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Subject: Origins 2019 No Ship Math Trade (Columbus, OH: June 15) - Complete! rss

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Bill Kunes
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Re: Origins 2019 No Ship Math Trade (Columbus, OH: June 15) - Open for submissions!
I noticed when looking at details of some of the items that if you hover over the user you can see how many Abecorn trades a user has made and in many cases how many BGG trades they have made. Does anyone know what I need to do to have my BGG trade count show up?

Thanks, in advance.

meeple Keep playing (and looking forward to the trade)…

P.S. Never mind, I tried "verifying my account" and once I did that via geekmail it works. It only took me three days to do that. whistle
 
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Paul K.
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Re: Origins 2019 No Ship Math Trade (Columbus, OH: June 15) - Open for submissions!
As far as I can tell, cash option (valuation) is only for cash trades, not item-for-item trades.
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Brandon M
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Re: Origins 2019 No Ship Math Trade (Columbus, OH: June 15) - Open for submissions!
pk2317 wrote:
As far as I can tell, cash option (valuation) is only for cash trades, not item-for-item trades.


I may be wrong, but it may also be used for the "auto complete" function.
 
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Ben Stephenson
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Re: Origins 2019 No Ship Math Trade (Columbus, OH: June 15) - Open for submissions!
StandSure wrote:
JBMoby wrote:
StandSure wrote:
Another question: is there a way to prioritize trades? Like I am willing to trade my game A for X, Y, and $25, but I'd prefer to trade for Y if I can, and only take cash as last resort?

Edit:
Maybe I figured this out. I see you can assign values to the items on your want list. I'm guessing it uses those for priority.


IIRC,prioritization is something that is handled in the Trade Maximizer (which i think is still used in Abecorn trades, but I could be wrong), but it always comes after finding the greatest number of possible trades. Most mods will opt to maximize the number of participants over accounting for prioritization as well.

In other words, prioritization is the third banana, if it is even included in the bunch.

Thanks. After playing around with assigning values, it doesn't seem like I had a real affect on my trade list, unless it is behind the scenes. Sounds like it will be luck of the draw...

JBMoby wrote:
pk2317 wrote:
As far as I can tell, cash option (valuation) is only for cash trades, not item-for-item trades.


I may be wrong, but it may also be used for the "auto complete" function.


Abecorn uses trademaximizer, the seed is usually the date it was processed on and 100 iterations (I'll have to look for sure if you want). The default is always setup to maximize the total number of trades. Trademaximizer allows for priorities, but no host runs with it on. There has been a handful of trades over the years that have run with it on (PM me and I'll point you to some).

The values box is for assigning a subjective trade number to your have/wants. It's used for auto-filling in your matrix. It also is used for populating the bar graph (the alternative to using the matrix).

StandSure wrote:
...
In a related question, if I assign minimum dollar values to my offerings, does that only limit the CASH offers I would accept, or does that look at assigned values of other games and restrict those trades too? For example, I might be willing to trade Game A for a $10 value Game B that I really like, but would want $20 if all I can get is cash. If I say I will only accept $20 for Game A, will Abecorn nix a trade for Game B? Or is this moot because I would have to add cash offers to my grid?


Every assigned cash value on your haves or wants is its own unique entry the system takes into consideration for determining trades. Think of it as it's own entry that won't show up in your matrix, they'll only show up under your cash/values bar graph (right above your matrix).

Just to clarify how cash assignments works again, if you assign a dollar amount to your own game, the system will look for and want EVERY dollar amount that meets or exceeds what you want that ANYONE has assigned to ANY game. For games you want that you assign cash value, the system will treat that as it's own unique entry whose only associated entry is the game want. For reference, on the Gamestorm trade I ran last month, we had around 3300 game entries and 3600 (hidden until trade end) cash entries.
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Kris Fields
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Re: Origins 2019 No Ship Math Trade (Columbus, OH: June 15) - Open for submissions!
Is there any way with cash assignments to specify a maximum amount of cash you'd like to spend? For example, there might be 200 different games that I'd be ok spending 20 dollars on, but I certainly wouldn't all 200 for 4000 dollars.

