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Subject: TABSCon No-Ship Math Trade (June 1 2019) - DISCUSSION THREAD rss

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MGK
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......... Trade Geeklist located here
......... Request Geeklist is located here.

Key Dates
(all times are EASTERN TIME)

Submissions Open: Immediately
Submissions Close: Monday May 27 at 10 pm
Want Lists Due: Wednesday May 29 at 10 pm
Results will be posted ASAP afterwards.

Trade Date & Location

Where: TabsCon, Royal Canadian Legion Hall (Branch #11), 9 Dawes Road, Toronto, ON
When: Saturday June 1, 2019.
Time: 12:00am - 1:00pm - receive submissions. 1:00pm - 1:30pm - pick up new games.

All games must have the name of the recipient attached.
Post-it notes or painter's tape work best.
 
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B Dent
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I'm somewhat confused. The geek mail generated by OLWG shows a rather different story than what I approved in OLWG.

For each altname entry with multiple copies optioned, the geek mail shows that the OLWG actually auto-created duplicate protection for the copies.

Would this not prevent those folks from actually using more than one of their copies on any of my stuff? So if they put in 5 copies of $20 Cash, they could only spend 1 copy on any of my games? Am I misunderstanding?

Or has OLWG done something totally bonkers?

SAMPLE:
# Automatic duplicate protection for your want Alt Name: $15 Cash
(kuma133) %6933179 : 6933179-COPY1 6933179-COPY2 6933179-COPY3 6933179-COPY4
 
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Matthew Cott
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kuma133 wrote:
I'm somewhat confused. The geek mail generated by OLWG shows a rather different story than what I approved in OLWG.

For each altname entry with multiple copies optioned, the geek mail shows that the OLWG actually auto-created duplicate protection for the copies.

Would this not prevent those folks from actually using more than one of their copies on any of my stuff? So if they put in 5 copies of $20 Cash, they could only spend 1 copy on any of my games? Am I misunderstanding?

Or has OLWG done something totally bonkers?

SAMPLE:
# Automatic duplicate protection for your want Alt Name: $15 Cash
(kuma133) %6933179 : 6933179-COPY1 6933179-COPY2 6933179-COPY3 6933179-COPY4


I believe the duplicate protection is the other way around, it creates Duplicated Protection AGAINST that item. If you have 5 copies of a $20 gift card, and I list 5 games against it, only ONE of those games can get the gift card.

As for the other way around, they can still spend all 5 of their gift cards for all 5 of your games. But since the Math Trade is a big circular thing, you would just get other items in that chain, it wouldn't be a bunch of 1:1 trades with that person.

It's unfortunate, but I imagine logistically much easier than building the program to let you pick an exact quantity you want, because maybe you want only 3 of the 5 alt-names, just another layer of complexity.
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John Knight
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On the OLWLG Want List Editing page, some of the items unchecked for items I want are highlighted in yellow.

What does this represent?
 
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Peter L
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DarkEnigma wrote:
On the OLWLG Want List Editing page, some of the items unchecked for items I want are highlighted in yellow.

What does this represent?


here's your answer:
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/181401/item/3791109#i...
 
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John Knight
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Oh, how neat and clever...ty!
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A
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For the new people:

After choosing your wants under Step 4, click on the green Submit Your Lists Here! button.


On the next page, click on the Submit My Wants button.


Then make sure you get the confirmation geekmail. If you didn't receive it, you didn't do the steps above (most likely).

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MGK
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80 minutes to go, still waiting on

bennytoo
Bryola
emspace
fawasim
hasanfa7
Madmatt7
paulpaul2076
VicGlorious
XScorpion
 
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MGK
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we're down to

emspace
Madmatt7
paulpaul2076
XScorpion
 
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John Knight
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Proud to not see my name on this list 20 mins too late like I did back in December, on my very first try to participate in a MATH Trade. :-)
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MGK
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Results are uploaded but don't hold your breath. There are some arbitrage trades in there and I'm going to have to manually delete some wants and re-run if possible.

(it is literally the first fucking rule about posting items, people)
 
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Augie
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I have a feeling some people didn't understand what "arbitrage" meant exactly.

And some people who were just trying to sell Gift Cards they already have. Which at first, doesn't seem to be a problem. But since you can order GC on the fly, that can be used to bypass the rule in question.
 
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MGK
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I've been trying to manually edit the Wants file for thirty minutes now with no luck. I just keep getting errors on even simple edits.

As it stands, right now we have four fringe cases of arbitrage:

1. g3p3nk trades $30 to brenthenson, receives $20 plus a Garphill promo pack from ayo23
1. janiceylaw trades a $15 Bliss gift card to Emspace, receives $15 cash from Rage88
2. janiceylaw trades a $10 WFS gift card to Rage88, receives $10 cash from TeveshKCP
3. TeveshKCP trades $20 cash to CanadianKorean, receives $20 cash from AGVSTVS

ayo23, brenthenson, Emspace, AVGSTVS and Rage88 do not appear to have attempted to conduct in arbitrage at all. They are fine.

g3p3nk's actual trade result ($30 for $20 plus the promos) is really not in the spirit of math trading but it itself, I think, manages to not quite be arbitrage, since from g3p3nk's standpoint he's effectively trading $10 for some promos. However, a review of his wantlists shows that he was also trying to trade less than $20 for the cash plus the promos, which means he was attempting arbitrage.

janiceylaw's want lists show clear attempts at arbitrage - specifically, attempting to trade her gift cards for more than their face value. No such attempts were successful. This user also had cash lots up for trade but those do not appear to have been the subject of arbitrage trade attempts. That having been said, the gift card trade lists are clearly in violation of the arbitrage rule.

