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Subject: Discussion Thread for the UK Maths Trade April 2019 rss

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Tom Pooley
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sa266 wrote:
DonJengibre wrote:
dancj wrote:
Three of my 11 games have arrived already

One of the 11 hasn't even responded to me yet cry

One of the 11 people I need to send money to hasn't replied yet either whistle


I’m still waiting for a trade proposal to come through, while my other game was delivered days ago.

Would it be poor etiquette for me to now reach out to the trader I haven’t heard from yet?


No, not at all, especially not at this point. There is no "Rule" that says it has to be set up by the sender, it's a convention that has appeared over the last few years. New users in particular are often quite grateful if you set up the trade proposal for them.



Thank you Sharon. I’ll send them a trade proposal then!
 
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MC Crispy
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DonJengibre wrote:
sa266 wrote:
DonJengibre wrote:
dancj wrote:
Three of my 11 games have arrived already

One of the 11 hasn't even responded to me yet cry

One of the 11 people I need to send money to hasn't replied yet either whistle


I’m still waiting for a trade proposal to come through, while my other game was delivered days ago.

Would it be poor etiquette for me to now reach out to the trader I haven’t heard from yet?


No, not at all, especially not at this point. There is no "Rule" that says it has to be set up by the sender, it's a convention that has appeared over the last few years. New users in particular are often quite grateful if you set up the trade proposal for them.


Thank you Sharon. I’ll send them a trade proposal then!
There's an "etiquette compliant" approach: you could PM them first (I've used this approach myself on a number of occasions)
 
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Jonathan Challis
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I've always thought it's fine for either side to set it up - whoever has time to get to it first. Sometimes it's me, sometimes the other side.

I've never regarded it as a matter of ettiquette if someone beat me to it.
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MC Crispy
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Kelanen wrote:
I've always thought it's fine for either side to set it up - whoever has time to get to it first. Sometimes it's me, sometimes the other side.

I've never regarded it as a matter of ettiquette if someone beat me to it.
I much prefer to be the initiator if I'm sending the game to an "empty half" recipient. It's just an emotional thing: I like to be the one saying "here's your game, have fun" rather than have my trading "partner" say "gimme my game, now!". I'm aware that it might well be a me (or possibly a generational) thing, but it costs nothing to respect that PoV and just hold fire if you have nothing to trade.
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Parker McParker
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mccrispy wrote:
Kelanen wrote:
I've always thought it's fine for either side to set it up - whoever has time to get to it first. Sometimes it's me, sometimes the other side.

I've never regarded it as a matter of ettiquette if someone beat me to it.
I much prefer to be the initiator if I'm sending the game to an "empty half" recipient. It's just an emotional thing: I like to be the one saying "here's your game, have fun" rather than have my trading "partner" say "gimme my game, now!". I'm aware that it might well be a me (or possibly a generational) thing, but it costs nothing to respect that PoV and just hold fire if you have nothing to trade.


And I'd rather whoever was on the site and sorting out their trades, sorted them all out. I'm happy to accept trades from whichever end they're initiated.

Plus, I'm an old fart, so I believe this is almost certainly a "you" thing.
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Tom Pooley
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Thanks for all the input. Good to hear your different views. My thinking is that it's probably polite to let the person who has the game initiate it, but if it's taking a while there should be nothing wrong with the recipient politely proposing the trade. For what it's worth I wouldn't be offended if a keen recipient initiated a trade before I had the chance to, but that's just me.
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Jonathan Challis
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MLBath wrote:

And I'd rather whoever was on the site and sorting out their trades, sorted them all out. I'm happy to accept trades from whichever end they're initiated.


Agreed. When I get around to sorting them out, I'll sort all of them remaining in both directions. Whatever is done before then is absolutely fine by me.
 
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Marc
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Unfortunately I've just received a box wrapped in bubble wrap and paper.. It looks like 3 of corners have taken a hit and a little crushing, although it was described as with 'shelf wear' so hard to be certain.
 
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Barry Churchill
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Londoner_85 wrote:
Unfortunately I've just received a box wrapped in bubble wrap and paper.. It looks like 3 of corners have taken a hit and a little crushing, although it was described as with 'shelf wear' so hard to be certain.


Geeez what's the matter with some people! The only way that would be acceptable was if it was tripled wrapped in bubble wrap and then say a bin liner to protect it from the rain if left on a doorstep. I would have a moan up to whoever sent it to you.
 
