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Subject: Interpretation of green {206} A0637 rss

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Stephan Beal
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i'm looking to confirm the interpretation of one of the green 206 cards - A0637...

The relevant snippet from the card:

Spoiler (click to reveal)


i can interpret that 2 different ways:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
1) This card provides up to 2 energy points for each of the listed resource when crafting items.

OR:

2) If the listed resources are available when undertaking the action shown on the left, each one provides 2 energy points for that specific action.


i've always taken interpretation 1 because interpretation 2 can only apply
Spoiler (click to reveal)
if those resources are available, none of which can apply unless an event card attached to that space provides the resource (but that's only even remotely possible if we reset the board from here (save/load), as there's only one way out of this space)


But interpretation 1 seems wrong once
Spoiler (click to reveal)
the camp is built (replacing this card with a gold 206) because that gold 206 only provides Wood and Leaf resources, rather than 5 different resources


Is there a 3rd interpretation i'm missing, or is the 2nd interpretation somehow correct (which seems impossible (or typically-7C trollish), since its condition cannot happen(?) except under 1-in-a-million circumstances)?
 
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Fabian R
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It's 2. Let's just say there's ways you can bring resources with you, but the game doesn't open them to you on every corner.
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Duncan MacGregor
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I'm at work so don't have my set to hand, but I think I can work this out.

This is not a modifier to crafting actions, modifier icons are white on a brown background. This icon is black on a white icon and so it an action with a cost of 10+, and zero required successes.

If it's a permanent event card then it is attached to a terrain card, and that would be the source of the resources, along with any other cards in players hands which might also contribute.
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Stephan Beal
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Lachpost wrote:
It's 2. Let's just say there's ways you can bring resources with you, but the game doesn't open them to you on every corner.

So... yeah, the typically-7C trolling 1-in-a-million interpretation .
 
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paul piotrowski
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sgbeal wrote:
Lachpost wrote:
It's 2. Let's just say there's ways you can bring resources with you, but the game doesn't open them to you on every corner.

So... yeah, the typically-7C trolling 1-in-a-million interpretation .

plus some blue cards allow you to use the ressources from next map
 
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Stephan Beal
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aardvark179 wrote:
This icon is black on a white icon

It's not clear without comparing a different card which provides resources, but the icon/background used here is actually identical to the one which means "provides resource", thus my confusion on the interpretation.
 
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Stephan Beal
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Littleusher wrote:
plus some blue cards allow you to use the ressources from next map

That i didn't know - i have not run into any of those particular Advanced Skills yet (or may have, but my last session was 20 months ago and my memory isn't anywhere near that long).
 
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Robin Zigmond
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It's supposed to be expensive to build the camp. Firstly it's thematic, secondly the benefits of doing so turn out to be really good (provided you'll regularly cross this territory, it's great in a multi curse run, and in some of the longer and more "aimless" base game curses).

There are also a variety of ways of reducing that cost, aside from permanent event cards:
- some items provide a building material. There are quite a few of these that you can find while exploring
- your basic deck contains two -3 cards and a -2. Some cards also give a discount while constructing (eg the item Frankenstein has in his starting deck)
- if you're playing with 2 or more players (I don't, but I'll mention it anyway) you can choose to convert that 10/0 into say a 6/4, or whatever ratio best suits the cards you have in your hands and inventories.

So yes it's not something you want to build every game, but there are plenty of ways to do so without spending anywhere near 10 cards. And as I said, in a long campaign I'd argue even 10 cards is usually worth it.
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Stephan Beal
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robinz wrote:
It's supposed to be expensive to build the camp. Firstly it's thematic, secondly the benefits of doing so turn out to be really good (provided you'll regularly cross this territory, it's great in a multi curse run, and in some of the longer and more "aimless" base game curses).

i don't plan on staying here but i built it because i thought i remembered
Spoiler (click to reveal)
being able to get the Goat here
, but that turned out to be incorrect :`(.

robinz wrote:
- your basic deck contains two -3 cards and a -2.

That was the route the party went with. The "Teamwork" skill provides a Mastery effect allowed us to recycle the cards we had to draw, so it was cheap to build.

robinz wrote:
- if you're playing with 2 or more players (I don't, but I'll mention it anyway) you can choose to convert that 10/0 into say a 6/4, or whatever ratio best suits the cards you have in your hands and inventories.

i play solo with multiple characters, but i admittedly always forget that particular option because it's so rare that i'd want to increase the difficulty. This specific case would have been a great use of that :|. (Just FYI: the new Phileas & Jean character has that ability even when he's alone.)
 