TeveshKCP's want lists also show clear attempts at arbitrage, attempting to trade cash for more cash. No such attempts were successful.

Given that there was no successful arbitrage in the actual trade results - IE nobody managed to increase their net take by a hard-dollar amount - and given that I am having significant trouble editing the want lists, my decision is that the trade results will stand.

However: I will be sending the three users in questions warnings, and they should consider them 100 percent final warnings with permabans being the next step for any misconduct. Arbitrage is disallowed from math trades for both legal and ethical reasons. I will also, in future, disallow the use of cash sweeteners and mixed cash/game items.

The point of the math trade isn't to make fucking money, people. It's to cycle games around so we can all maximize fun. I have just wasted an hour and a half of my life on this and I am, bluntly, really goddamn angry that some assholes couldn't be bothered to follow the goddamn rules.
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g3p g3p
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Thank you for organizing this math trade, MGK.
I am sorry that I was one of the people that made it hard on you..

Not to be a jerk or anything, I just want to challenge / confirm what I can or cannot do..

In my case, I simply wanted the promo pack alone.. for a maximum of $10.

Had the listing put the emphasize more on the promo pack entry (and the cash is extra) and I hit the trade with lower cash value, is that an arbitrage?
Is the problem due to the added cash in the entry?

There are no other entries with just that promo pack..
Let's say same situation were to happen in the future.. How do I go about getting this promo pack then?
Is 'selling' one of my offerings the only way?
If I listed my wants only at the $25 or $30, is that still an arbitrage?
What about listing my want at $20 level? Practically getting the promo pack for free.. Is that still an arbitrage?

I just want to know what I can / cannot do.. Where is the boundary? or whether this type of practice is just strictly prohibited.. and that there is no way I can get the promo cards if it is attached with cash..

On the side note, I thought I did not mark anything lower than $20.. but apparently that was not the case.. This, I acknowledge for being an arbitrage attempt and I am sorry for it. I will be very careful not to do this in the future trades.
For the questions above, please enlighten me..

EDIT: I think disallowing the mix of cash / game item is the cleanest way to go.. I still would want to spark the conversation I had above though..
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Bryan Ledgerwood
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Just woke up and saw this. I have nothing constructive to add, but I want to express great appreciation for MGK and your efforts time after time. We don't always see the background work, an we are lucky to have you running these trades!
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Peter L
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Thank you for organizing this math trade! Much appreciated!
 
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Andrew Varga
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Thanks for running things.

Agreed on arbitrage. That promo trade seems OK to me but there should be 0 cash for cash trades. If that's a grey area then to reduce confusion any trade with cash on both sides shouldn't be allowed.

I understand some folks only want to trade up, or score a cheap bargain rather than just swap games but it shouldn't involve profiteering.
 
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Peter L
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As a tip for future math trades ...

I know it can be super easy to accidentally click the checkboxes that represent cash-for-cash transactions. With hundreds of checkboxes to look over, this simple mistake is far too easy to do. One of the ways I avoid it, is to put a value of "-100" or some other arbitrarily low number to my offered cash items. I also do this with items that I need to pull back and submit blank lists for as well.

This way, in step 4 of the OLWLG, all of my cash items will be to one side. And before I click the submit button, I always do a quick once over to THAT side of the board, to make sure that I haven't offered cash for cash.
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g3p g3p
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enigma0t2 wrote:
As a tip for future math trades ...

I know it can be super easy to accidentally click the checkboxes that represent cash-for-cash transactions. With hundreds of checkboxes to look over, this simple mistake is far too easy to do. One of the ways I avoid it, is to put a value of "-100" or some other arbitrarily low number to my offered cash items. I also do this with items that I need to pull back and submit blank lists for as well.

This way, in step 4 of the OLWLG, all of my cash items will be to one side. And before I click the submit button, I always do a quick once over to THAT side of the board, to make sure that I haven't offered cash for cash.


I didn't know you can put negative value...
But this seems like a great idea!
Thanks!!
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Jamie Maltman
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If you want to trade someone cash for their gift card, contact them privately and buy it from them.

To do it like this in the math trade you're not only causing stress to the organizer, but now you're both costing yourselves the BGG fee that you now owe.

Hand over those donations!
 
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Matthew Cott
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MaltmanJ wrote:
If you want to trade someone cash for their gift card, contact them privately and buy it from them.

To do it like this in the math trade you're not only causing stress to the organizer, but now you're both costing yourselves the BGG fee that you now owe.

Hand over those donations!


This was all I was thinking of, the trade that was $20 cash for $20 cash is 100% to the detriment of the person trading it, as he owes the BGG fee meaning he lost some small amount of money and gained nothing. It really is just a charitable donation now.
 
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Marcus
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Yup, they're out $0.60 on that $20 (bgg takes 3%). Plus a bit of notoriety...
 
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Michael Chang
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I'll be picking up and dropping off for

Christian Suarez
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Peter Hoang
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Thank you organizers!

My good friend:

Mike Eng
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will be dropping off and picking up my game.

For reference:
(Ricesteam) gives "El Grande Big Box (203)" to bennytoo (806)
(Ricesteam) receives "Architects of the West Kingdom (872)" from ayo23
 
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