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Subject: Episode 147- Gentes rss

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Jeremy Holmes
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During this weeks episode:

1) The Pegs discuss their recent game plays including Downfall, Die Tavernen im Tiefen Thal, Tichu, Glux and many more;

2) All the Pegs review the action selection game Gentes; and

3) Look back at Trajan.

4) FUN FACT: Christina's Whoop Whoop is the saddest Whoop Whoop


https://bluepegpinkpeg.com/2019/05/27/episode-147-gentes/
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Salvatore del Popolo
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Thank you Patrick for not attempting a voice for my comments om Trajan. Despite the very Italian sounding name I'm actually Aussie, so most likely you would've gotten it very, very wrong. laugh
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Patrick Kelly
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You are correct. It would have been awkward and probably offensive. Your name is incredible though. However; I do have to say My Aussie accent is actually better than my Italian one.
 
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pablopk wrote:
You are correct. It would have been awkward and probably offensive. Your name is incredible though. However; I do have to say My Aussie accent is actually better than my Italian one.


That, I would love to hear then. I've never heard an American do a decent job of the Aussie accent. Looking forward to it on the next podcast!
 
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Edd Crutchington
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Die Tavernen im Tiefen Thal - Die is pronounced Dee (pretty sure on this one)
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C&H Schmidt
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What I really want to know is why American boardgame reviewers consistently pronounce the "clever" in Ganz schön clever and Doppelt so clever as "cleaver".
BPPP are the 4th American boardgame podcast that I've heard do it, and it's so weird!

Sometimes English speakers mispronounce German phrases because they pronounce it like they would in English -- but this is somehow the opposite mistake, except even weirder, because:
"Clever" in German is pronounced exactly as "clever" in (British) English!

There is also no circumstance under which the German vowel "e" is ever pronounced like the English "ee" as in "need" or "greed" (or "cleaver"). Never!
It is always pronounced like the "e" in "bed", "red", "den" -- or "clever"!
(There is also a long version of that vowel which doesn't exist in English, but that doesn't appear in any popular German boardgame title I can think of.)

I wonder if there is some German boardgamer who deliberately taught Americans to pronounce "clever" wrong for a laugh, and now it's just uncontrolably proliferating through the American boardgame scene? If so, I'd love to know who did it!

Btw, if you do want to make the Enlish "ee" sound in German, you write "ie" as in "Spiel" (like the fair in Essen).
Having said that, I guess I can touch on Die Tavernen im Tiefen Thal: German "Die" (which is one of the 3 German words for "the") is thus pronounced "dee" as in "deer" without the r at the end. "tiefen" is pronounced "teefen".
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Brendan Riley
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Gswp wrote:
What I really want to know is why American boardgame reviewers consistently pronounce the "clever" in Ganz schön clever and Doppelt so clever as "cleaver".
BPPP are the 4th American boardgame podcast that I've heard do it, and it's so weird!


Huh. I haven't listened to the BPPP podcast yet, but every reviewer I've heard reference said "clever" like the English word. Board Game Blitz, On Board Games, Podcast of Nonsensical Gamers if I had to try and remember, but it's been a while.

Makes me want to make a horror movie retheme.

Toby Hooper, filmmaker behind the horror classic TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE, brings you his take on this thinky little roll and write: Ganz schön cleaver."
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C&H Schmidt
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You're right, a lot of English speakers do pronounce it correctly! But I listen to a number of boardgame podcasts, and this mistake is so odd that it really sticks out. As I said, BPPP are the 4th.
'What Did You Play This Week' were the first ones I heard do it quite a long while ago, and then two more that I listen to, but I can't swear to who it was anymore.
 
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Patrick Kelly
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Thanks for the pronunciation pointers.
 
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pablopk wrote:
Thanks for the pronunciation pointers.
Hm, I hope you didn't take that as being arrogant and telling you off... Pronouncing stuff in languages you don't speak is hard. (Edit: Especially with all the fake pronounciation guides on Youtube that deliberately mislead people into pronouncing stuff wrong.)

But I'd still love to know which German boardgamer is running around telling people it's pronounced "cleaver", if you can enlighten me!
 
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Patrick Kelly
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Gswp wrote:
pablopk wrote:
Thanks for the pronunciation pointers.
Hm, I hope you didn't take that as being arrogant and telling you off... Pronouncing stuff in languages you don't speak is hard. (Edit: Especially with all the fake pronounciation guides on Youtube that deliberately mislead people into pronouncing stuff wrong.)

But I'd still love to know which German boardgamer is running around telling people it's pronounced "cleaver", if you can enlighten me!



No, no, no, no, no, no. I am sorry if my response came off as terse, I am on my phone so I was perhaps briefer than I should have been. I honestly and earnestly try my very best to pronounce unfamiliar foreign words or phrases as accurately as possible. For myself, when it comes to German I typically rely on C for my German pronunciation, but you know how it is with a foreign pronunciation you get stuck in your head the wrong way, you don’t hear it used enough to get it dislodged. I think you are right about cleaver/clever. There is some ur pronunciation error out there that got half of us pointed in the wrong direction.