Also, is bgg sync broken right now? I clicked the sync with bgg button before I joined this trade but my items are very stale. I added all of my 'for trade' items to the trade but there are quite a few items added that I no longer own. They're marked correctly on bgg but the re-sync didn't seem to work at all. I also have items hearted that I no longer want.
 
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Brandon M
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Re: Origins 2019 No Ship Math Trade (Columbus, OH: June 15) - Open for submissions!
Avalaunch wrote:


Also, is bgg sync broken right now? I clicked the sync with bgg button before I joined this trade but my items are very stale. I added all of my 'for trade' items to the trade but there are quite a few items added that I no longer own. They're marked correctly on bgg but the re-sync didn't seem to work at all. I also have items hearted that I no longer want.


I had this same issue. I wound up clearing my collection and then resyncing. I think sync right now imports and updates item but doesn't remove items if they aren't in the sync.

Then I realized most of my for trade items don't have their trade info in the for trade section.

So I have just been looking at my shelf, finding a game I wouldn't mind trading and adding it via just the regular add item function.
 
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Ben Stephenson
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Re: Origins 2019 No Ship Math Trade (Columbus, OH: June 15) - Open for submissions!
JBMoby wrote:
Avalaunch wrote:
Also, is bgg sync broken right now? I clicked the sync with bgg button before I joined this trade but my items are very stale. I added all of my 'for trade' items to the trade but there are quite a few items added that I no longer own. They're marked correctly on bgg but the re-sync didn't seem to work at all. I also have items hearted that I no longer want.


I had this same issue. I wound up clearing my collection and then resyncing. I think sync right now imports and updates item but doesn't remove items if they aren't in the sync.

Then I realized most of my for trade items don't have their trade info in the for trade section.

So I have just been looking at my shelf, finding a game I wouldn't mind trading and adding it via just the regular add item function.


We changed sync a few weeks ago. It's now combines your BGG and Abecorn data rather than replace it, which is why you're not seeing things erase/removed. If you see something you don't want, just click the heart and it will change back to unwanted.

Sync used to be a duplicate copy of your BGG account. Abecorn dynamically makes changes to your haves/wants as you add/unwant things and stores additional filter information (condition and sweetener data) and syncing with BGG was erasing that data (Users were also getting confused with the "This will erase your have/want data and replace it with your BGG data" sync warning message).

We talked with users about having both a "replace all data with BGG option" and the combined option, but most users liked not having to continuously resync.
 
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Re: Origins 2019 No Ship Math Trade (Columbus, OH: June 15) - Open for submissions!
Avalaunch wrote:
Is there any way with cash assignments to specify a maximum amount of cash you'd like to spend? For example, there might be 200 different games that I'd be ok spending 20 dollars on, but I certainly wouldn't all 200 for 4000 dollars.


We've had requests for a wallet feature to limit spending, but there were a couple of limitations we don't currently have solutions for.

The additional processing required to add another filter on trademaxmizer to force limit trades based on dollar limits and the assumption that the system would always prefer lowest dollar exchanges to maximize trades given a spending limit made it seem unfair to users with more valuable games that preferred cash.
 
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Jeff Sharp
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Re: Origins 2019 No Ship Math Trade (Columbus, OH: June 15) - Open for submissions!
So is abecorn a for profit business in addition to having functionality to support a math trade? Also are there any incentives to math trade organizers to use abecorn?
 
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Kris Fields
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Re: Origins 2019 No Ship Math Trade (Columbus, OH: June 15) - Open for submissions!
Bien wrote:

We changed sync a few weeks ago. It's now combines your BGG and Abecorn data rather than replace it, which is why you're not seeing things erase/removed. If you see something you don't want, just click the heart and it will change back to unwanted.

