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Subject: Discussion Thread for the UK Maths Trade April 2019 rss

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Sharon Khan
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This thread is for discussion of everything relating to the Uk Maths Trade April 2019. Please keep things friendly.
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Parker McParker
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Last time I tried to do the myHermes instore printing, it came up with a range of prices by weight (as it used to, except all the prices used to be £2.85).

Has anybody done the comparison to work out which is the cheapest postage system at the moment? It would be useful to know before listing some of my cheaper stuff in the trade.

If not, I'll do the legwork myself in a few days.
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Chris Geggus
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I've not tried this in-store approach yet - how does it work? Do you turn up with your parcel unsealed and/or open and then be able to print the shiping docs off in store? Then, presumably, do all the taping and sealing whilst standing in the store. Sounds a lot messier if that's what is expected.

My local store did tell me that this was a cheaper option last time I was in, but made no reference as to how it operated.

Any comments welcome.
 
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Parker McParker
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Also, am I right in saying the GeekGold competition that runs in parallel with the trade is no more? I haven't heard much for a while, but GeekGold in general is worth stuff-all, I think.

In fact, this is why I'm asking. I was going to bung some directly to
Jeff Michaud
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as I didn't know what else to do with it. It looks like the last time he got some GG from a UK Maths Trade was August - is that right?

Would it be worth updating the header and asking people to donate to him and you directly as we see fit?
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Parker McParker
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Ahiksking wrote:
I've not tried this in-store approach yet - how does it work? Do you turn up with your parcel unsealed and/or open and then be able to print the shiping docs off in store? Then, presumably, do all the taping and sealing whilst standing in the store. Sounds a lot messier if that's what is expected.

My local store did tell me that this was a cheaper option last time I was in, but made no reference as to how it operated.

Any comments welcome.


No, you have it all taped up and ready to send. The machine prints a sticky label that you slap on the box and get scanned at the till like normal.

The machines in store aren't great - I've had a label chewed up before it was printed (refund was issued the next day) and they are sometimes dodgy on contactless payment.

Cheap though!
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David M
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MLBath wrote:
Last time I tried to do the myHermes instore printing, it came up with a range of prices by weight (as it used to, except all the prices used to be £2.85).

Has anybody done the comparison to work out which is the cheapest postage system at the moment? It would be useful to know before listing some of my cheaper stuff in the trade.

If not, I'll do the legwork myself in a few days.


I actually find Royal Mail to be the cheapest for most items. As long as it's under 2kg, and not absolutely huge, then postage is under £3. That goes up to £4 if you want tracking and a higher level of insurance.

For smaller items (that can be sent as a large letter) RM is often under £2.

The only difficulty with Royal Mail is that prices get silly (£13+) for anything over 2kg. So that's when I turn to MyHermes, which is about £6 for anything under 5kg.
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Sharon Khan
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MLBath wrote:
Also, am I right in saying the GeekGold competition that runs in parallel with the trade is no more? I haven't heard much for a while, but GeekGold in general is worth stuff-all, I think.

In fact, this is why I'm asking. I was going to bung some directly to
Jeff Michaud
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as I didn't know what else to do with it. It looks like the last time he got some GG from a UK Maths Trade was August - is that right?

Would it be worth updating the header and asking people to donate to him and you directly as we see fit?


Oops. It hasn't deliberately been stopped, but you're right, I have omitted to do it the last few times. I will go back and run those auctions now.

I must admit the Geekgold auctions are just one more thing to think about at the end of the trade and are regularly forgotten about until a later point when something jogs my memory, so I'd be very happy if they were removed. As you say GeekGold isn't really worth much nowadays, and they're just extra faff and the end of the trades tend to have enough going on for me anyway!
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Chris Geggus
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Sharon - I would make the change now. Delete the whole section about tipping and just keep what has been tipped already (unless someone has a problem with that). By all means do the previous draws, but, as you say, it's just another added bit of irritation.

