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Subject: Question about an item rss

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Krešimir Kovač
Croatia
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During our game yesterday we came across an item with durability of 1, with no keywords, that said, this item does NOT lose durability, but bellow it's effect it said, if you use this discard it (or banish it, not sure, does not matter).
So i am a bit confused.
If i use the item, it gets discarded, what is the point of the does NOT lose durability text?

Only thing i can think of is if it is part of the stack, and if i use the other items in it, down to 0, they get discarded, but this item stays as durability of 1 still? While other items in this stack get discarded?

I would end up with the said item, with no keywords, as a solo item with 1 durability.

I can still add items to this stack? But with no keywords, it would stay on 1 durability, witch seems like a waste.
 
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Geert O
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If you add this item to a stack, and you want to use this item, you don't lower the durability of the item stack, but instead discard this card (and keep the rest of the stack untouched).

freakzoid wrote:
Only thing i can think of is if it is part of the stack, and if i use the other items in it, down to 0, they get discarded, but this item stays as durability of 1 still? While other items in this stack get discarded?

This is not true. If the durability of an item stack goes down to 0, all cards are discarded, including the item you described above.
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Robin Zigmond
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You're dead right that such items (there are quite a few you can randomly find while exploring) are more or less useless as the top card of a stack. So put it in another stack if you can - here the "doesn't lower durability" rule really helps.

If you don't have another stack you can put it in (as happened to me recently when I found one of these as the first action of the game), then I recommend trying to use it as quickly as possible, and certainly don't stack anything else under it. (Actually stacking one card under is ok provided you don't use that one before you use and discard the top one.)
 
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Krešimir Kovač
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Quote:
If you add this item to a stack, and you want to use this item, you don't lower the durability of the item stack, but instead discard this card (and keep the rest of the stack untouched).
Aha, i get the does not lose durability bit now.

But that raises a new question.
If that item has, say unlock icon on it, and the item stack i added it to also has unlock in it, can i use both unlock symbols for the price of discarding the item, and not losing durability of the original item stack?

Effectively i used an item in that stack that has unlock in it for "free", as the stack did not lose durability.
 
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Robin Zigmond
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If you use any other ability from that stack, you do have to lower the durability.
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Lucien Copus
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robinz wrote:
If you use any other ability from that stack, you do have to lower the durability.

I'm not sure that's true, I think you get to use matching brown icons on other cards in the same item for free. Can't remember a source though so wouldn't swear to it.
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Jack Spirio
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Ogrecrusher wrote:
robinz wrote:
If you use any other ability from that stack, you do have to lower the durability.

I'm not sure that's true, I think you get to use matching brown icons on other cards in the same item for free. Can't remember a source though so wouldn't swear to it.
No, you only do not pay if you really only use that item.
If you want to use anything else from the same stack, you need to reduce a pip
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Lucien Copus
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Jack Spirio wrote:
Ogrecrusher wrote:
robinz wrote:
If you use any other ability from that stack, you do have to lower the durability.

I'm not sure that's true, I think you get to use matching brown icons on other cards in the same item for free. Can't remember a source though so wouldn't swear to it.
No, you only do not pay if you really only use that item.
If you want to use anything else from the same stack, you need to reduce a pip

Fine, make me look up a source

https://the7thcontinent.seriouspoulp.com/en/forum/topic/990/...

"When an Item card – the “Sharp stone” for instance – states “Using this does not lower the durability of the item.”, then, as long as you use at least 1 effect of this card, you don’t have to lower the durability of the item it’s part of.

So, let’s say you fight with an Item “Club” combined with a “Sharp stone”, you reduce the durability of the Item if YOU DO NOT use your sharp stone, and you DO NOT reduce the durability of the item if you use at least 1 effect of your Sharp Stone (which is therefore discarded)."
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Jack Spirio
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Thank you
Seems I was wrong
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David Isenor
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Jack Spirio wrote:
Thank you
Seems I was wrong

You're not alone!

It never occurred to me that this would be the correct answer.
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Curtiss Cox
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disenor wrote:
Jack Spirio wrote:
Thank you
Seems I was wrong

You're not alone!

It never occurred to me that this would be the correct answer.

Wow same here. 100+ hours in this game and still learning new tricks.
 
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ImDarK
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Wow i discovered that too ! Thank you so much i was playing it wrong for so much time !
 
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Robin Zigmond
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Yes thanks, that is massively counterintuitive and totally the opposite of how I was playing!
 
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Lucien Copus
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The real counter intuitive part is that those items basically break the flow of the action phase.

Typically you lower durability, then draw cards, then decide which item benefits you're using.

These items force you to decide in advance if you're going to use the "doesn't lower durability" card or not, before drawing.

A bit like how the fireplace discount breaks the movement flow. Normally you check for success, then decide where to move. But if you're moving to a fire and getting a discount for it, you have to declare the movement destination before the draw in order to active the -card draw.

Weird things.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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I recall thinking the same things back when that ruling was made, Lucien.

I feel the same way about the recent ruling regarding Flying Roots during movement after we got the one that two Roots appearing together don't affect each other.