Side note: I usually use IPA pronunciation guides to figure this stuff out. Back in college I took a number of dialect classes (drink) and learned to read IPA annotations there. I just got lazy on these.
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Brendan Riley
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Gswp wrote:
pablopk wrote:
Thanks for the pronunciation pointers.
Hm, I hope you didn't take that as being arrogant and telling you off... Pronouncing stuff in languages you don't speak is hard. (Edit: Especially with all the fake pronounciation guides on Youtube that deliberately mislead people into pronouncing stuff wrong.)

But I'd still love to know which German boardgamer is running around telling people it's pronounced "cleaver", if you can enlighten me!


This is really a thing? Reminds me of an old Monty Python sketch.


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OK, admittedly I don't know how much of a thing it really is.

But this is top result on Youtube if you type in "Schadenfreude pronounciation":
(I don't even know if I should link it...)


Let me be clear: This is NOT how you pronounce "Schadenfreude"!
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Brendan Riley
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Gswp wrote:
OK, admittedly I don't know how much of a thing it really is.

But this is top result on Youtube if you type in "Schadenfreude pronounciation":
(I don't even know if I should link it...)


Let me be clear: This is NOT how you pronounce "Schadenfreude"!


BUT WHAT A WORD TO DO IT WITH. The other would be the word for "mispronounciation."
 
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Chris Graves
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Salvatortoise wrote:
pablopk wrote:
You are correct. It would have been awkward and probably offensive. Your name is incredible though. However; I do have to say My Aussie accent is actually better than my Italian one.


That, I would love to hear then...


You really shouldn't encourage him.
 
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Patrick Kelly
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Salvatortoise wrote:
pablopk wrote:
You are correct. It would have been awkward and probably offensive. Your name is incredible though. However; I do have to say My Aussie accent is actually better than my Italian one.


That, I would love to hear then. I've never heard an American do a decent job of the Aussie accent. Looking forward to it on the next podcast!


I didn’t say it was a decent accent, I said it was better than my Italian accent.
 
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Eric Selander
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Gswp wrote:
What I really want to know is why American boardgame reviewers consistently pronounce the "clever" in Ganz schön clever and Doppelt so clever as "cleaver".
BPPP are the 4th American boardgame podcast that I've heard do it, and it's so weird!
....
Btw, if you do want to make the Enlish "ee" sound in German, you write "ie" as in "Spiel" (like the fair in Essen).
Having said that, I guess I can touch on Die Tavernen im Tiefen Thal: German "Die" (which is one of the 3 German words for "the") is thus pronounced "dee" as in "deer" without the r at the end. "tiefen" is pronounced "teefen".

So glad to have a German speaker chime in here. I’ve heard some really simple rules that would go a long way toward making German pronunciation much better for English speakers. I think every board game podcaster should commit them to memory.
For starters, you’ve mentioned the pronunciation of “e” virtually always being like the short “e” in English.
And, I think it was from Scott Nicholson that I learned: think of Einstein for “ei” (long “I” sound), and so “ie” is opposite (long “E” sound).
It must be torture for German listeners to hear the German word “die” pronounced like “dye” so often! “Die Steven Seagal,” right?
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Eric Selander
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Patrick, thank you for clarifying the China tariffs a bit. There were some rash, knee-jerk reactions to their news. An informed analysis is always the best approach, and your insights were very helpful. As you said, these could be potentially devastating for some, but misinformed, unresearched reactions are irresponsible.
Kudos.
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pablopk wrote:
You are correct. It would have been awkward and probably offensive. Your name is incredible though. However; I do have to say My Aussie accent is actually better than my Italian one.


I don't know if you've watched Derry Girls, but this very much reminds me of one episode. (If you haven't watched it: it's available in the US on Netflix, is very funny, 6 30-minute episodes, and turn on subtitles despite it being in English.)
 
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As a native English speaker that studied German, the best hint that helped me to remember how to pronounce "ie or ei" combinations is to pronounce the second letter in the combination. In English (in general) we will pronounce the first letter in the "ie or ei" combination, which is why so many English speakers pronounce "die" as "dye". If we use the above hint, we can see that English speakers should be pronouncing the second letter in the "ie" combination which would result in the correct German pronunciation of "dee". This is why Spiel is pronounced "speel" and why Tiefen is pronounced "teefen". Hopefully, this hint helps the English speakers.
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iluv68 wrote:
As a native English speaker that studied German, the best hint that helped me to remember how to pronounce "ie or ei" combinations is to pronounce the second letter in the combination. In English (in general) we will pronounce the first letter in the "ie or ei" combination, which is why so many English speakers pronounce "die" as "dye". If we use the above hint, we can see that English speakers should be pronouncing the second letter in the "ie" combination which would result in the correct German pronunciation of "dee". This is why Spiel is pronounced "speel" and why Tiefen is pronounced "teefen". Hopefully, this hint helps the English speakers.
Hah, that's a really neat mnemonic! thumbsup
I never noticed that!

(Of course, to a German speaker, it's not pronouncing the 2nd letter -- English just has shifted the pronounciation of vocals compared to most continental European languages (that I know). In "ie", in German you're actually pronouncing the first letter (like in "bid", for example), the "e" is just there to make it long -- not terribly logical in itself. Whereas in "ei", you pronounce both vowels, one after the other "ee-ii", but a little bit shifted in sound, so it's actually more like "aa-ii".
Languages are weird.)
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