If you do get subsequent tips from anyone you may want to just hand them straight over to JeffyJeff for the ongoing use of OLWLG.
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Sharon Khan
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I've removed the Geekgold auctions - if anyone who has already tipped wants their Geekgold back as a result do ask.
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Nicholas Dyson
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What's the latest realistic date for learning what games I need to send (learning exactly what addresses to send them to is less important)? It'll be somewhat of a problem for me if it's later than about the 27th, is that likely enough that I should skip this trade?
 
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Sharon Khan
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It's never more than a couple of days after the end of the trade, so you'll be fine.
 
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Abby Townsend
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Postage question - there are some items currently listed as collection only, is that allowed?
 
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Trevor Taylor
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legotortoise wrote:
Postage question - there are some items currently listed as collection only, is that allowed?


I'd say yes. But I imagine they'll get very little interest in the item except for people not noticing it's collection only.

Quote:
- It is assumed that the sender will cover the cost of shipping using a method of their choice (MyHermes, Collect+, Royal Mail etc) unless explicitly stated otherwise.


So hopefully it's VERY clear. You don't want people causing re-runs because they can't collect it.
 
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Chris Allan
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I would say that this has 100% likelihood in causing re-runs - and therefore should not be allowed.

The idea that we are all going to read through the detail of the 1000s of games listed in the trade and catch that somebody put collection only seems like wishful thinking and a recipe for disaster
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crispy116 wrote:
I would say that this has 100% likelihood in causing re-runs - and therefore should not be allowed.

The idea that we are all going to read through the detail of the 1000s of games listed in the trade and catch that somebody put collection only seems like wishful thinking and a recipe for disaster
100% correct.

We've just seen a very quick virtually-debateless rule change (less than a day) for the GG auction issue so I'm sure this could be sorted out equally quickly. It could be: whether it will be is another matter entirely.

The fewer things that are open to genuine misunderstanding and are then closed by fiat the better.

Wasn't there some unfortunate issue over 'arbitrage' last trade (I didn't take part so I didn't pay much attention) as the result of two (or more) equally valid interpretations of what constitutes arbitrage in this trade? Has that yet been made clear in a rule change or is there still a likelihood of of someone making a valid interpretation of arbitrage (such as commonly used in other trades) and inadvertently falling-foul of a still-hidden rule interpretation?
 
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Sharon Khan
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legotortoise wrote:
Postage question - there are some items currently listed as collection only, is that allowed?


No, that is not allowed. Items are expected to be posted. Thanks for pointing that out.
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Sharon Khan
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enoon wrote:

We've just seen a very quick virtually-debateless rule change (less than a day) for the GG auction issue


If I'm going to forget to run it three months in a row anyway, which apparently I have managed to do, then I may as well change the rules to reflect reality.
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Lewis Holt
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I have a question regarding 'bundling' items.

I have created a bundle of games, put them under the 'Outside the Scope of BGG' but I am getting a warning on the OLWLG

Warning! Missing altname tag
Warning! 1 of your offerings are using game id's that are generic and do not have an altname OLWLG tag (or the tag was not added correctly to be recognized). Click here for help on the altname tag. You can click on each of the following links to visit the geeklist item and edit those items :

I have had a look at the listing help (https://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/OLWLG#toc8) and although i can see the ones for Sweeteners and money, I'm not sure how to change this, to maybe help other or create less of an issue?

am I ok to leave the listing without Alt Tag's or should I put them in?

 
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Sharon Khan
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Create an altname tag saying "bundle of games", or similar. Use the altname +/- tags either side of whatever wording you want to use as the title of your bundle.

Otherwise when people add the bundle to their wantlist they won't be able to see clearly in stage 4 what they've selected.
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David M
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enoon wrote:
Wasn't there some unfortunate issue over 'arbitrage' last trade (I didn't take part so I didn't pay much attention) as the result of two (or more) equally valid interpretations of what constitutes arbitrage in this trade? Has that yet been made clear in a rule change or is there still a likelihood of of someone making a valid interpretation of arbitrage (such as commonly used in other trades) and inadvertently falling-foul of a still-hidden rule interpretation?


Yes there was. The rules have been updated so it's explicit that game for game arbitrage is not allowed.
 