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Neil McIntyre
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Londoner_85 wrote:
Unfortunately I've just received a box wrapped in bubble wrap and paper.. It looks like 3 of corners have taken a hit and a little crushing, although it was described as with 'shelf wear' so hard to be certain.


This is getting ridiculous now.

I’d be embarrassed to ship something in this state.

Are we dealing with a single rogue trader, or an influx of parsimonious, selfish gits?
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Gordon Watson
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ASL - other tactical wargames call it Sir.
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I've received a number (5 or 6 maybe) items over the last few years, spread over a number of traders/BGG-sellers where this has been the method of packing. It seems to be a common enough misapprehension that this constitutes an appropriate level of packing to deserve a specific mention in the guidelines to say that it is not - hence some of my earlier posts.
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Rob Dales
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Londoner_85 wrote:
Unfortunately I've just received a box wrapped in bubble wrap and paper.. It looks like 3 of corners have taken a hit and a little crushing, although it was described as with 'shelf wear' so hard to be certain.


Is that from me? It could be, as I used a double layer of bubble wrap, and then surrounded it with brown paper and then parcel tape. I packaged it before the recent discussion, and thought it would be sufficient (I've received loads of games packaged like this previously, with no damage). I sincerely apologise if it has been damaged in transit, and am keen to put it right. What would be the usual way of resolving issues like this?

Edit: The description was accurate, and I would never have described a bashed box as "shelf wear". I accept that the damage was down to my packaging, but would not have misrepresented the condition in the description.
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Rob Dales
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liencam wrote:
Londoner_85 wrote:
Unfortunately I've just received a box wrapped in bubble wrap and paper.. It looks like 3 of corners have taken a hit and a little crushing, although it was described as with 'shelf wear' so hard to be certain.


This is getting ridiculous now.

I’d be embarrassed to ship something in this state.

Are we dealing with a single rogue trader, or an influx of parsimonious, selfish gits?


I'm mortified that this has happened (I'm assuming that it is my packaging that Marc is referring to), and want to put it right. It certainly won't happen again.
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Marc
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Oh jeez, didn't realise you were reading in here.
Yeah I'll message you, I'm not usually too fussy with boxes - but this one does look like it's been thrown about!
(Also I was hoping to re-use the box to post one of my games in )
 
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Parker McParker
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Londoner_85 wrote:
Unfortunately I've just received a box wrapped in bubble wrap and paper.. It looks like 3 of corners have taken a hit and a little crushing, although it was described as with 'shelf wear' so hard to be certain.


I think if you contact the sender directly letting them know what resolution you require, you'll usually get a successful resolution. I have only once had somebody send me a game with a missing piece and then subsequently shrug and say "Oh well, I forgot that was missing."
 
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Tadhg
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liencam wrote:
Londoner_85 wrote:
Unfortunately I've just received a box wrapped in bubble wrap and paper.. It looks like 3 of corners have taken a hit and a little crushing, although it was described as with 'shelf wear' so hard to be certain.


This is getting ridiculous now.

I’d be embarrassed to ship something in this state.

Are we dealing with a single rogue trader, or an influx of parsimonious, selfish gits?



Or people who have received games ordered online in similar packaging and base their expectation of reasonable packaging on what professionals do?
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MC Crispy
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WarlikePoet wrote:
liencam wrote:
Londoner_85 wrote:
Unfortunately I've just received a box wrapped in bubble wrap and paper.. It looks like 3 of corners have taken a hit and a little crushing, although it was described as with 'shelf wear' so hard to be certain.


This is getting ridiculous now.

I’d be embarrassed to ship something in this state.

Are we dealing with a single rogue trader, or an influx of parsimonious, selfish gits?



Or people who have received games ordered online in similar packaging and base their expectation of reasonable packaging on what professionals do?
double bubble-wrap and brown paper is better than several "professionally" shipped games that I've received over the years (shop and Kickstarter). But I think that many commercial enterprises find it cheaper to replace the occasional game than to send every game in top-notch packaging
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Fillipe Diniz
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mccrispy wrote:
WarlikePoet wrote:
liencam wrote:
Londoner_85 wrote:
Unfortunately I've just received a box wrapped in bubble wrap and paper.. It looks like 3 of corners have taken a hit and a little crushing, although it was described as with 'shelf wear' so hard to be certain.


This is getting ridiculous now.

I’d be embarrassed to ship something in this state.

Are we dealing with a single rogue trader, or an influx of parsimonious, selfish gits?