If it doesn't sync any more you should probably call it import or something other than sync as that can be really confusing. I assumed my abecorn haves/wants would be in sync with my BGG collection after resyncing. I feel like that should be a safe assumption after clicking a button that says 'Sync BGG Collection'. It would be nice if there was some messaging explaining what will happen when you click that button, and then some update that it is actually happening, followed by a final update that the "sync" was successful (or not).

For my case, it seems like nothing happened when I tried to resync as my list of wants/have is completely off. Then again, I am still very confused as to what is supposed to happen.

Right now I have 295 games listed for trade on BGG. I have 323 in the Origins math trade though - so at least 28 that I no longer own even though I "synced" with BGG. If I hadn't been paying more attention I would have traded games I no longer own. I really don't relish the idea of going through all 323 of my listings on abecorn and cross referencing them with BGG to determine whether or not I still own them.

I also now own a lot of games that used to be on my "wants" list but they're still coming up as "want" on abecorn. Again if I don't pay super close attention I'll end up getting duplicates of games I already own. I own over 500 games so it's VERY easy for me to forget that I already acquired a game that I previously wanted, so now instead of wanting games being a quick and painless task on Abecorn it's tedious. I have to go through each game I 'heart' and cross reference it with BGG to make sure I actually want it. Ugh.

I'm still very confused on what the BGG sync is doing. Could you clarify what the syncing functionality is supposed to be doing?

If I no longer have an item on BGG, is it supposed to remove the 'have' tag on Abecorn?

If I previously wanted an item on BGG but now own it, is the want tag removed? Is the have tag added?

If the trade condition of an item on BGG is updated (from new in shrink to Excellent, for example), will that be reflected on abecorn?

With such a large collection, having to go item by item to confirm that my abecorn collection is in sync with my BGG collection (which I know accurately reflects my actual collection) is extremely tedious, to say the least.

Bien wrote:

Sync used to be a duplicate copy of your BGG account. Abecorn dynamically makes changes to your haves/wants as you add/unwant things and stores additional filter information (condition and sweetener data) and syncing with BGG was erasing that data (Users were also getting confused with the "This will erase your have/want data and replace it with your BGG data" sync warning message).


Hmm, why was the additional filter information getting erased or was it just the have/wants that were getting erased/replaced? I would also have found that warning message confusing. I think it could stand to be a lot more explicit. Something like: "By syncing with your BGG collection, your Abecorn collection will by synced to exactly match your BGG collection. Every game in your 'Owned' list on BGG will be given the 'have' tag on Abecorn. Any item that currently has the 'have' tag on Abecorn will have that tag removed unless it's also on your 'Owned' list on BGG. Every game in your 'Want in Trade' list on BGG will be given the 'want' tag on Abecorn. Any item that currently has the 'want' tag on Abecorn will have that tag removed unless it's also on your 'Want in Trade' list on BGG. Any item that is currently listed by you in a trade that loses it's 'have' tag will be removed from that trade. Any item that is currently listed by you as an item you want in a trade that loses it's 'want' tag will be removed from your list of wants for that trade."

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Ernie Barrett
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Re: Origins 2019 No Ship Math Trade (Columbus, OH: June 15) - Open for submissions!
took me forever to figure out how to use the other system. Count me out for this year as I dont have the time/patience to learn a new system.
 
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Dean Peterson

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Re: Origins 2019 No Ship Math Trade (Columbus, OH: June 15) - Open for submissions!
Avalaunch wrote:
Bien wrote:

We changed sync a few weeks ago. It's now combines your BGG and Abecorn data rather than replace it, which is why you're not seeing things erase/removed. If you see something you don't want, just click the heart and it will change back to unwanted.