In both situations, while it's easy to apply the rulings, they still seem to be at odds with other rulings when trying to logically find a consistent reasoning to them.
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Randal Divinski
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I think the idea behind the ruling is that if you pay the full cost for using any component of an item, you can use any other relevant component (card) of that item at no extra cost. Usually the cost paid is a pip, but if it is something else (e.g. discard) the general rule still applies.
 
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Jack Spirio
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Clipper wrote:
I recall thinking the same things back when that ruling was made, Lucien.

I feel the same way about the recent ruling regarding Flying Roots during movement after we got the one that two Roots appearing together don't affect each other.

In both situations, while it's easy to apply the rulings, they still seem to be at odds with other rulings when trying to logically find a consistent reasoning to them.
the root rules actually make a lot of sense if you follow the cards exactly
 
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David Isenor
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Ogrecrusher wrote:
The real counter intuitive part is that those items basically break the flow of the action phase.

Typically you lower durability, then draw cards, then decide which item benefits you're using.

These items force you to decide in advance if you're going to use the "doesn't lower durability" card or not, before drawing.

A bit like how the fireplace discount breaks the movement flow. Normally you check for success, then decide where to move. But if you're moving to a fire and getting a discount for it, you have to declare the movement destination before the draw in order to active the -card draw.

Weird things.

This has been bothering me for a while, but I've seen no discussion on it. Good thing this is a coop a d it doesn't really affect anyone.
 
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Aaron Bredon
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Ogrecrusher wrote:
The real counter intuitive part is that those items basically break the flow of the action phase.

Typically you lower durability, then draw cards, then decide which item benefits you're using.

These items force you to decide in advance if you're going to use the "doesn't lower durability" card or not, before drawing.

A bit like how the fireplace discount breaks the movement flow. Normally you check for success, then decide where to move. But if you're moving to a fire and getting a discount for it, you have to declare the movement destination before the draw in order to active the -card draw.

Weird things.

You decide if you will be using an item first (lower durability or declare you are using a discard on use card), then you draw cards , then apply results.

Notice that the decision to use the item always comes first. If you lower durability then don't use any of the effects, you don't get the durability back.

Same with the fire/other player discount for walking - you have to declare first. Note that you could change your mind about which fire/player to move to after the check.
In general, this doesn't change much, as few moves require successes, and you generally don't change where you are going mid-action.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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abredon wrote:
You decide if you will be using an item first (lower durability or declare you are using a discard on use card), then you draw cards , then apply results.

Notice that the decision to use the item always comes first. If you lower durability then don't use any of the effects, you don't get the durability back.
However, you can lower the durability of a non-free discard-on-use card (e.g., Bolas), and then decide not to use the discard on use card as you didn't need it. If it is a free discard-on-use card, you are already committed to discarding it and you cannot save it. The difference in the text doesn't explain why you can choose to end up saving one card but not the other.

Quote:
Same with the fire/other player discount for walking - you have to declare first. Note that you could change your mind about which fire/player to move to after the check.
In general, this doesn't change much, as few moves require successes, and you generally don't change where you are going mid-action.
This is really the only action where you make a choice about the consequence step before reaching the consequence step, though. Yes, it's easy enough to figure out, but it makes the action different to every other action in the game.

Both of these cases are thus just a little odd. They aren't contradictory, but they aren't consistent with the other actions either.
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Aaron Bredon
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Clipper wrote:
abredon wrote:
You decide if you will be using an item first (lower durability or declare you are using a discard on use card), then you draw cards , then apply results.

Notice that the decision to use the item always comes first. If you lower durability then don't use any of the effects, you don't get the durability back.
However, you can lower the durability of a non-free discard-on-use card (e.g., Bolas), and then decide not to use the discard on use card as you didn't need it. If it is a free discard-on-use card, you are already committed to discarding it and you cannot save it. The difference in the text doesn't explain why you can choose to end up saving one card but not the other.

You have to pay the cost before the action:
Bolas: reduce durability - you don't have to use any ability, but you can't get the durability back. The cost is 1 durability.
Discard-on-use that doesn't reduce durability - you don't have to use the ability, but you can't NOT discard. Note: if you have 2 don't reduce durability cards in the same stack, you can discard either of them if you didn't use an ability. The cost is 1 discard of a "doesn't reduce durability" card.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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But where in the game does it tell us that 'doesn't reduce durability' means you must use the rest of the card too? There is magic stuff about this text which is not written anywhere. The way you process these is slightly inconsistent with other cards.

I hope in the last case you provide (two such cards) that you are making the choice of which to definitely discard beforehand. If you could make the choice in the Results Step, that'd be another inconsistency.
 
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Robin Zigmond
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I think I'm just not going to make any attempt to remember this ruling, and go on playing as I have been: that using any other ability does require reducing the durability. I guess that makes the game slightly harder, but it makes so much more sense that way, especially from having read the ensuing discussion.
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Lucien Copus
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It doesn't come up often, but I consider the free use a reward for planning your items well.

 
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