Or people who have received games ordered online in similar packaging and base their expectation of reasonable packaging on what professionals do?
double bubble-wrap and brown paper is better than several "professionally" shipped games that I've received over the years (shop and Kickstarter). But I think that many commercial enterprises find it cheaper to replace the occasional game than to send every game in top-notch packaging



Tell me about it. Zatu sent me Journeys in Middle Earth (not a cheap game) just with a tight box outside of it, no wrap, bubbles or anything, and at least 2 corners had dings.

Meanwhile, here I am boxing and foaming a lousy Coup for trade 🤷‍♂️
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MC Crispy
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Filliped wrote:
mccrispy wrote:
WarlikePoet wrote:
liencam wrote:
Londoner_85 wrote:
Unfortunately I've just received a box wrapped in bubble wrap and paper.. It looks like 3 of corners have taken a hit and a little crushing, although it was described as with 'shelf wear' so hard to be certain.


This is getting ridiculous now.

I’d be embarrassed to ship something in this state.

Are we dealing with a single rogue trader, or an influx of parsimonious, selfish gits?



Or people who have received games ordered online in similar packaging and base their expectation of reasonable packaging on what professionals do?
double bubble-wrap and brown paper is better than several "professionally" shipped games that I've received over the years (shop and Kickstarter). But I think that many commercial enterprises find it cheaper to replace the occasional game than to send every game in top-notch packaging



Tell me about it. Zatu sent me Journeys in Middle Earth (not a cheap game) just with a tight box outside of it, no wrap, bubbles or anything, and at least 2 corners had dings.

Meanwhile, here I am boxing and foaming a lousy Coup for trade 🤷‍♂️
Tightly fitting, thin cardboard is the worst! It gives the appearance of protection, while providing virtually none
 
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David M
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cassetteboy wrote:
I just received a game with a bashed corner because it was sent wrapped only in brown paper, no packing box or even bubble wrap.

If we do end up re-writing the rules of the trade, can we include something about appropriate packaging?


I've just received a game that I'd value at £30+ wrapped in brown paper, with one small piece of bubble wrap taped on each of the corners. Thankfully it wasn't damaged, though it easily could have been.

 
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Andrew Wroe
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On a positive note, all the parcels I've received so far in the trade have been well packaged in cardboard boxes.
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Rob Dales
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I've both sent and received many packages that have been protected by a double-layer of bubble wrap, and this is the first time damage has occurred (as far as I'm aware).

Having said that, I've been in contact with Marc, and it sounds like the damage is far worse than I would have expected, or even thought possible. The damage to the outer packaging is such that the actual game box has been split and the game board inside that has been damaged. Because of this, I've offered to source a replacement copy of the game for him, which he has accepted.

I'd like to reassure future possible traders that I've learned a valuable lesson here, and will make sure that my packaging in future will leave nothing to chance.
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Alex Gibson
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Looks like MyHermes has lost the parcel I sent out I’m told it might still show up but there’s no guarantee, which is helpful.

Not sure how I go about claiming when the claim form asks for a PayPal receipt or proof of transaction. Anyone had to do this with a math trade before?

Also, what’s the procedure for compensating the receiver?
 
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Trevor Taylor
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WolfMouth wrote:
Looks like MyHermes has lost the parcel I sent out I’m told it might still show up but there’s no guarantee, which is helpful.

Not sure how I go about claiming when the claim form asks for a PayPal receipt or proof of transaction. Anyone had to do this with a math trade before?

Also, what’s the procedure for compensating the receiver?


It kind of depends. If the item is irreplaceable (very rare) you would compensate them the cash you get back from MyHermes (plus they should be refunding your shipping charge which should go to the recipient as well). But mostly you would just replace of give funds after a possible discussion with the recipient.

The Paypal/transaction thing is only there because it greatly speeds up them refunding as they'll refund that exact value. I had to claim on a damaged trade a while ago and after sharing some amazon links for current value on the item, they eventually did refund me the full insurance amount plus the original shipping charge. So my recipient got a damaged but playable game AND cash to buy something else.

If MyHermes really mess you about and you're not in a super rush for the resolution, I suggest using https://www.resolver.co.uk/ . My only experience with them was very good and it took all the effort and stress off me. It could have been a fluke, but I'll use them again the next time I have an unresolved issue.
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Alex Gibson
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Thanks a lot for the response, that’s very helpful.

I’ll speak to the recipient and see what the best resolution is. Unfortunately, the level of insurance on the delivery doesn’t cover the value of the game; that’ll teach me for taking chances.
 
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