If it doesn't sync any more you should probably call it import or something other than sync as that can be really confusing. I assumed my abecorn haves/wants would be in sync with my BGG collection after resyncing. I feel like that should be a safe assumption after clicking a button that says 'Sync BGG Collection'. It would be nice if there was some messaging explaining what will happen when you click that button, and then some update that it is actually happening, followed by a final update that the "sync" was successful (or not).

For my case, it seems like nothing happened when I tried to resync as my list of wants/have is completely off. Then again, I am still very confused as to what is supposed to happen.

Right now I have 295 games listed for trade on BGG. I have 323 in the Origins math trade though - so at least 28 that I no longer own even though I "synced" with BGG. If I hadn't been paying more attention I would have traded games I no longer own. I really don't relish the idea of going through all 323 of my listings on abecorn and cross referencing them with BGG to determine whether or not I still own them.

I also now own a lot of games that used to be on my "wants" list but they're still coming up as "want" on abecorn. Again if I don't pay super close attention I'll end up getting duplicates of games I already own. I own over 500 games so it's VERY easy for me to forget that I already acquired a game that I previously wanted, so now instead of wanting games being a quick and painless task on Abecorn it's tedious. I have to go through each game I 'heart' and cross reference it with BGG to make sure I actually want it. Ugh.

I'm still very confused on what the BGG sync is doing. Could you clarify what the syncing functionality is supposed to be doing?

If I no longer have an item on BGG, is it supposed to remove the 'have' tag on Abecorn?

If I previously wanted an item on BGG but now own it, is the want tag removed? Is the have tag added?

If the trade condition of an item on BGG is updated (from new in shrink to Excellent, for example), will that be reflected on abecorn?

With such a large collection, having to go item by item to confirm that my abecorn collection is in sync with my BGG collection (which I know accurately reflects my actual collection) is extremely tedious, to say the least.

Bien wrote:

Sync used to be a duplicate copy of your BGG account. Abecorn dynamically makes changes to your haves/wants as you add/unwant things and stores additional filter information (condition and sweetener data) and syncing with BGG was erasing that data (Users were also getting confused with the "This will erase your have/want data and replace it with your BGG data" sync warning message).


Hmm, why was the additional filter information getting erased or was it just the have/wants that were getting erased/replaced? I would also have found that warning message confusing. I think it could stand to be a lot more explicit. Something like: "By syncing with your BGG collection, your Abecorn collection will by synced to exactly match your BGG collection. Every game in your 'Owned' list on BGG will be given the 'have' tag on Abecorn. Any item that currently has the 'have' tag on Abecorn will have that tag removed unless it's also on your 'Owned' list on BGG. Every game in your 'Want in Trade' list on BGG will be given the 'want' tag on Abecorn. Any item that currently has the 'want' tag on Abecorn will have that tag removed unless it's also on your 'Want in Trade' list on BGG. Any item that is currently listed by you in a trade that loses it's 'have' tag will be removed from that trade. Any item that is currently listed by you as an item you want in a trade that loses it's 'want' tag will be removed from your list of wants for that trade."



I had discussions with Ben about this. I understand your confusion. I expressed the same concern about people being confused about what sync actually does now. When we moved to the consolidated view, it became obvious how we were under utilizing wants (when you heart something). That heart is the same signal used when a want is pulled from your collection in BGG. If we did a true sync with BGG like we did before, so your wants, matched bgg, that would wipe out all of the items you hearted in Abecorn that are not in your BGG wants collection. You would miss any new items added to a trade of the item you previously hearted, not in your bgg want list. We decided it would be more damaging and confusing if that happened and changed sync to be additive. I agree, it is confusing.

There is an existing solution, if you do want a true sync. You can force it. Go to "My Lists" in the left Nav. On both the "Haves" and "Wants" tabs, there is a "Delete All" button. Click the "Delete All" button on one or both of those to start with a clean slate. Then, when you do a BGG sync, it will actually be a sync.
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Nathan Norton
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Re: Origins 2019 No Ship Math Trade (Columbus, OH: June 15) - Open for submissions!
ErnieB wrote:
took me forever to figure out how to use the other system. Count me out for this year as I dont have the time/patience to learn a new system.


