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The 7th Continent» Forums » Rules

Subject: and/or question rss

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Erik Clark
United States
Arkansas
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Sorry - sure this is answered somewhere just couldnt find it.

When the card says like -2 and/or STAR STAR WITH 7 does that mean you can use both the reduction in action cards AND both stars (if the 7 is applicable) or do you have to pick one bonus to apply?

Thanks again.

 
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Ronald Tin
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When the effect is A and/or B you can choose
1. A only
2. B only
3. A and B

I thought it should be quite obvious though...
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Jorgen Peddersen
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You can choose to have the first effect, the second effect or both effects.
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Rob McArthur
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ANd believe it or not, you’ll find times when you want it ‘or’ and times you’ll want it ‘and’
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Erik Clark
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Gotcha - wasnt sure why they would put OR in there so was just wondering.

Thanks Rob.


 
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Hank Heyming
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Wait. Let me get this straight. Are you saying that the idiosyncratic combination of words used by this "game", for example, the phrase "and/or", should be read to have the exact same meaning as the logical operation that uses the exact same phrasing? Man, mind blown.
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Ronald Tin
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For this particular card, you usually want both because it is not a bad thing to have more stars than necessary and you can draw more cards.

However, if you perform a locked action, you have to draw exactly that number of cards, and -2 may be a bad thing.

I don’t yet know why I would want to have fewer stars, though.
 
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Aaron Bredon
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There are some actions where it is better to fail, or that you want to fail at.

Lovecraft's Wild Imagination for one.
 
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Ted William
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hankheyming wrote:
Wait. Let me get this straight. Are you saying that the idiosyncratic combination of words used by this "game", for example, the phrase "and/or", should be read to have the exact same meaning as the logical operation that uses the exact same phrasing? Man, mind blown.
This is what makes this game so fantastic, especially the first time you play.

You feel like you've woken up, slightly feverish and are in the middle of some game. You have no idea where you are, why you are there or what you're supposed to do. You have doubts about whether semantics or the rules of logic apply anymore and you wonder if you're going mad...
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John K
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It’s probably a typo. What they mean is your choice of AND/XOR. Logical OR includes both. (A and B) or (A or B) = A or B
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Ted William
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Actually, there would be many times where I would not want the -2 because I want to be sure of success (and draw more Action cards, not less) but I would want the extra star. In context, it's a reasonable choice offering.

Again, when you first start playing the game, you feel so confused that everything is a challenge and nothing is quite as you expected it to be...
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Ben
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There are even a few cases where you don't want to succeed, so -2 is a great way of not wasting cards.
 
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Hank Heyming
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perzquixle wrote:
It’s probably a typo. What they mean is your choice of AND/XOR. Logical OR includes both. (A and B) or (A or B) = A or B
Are you sure he didn't mean XAND/OR?
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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perzquixle wrote:
It’s probably a typo. What they mean is your choice of AND/XOR. Logical OR includes both. (A and B) or (A or B) = A or B
While I definitely get the logical gag here, it is probably worth pointing out that games text including this almost always want you to interpret the word 'or' via its exclusive interpretation.

If the instruction were '-2 cards OR +1 star', then you would have to choose one or the other. Using logical terminology, doing both would make the statement evaluate to 'true', but that is not what you are trying to do. The instruction instead indicates to do one or the other, but not both nor neither.

Thus, if applying logical reasoning, you should most occurrences of 'or' with an 'xor'.
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Bitchy Little Boy
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... I am disgusted and disappointed, but I still want to believe people can be honest and sensible.
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Clipper wrote:
perzquixle wrote:
It’s probably a typo. What they mean is your choice of AND/XOR. Logical OR includes both. (A and B) or (A or B) = A or B
While I definitely get the logical gag here, it is probably worth pointing out that games text including this almost always want you to interpret the word 'or' via its exclusive interpretation.

If the instruction were '-2 cards OR +1 star', then you would have to choose one or the other. Using logical terminology, doing both would make the statement evaluate to 'true', but that is not what you are trying to do. The instruction instead indicates to do one or the other, but not both nor neither.

Thus, if applying logical reasoning, you should most occurrences of 'or' with an 'xor'.

When I was in school in my country mathematical logic was an optional chapter in the algebra book hardly anybody studied or even read. Computer science was even more niche. I am not convinced a lot of BGG-members got to be familiar with its jargon. On the other hand, natural languages embrace the benefit redundancy (the use of negatives in educated English is one of the rare exceptions), as it improves the effectiveness of the communication.

So, I would rather have "either... or..." and "and/or" than a confusing "or" that different people will interpret in conflicting ways.
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Alessio Massuoli
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Are you serious guys?

and/or is perfectly fine, and it also carries the same semantics in natural language. Don't overthink this.

and/or is actually one of the conventional ways of referencing inclusive or (among others, multiplication symbol, lowercase v, double pipe, Latin VEL or, well, just OR.
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Jack Spirio
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There are also cards which have an or without an and, there you have to decide what to take
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Alessio Massuoli
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Jack Spirio wrote:
There are also cards which have an or without an and, there you have to decide what to take

That is more logically inconsistent But yes, there are a few - "you can have A or B, but not both".
 
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Joshua Simone [The Quasi Geek Dad]
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I personally wish there were nested if else statements to help my understanding.
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David Isenor
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DeadMoney wrote:
I personally wish there were nested if else statements to help my understanding.

Do nested if else statements help anyone's understanding? Just don't nest them too deep.
 
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