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Abby Townsend
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Sorry making sure I understand this right, I’m currently listing Kodama Kickstarter edition in the hopes of getting second edition for it. I’ve listed it this way in a few previous maths trades so it’s never caused issue. Would this be considered arbitrage by that definition? I’m trying to get the second edition because it’s got a bigger box and the Kickstarter edition doesn’t have room to sleeve all the cards which I want to do because I love the game. If it’s arbitrage I can take it down though
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legotortoise wrote:
Sorry making sure I understand this right, I’m currently listing Kodama Kickstarter edition in the hopes of getting second edition for it. I’ve listed it this way in a few previous maths trades so it’s never caused issue. Would this be considered arbitrage by that definition? I’m trying to get the second edition because it’s got a bigger box and the Kickstarter edition doesn’t have room to sleeve all the cards which I want to do because I love the game. If it’s arbitrage I can take it down though


Ultimately up to the moderator, but my understanding is that yes it would. I was removed from the Feb maths trade because I attempted to trade Hanamikoji (German edition) for Hanamikoji (English edition). Like for you, this was about the box for me -- I prefer the box of the English edition.
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legotortoise wrote:
Sorry making sure I understand this right, I’m currently listing Kodama Kickstarter edition in the hopes of getting second edition for it. I’ve listed it this way in a few previous maths trades so it’s never caused issue. Would this be considered arbitrage by that definition? I’m trying to get the second edition because it’s got a bigger box and the Kickstarter edition doesn’t have room to sleeve all the cards which I want to do because I love the game. If it’s arbitrage I can take it down though
This shouldn't be considered arbitrage (although it looks like it is). Arbitrage is, essentially, getting something for nothing. This is exchanging one version of a game for another, much like exchanging a German language copy for an English language copy or vice versa. That doesn't mean some people don't think it is arbitrage of course; but they don't understand why arbitrage is actually a bad thing; 'swapping versions' or languages is not a bad thing.
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davymast wrote:
legotortoise wrote:
Sorry making sure I understand this right, I’m currently listing Kodama Kickstarter edition in the hopes of getting second edition for it. I’ve listed it this way in a few previous maths trades so it’s never caused issue. Would this be considered arbitrage by that definition? I’m trying to get the second edition because it’s got a bigger box and the Kickstarter edition doesn’t have room to sleeve all the cards which I want to do because I love the game. If it’s arbitrage I can take it down though


Ultimately up to the moderator, but my understanding is that yes it would. I was removed from the Feb maths trade because I attempted to trade Hanamikoji (German edition) for Hanamikoji (English edition). Like for you, this was about the box for me -- I prefer the box of the English edition.
That should never have been described as arbitrage. Arbitrage is - simply speaking - getting something for nothing. Swapping a language edition or a version is not getting something for nothing. Still, like you say in the end it's up to the moderator to interpret and implement their own rules. It's a shame you were removed from the trade for doing what many would regard as something perfectly legitimate. I guess you got trampled by the horde.
 
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Adam Porter
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Arbitrage regarding money offers is easy to detect because it is objectively recognisable. £20 is objectively better than £10.

The concept of a “better” version of a game is inherently subjective. A German speaker would *probably* value a German edition over an English edition; and vice versa for an English speaker.

With regards to first/second editions; Kickstarter editions etc, the value of the edition is in the eye of the beholder. “First edition” might hold some prestige. “Kickstarter edition” might suggest exclusivity. Eighth edition might suggest streamlined rules and improved components.

The only objective examples of boardgame arbitrage would be swapping a damaged version for a pristine version.

If we open the door to arbitrage being related to language-editions, and early/late editions (which we appear to have done) then we can ONLY rely on a moderator to make the final call. Fortunately we have a very kind moderator here (Sharon) who can fulfil that role.

If we are dealing with the subjective, then I would advise a firm approach applies to all. Leniency with one or two individuals will result in cries of unfairness.

My personal preference would be for artitrage to relate only to financial gain. But I respect that this has been discussed previously and a decision made to the contrary.
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