THere isn't hardly any learning required. It's more intuitive than OLWLG. Worth logging on if you want to participate. It's not a difficult process, but the choice is ultimately yours. Obviously.
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Re: Origins 2019 No Ship Math Trade (Columbus, OH: June 15) - Open for submissions!
PeteVasi wrote:
So, about 24 hours in and we're up to 750 items!

For comparison, last year's total was 4074 items. That trade still ranks as the largest no-ship trade on record.

It did however include a bunch of items like "$10 cash", which Abecorn handles internally, without needing to make items for each value for each person. So, I'd say we're up to 20%-25% of last year's total already.

In just one day.

I look forward to how the next month fills in.


In case others haven't noticed this; the total listed on the trade page is the total of "different" games added since moving to the consolidated view. The total of all games is shown on the trade search listing.

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Wants list filter fixed
Just an FYI, the wants filter has been fixed.
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Brandon M
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Re: Origins 2019 No Ship Math Trade (Columbus, OH: June 15) - Open for submissions!
You keep saying consolidated view. What exactly is that referring to?

Is it an option you switch to or is it just the internal name for the current display arrangemnt, or something else?
 
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Re: Origins 2019 No Ship Math Trade (Columbus, OH: June 15) - Open for submissions!
ErnieB wrote:
took me forever to figure out how to use the other system. Count me out for this year as I dont have the time/patience to learn a new system.


JBMoby wrote:
You keep saying consolidated view. What exactly is that referring to?

Is it an option you switch to or is it just the internal name for the current display arrangemnt, or something else?


The listings you see in the trade are consolidated and made up of all of the same game.

I made a single image, 4 step flow chart of what to do for abecorn and the basics of how to add a game.


Adding a game



The only thing missing is how you make trades using the graph/matrix. There are lots of other features to do things like making mass listings, duplicate protection, hosting that are include in the few page guide (mostly pictures). Abecorn Walkthru
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Re: Origins 2019 No Ship Math Trade (Columbus, OH: June 15) - Open for submissions!
jsharp wrote:
So is abecorn a for profit business in addition to having functionality to support a math trade? Also are there any incentives to math trade organizers to use abecorn?

Yes, I believe Abecorn is a for-profit business, like BGG.

Other than supplying the tools to assist organizers in running a math trade, there's no incentives for organizers to use Abecorn.

Personally, I run the Origins Math Trade in my "free" time (which isn't as free as it once was). Any tools that can make that easier, I'm for.
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Re: Origins 2019 No Ship Math Trade (Columbus, OH: June 15) - Open for submissions!
Bien wrote:
I made a single image, 4 step flow chart of what to do for abecorn and the basics of how to add a game.


In the actual UI, using the descriptive text from this image as the hover text on those icons would be most useful. Users don't read, and especially don't read documentation. But if you can put it into the UI at the moment that they are interested in it, they'll see it.

Also, what does the trash icon to the right of those icons do? Clicking the heart already removes it from your list.
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Re: Origins 2019 No Ship Math Trade (Columbus, OH: June 15) - Open for submissions!
PeteVasi wrote:
Also, what does the trash icon to the right of those icons do? Clicking the heart already removes it from your list.


The trash icon is only view-able by the the host and admin. It deletes the game completely from the trade.
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Brandon M
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Re: Origins 2019 No Ship Math Trade (Columbus, OH: June 15) - Open for submissions!
PETE!

Someone just pointed this out to me. Apparently Origins is moving registration to the North Attrium this year.

We probably need to find a new place to do the Trade.

Quote:
How do I pick up my badge?

Whether you registered your badge online or on-site, you can pick up your badge at any Registration Kiosk in the North Atrium between 7am - 9pm Wednesday through Saturday and 7am - 2pm on Sunday.


