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AnalyticalNinja wrote:
mcclatchey wrote:
Great minds think alike! That one is very similar to the one I came up with.



Lots of help from
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This looks like Industrial 2.0 to me, maybe produce should start at 4 to make it less broken with Rusviet?

You should try it out before you change it. It’s loads of fun! laugh
 
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Dan Michalowski
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mcclatchey wrote:
AnalyticalNinja wrote:

This looks like Industrial 2.0 to me, maybe produce should start at 4 to make it less broken with Rusviet?

You should try it out before you change it. It’s loads of fun! laugh

Unfortunately, it is actually really broken with deploy only at 3 cost, both for Rusviet and just kinda in general. The only way I think this action combo has the right strength is if both upgrade costs 3 and deploy costs 4. Otherwise, the mat basically just becomes a better version of Patriotic, which is already the strongest board in the game.

The action combos of move/upgrade produce/deploy trade/build and bolster/enlist are essentially ideal, so it needs something awkward to slow it down a bit.

I don't have a doubt that it's fun though always cool to see other people's creations.
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Neal McClatchey
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I definitely excited to make some of the others here and try them out as well.
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Thomas Gade
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totgeboren wrote:
I took the liberty to change the Trade icons to the standard 4-color circles, instead of your box!
...

Could you share that image?

Ill be printing these mats as well.
They all seem very interesting and amazing art.
 
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Per Holmgren
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Sure. This is the file I printed out. (I needed 3x of the front and 1x of the back. It also looks rather strange when viewed on google docs. But if you open with Word it should look ok.)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1FKWfdwIT_KlZX8bo4CS2CFCA9z...

The trade icons are available in the official rules pdf, so it's rather easy to change for yourself if you want to.
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Vinicius Rezende
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Since Diplomatic 2.0 and Revolutionary are both `1A` I guess they are not supposed to be in the same game?

Or was that a mistake?
 
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