FAQ question #1 under Badge Registration
 
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Re: Origins 2019 No Ship Math Trade (Columbus, OH: June 15) - Open for submissions!
JBMoby wrote:
PETE!

Someone just pointed this out to me. Apparently Origins is moving registration to the North Attrium this year.

We probably need to find a new place to do the Trade.

Quote:
How do I pick up my badge?

Whether you registered your badge online or on-site, you can pick up your badge at any Registration Kiosk in the North Atrium between 7am - 9pm Wednesday through Saturday and 7am - 2pm on Sunday.


FAQ question #1 under Badge Registration


Ack! Hmm, definitely sounds like they're setting up shop in that same area that we use. And that will make it quite crowded on a Saturday morning. Thanks for letting me know!

Anyone have other ideas on where to best meet? Maybe the South Atrium by the staircase there? https://columbusconventions.com/convention-center-map/
I recall that section being fairly open and relatively quiet in years past.
 
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Re: Origins 2019 No Ship Math Trade (Columbus, OH: June 15) - Open for submissions!
PeteVasi wrote:
JBMoby wrote:
PETE!

Someone just pointed this out to me. Apparently Origins is moving registration to the North Attrium this year.

We probably need to find a new place to do the Trade.

Quote:
How do I pick up my badge?

Whether you registered your badge online or on-site, you can pick up your badge at any Registration Kiosk in the North Atrium between 7am - 9pm Wednesday through Saturday and 7am - 2pm on Sunday.


FAQ question #1 under Badge Registration


Ack! Hmm, definitely sounds like they're setting up shop in that same area that we use. And that will make it quite crowded on a Saturday morning. Thanks for letting me know!

Anyone have other ideas on where to best meet? Maybe the South Atrium by the staircase there? https://columbusconventions.com/convention-center-map/
I recall that section being fairly open and relatively quiet in years past.


I'm sorry if I'm blind but where is the south atrium? Is that near the South Marketplace?

That would be great.

 
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Brandon M
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Re: Origins 2019 No Ship Math Trade (Columbus, OH: June 15) - Open for submissions!
corkysru wrote:
PeteVasi wrote:
JBMoby wrote:
PETE!

Someone just pointed this out to me. Apparently Origins is moving registration to the North Attrium this year.

We probably need to find a new place to do the Trade.

Quote:
How do I pick up my badge?

Whether you registered your badge online or on-site, you can pick up your badge at any Registration Kiosk in the North Atrium between 7am - 9pm Wednesday through Saturday and 7am - 2pm on Sunday.


FAQ question #1 under Badge Registration


Ack! Hmm, definitely sounds like they're setting up shop in that same area that we use. And that will make it quite crowded on a Saturday morning. Thanks for letting me know!

Anyone have other ideas on where to best meet? Maybe the South Atrium by the staircase there? https://columbusconventions.com/convention-center-map/
I recall that section being fairly open and relatively quiet in years past.


I'm sorry if I'm blind but where is the south atrium? Is that near the South Marketplace?

That would be great.



I think Pete is either referring to the stairs on that map to the left (west) the where it says "A POD MEETING ROOMS" or the Walkway coming over from RPGs before you hit the escalators down to where registration used to be.

The South Marketplace is the food court, which will probably be busy. There probably won't be an open rooms over there either. RPG events start at 9am, sometimes 8am.
 
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Re: Origins 2019 No Ship Math Trade (Columbus, OH: June 15) - Open for submissions!
JBMoby wrote:

The South Marketplace is the food court, which will probably be busy.

I stayed at the Drury last year (my first Origins) and so walked through that food court a lot. I seem to recall it being fairly large and open and not super busy in the morning, except for people waiting to get breakfast at the couple open places. Maybe a more seasoned veteran could weigh in on that, since I can't be sure my memory is accurate.
 
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