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Randal Divinski
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sgbeal wrote:
robinz wrote:
- if you're playing with 2 or more players (I don't, but I'll mention it anyway) you can choose to convert that 10/0 into say a 6/4, or whatever ratio best suits the cards you have in your hands and inventories.
i play solo with multiple characters, but i admittedly always forget that particular option because it's so rare that i'd want to increase the difficulty. This specific case would have been a great use of that :|. (Just FYI: the new Phileas & Jean character has that ability even when he's alone.)
In my experience, all two-player with my wife, that option is fundamental to survival. I would estimate saving 20+ cards over the course of an adventure -- especially when you have a "rescue" card in hand to provide extra success contingently. (That is, you take a little risk to reduce card costs, but have a back up plan in case of a bad draw.)
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Stephan Beal
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randiv wrote:
In my experience, all two-player with my wife, that option is fundamental to survival. I would estimate saving 20+ cards over the course of an adventure -- especially when you have a "rescue" card in hand to provide extra success contingently. (That is, you take a little risk to reduce card costs, but have a back up plan in case of a bad draw.)

A fundamental game design problem with "highly situational" rules is that they're easily forgotten when the possibility (or requirement) to apply them arises :/. This is especially problematic in solo play, where there is but a single mind involved with its own narrow/rigid world view. In games with multiple players, each approaching the problem from their own viewpoints, i suspect that this particular option doesn't get overlooked all that often (but have no experience with multiple players, so it's just a suspicion).
 
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Jack Spirio
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Often you have an item which gives you a -1 and and a star

So a 2/0 Action can be converted to a 1/1 and done for free
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Robin Zigmond
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Jack Spirio wrote:
Often you have an item which gives you a -1 and and a star

So a 2/0 Action can be converted to a 1/1 and done for free

That's probably usually the right choice, but it's not free. You have to reduce the durability of the item.

Of course if the ability comes from one of those cards that every character has and provides the bonus simply by being in hand, *that* is free. (There's still a cost to having it in hand - which I find almost always worth "paying" - but if you have it in hand already when the action comes up, it's free at that point.)
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Raphaël Langella
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sgbeal wrote:
A fundamental game design problem with "highly situational"
It's not "highly situational", it's quite common to use.
 
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Stephan Beal
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galehar wrote:
sgbeal wrote:
A fundamental game design problem with "highly situational"
It's not "highly situational", it's quite common to use.

One time in 5 or 8 or 10 qualifies as "highly situational" in my vocabulary. If a rule/effect applies less than 50% of the time then it's almost 100% certain that i'll forget to apply it.
 
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Alessio Massuoli
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Since the question has been long answered, we are discussing nothing relevant, but I vehemently oppose this definition of highly situational.

I want to make an example: I play both 7thC and KDM with my wife.

In a session of 7thC lasting two hours, we would use that rule at least the 12 times that would qualify it as "once in ten minutes minutes". We would use less the rule about being 'bloody' when hunting, and I wouldn't say that is highly situational. I'd say it's commonplace.

In KDM, deciding to bring an Almanac with you is "highly situational", ie. you can not do it for months, until you find that particular build in that particular hunt that makes it worth it.

Highly situational is a term I would use to describe something that would happen once or twice in an entire campaign/curse, meaning "it is usually not worth it, but under these specific, rare circumstances, it is okay".
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Jack Spirio
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robinz wrote:
Jack Spirio wrote:
Often you have an item which gives you a -1 and and a star

So a 2/0 Action can be converted to a 1/1 and done for free

That's probably usually the right choice, but it's not free. You have to reduce the durability of the item.

Of course if the ability comes from one of those cards that every character has and provides the bonus simply by being in hand, *that* is free. (There's still a cost to having it in hand - which I find almost always worth "paying" - but if you have it in hand already when the action comes up, it's free at that point.)
but if you were using the item anyway, you could only get it down to 1/0 without that ability. Which would mean that 1/1 would have been better than 2/0 in that case.

Or if we look at the camp itself.
It gives you a -1/+2 Bonus for various stuff like resting and the option to rest with an 2/0 action. So solo you need to always draw a card. But multiplayer you change it to 1/1 or even 0/2 and succeed automatically.
That means you can rest there as much as you want for free.
 
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Aron R
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sgbeal wrote:
galehar wrote:
sgbeal wrote:
A fundamental game design problem with "highly situational"
It's not "highly situational", it's quite common to use.

One time in 5 or 8 or 10 qualifies as "highly situational" in my vocabulary. If a rule/effect applies less than 50% of the time then it's almost 100% certain that i'll forget to apply it.

Note that even when playing solo, you can have multiple characters. I've played the game half a dozen times so far, and most have been solo plays. I haven't yet tried the game with one character only, however.

In my experience (with multiple characters), this rule comes up *EVERY SINGLE SKILL TEST*; I'm always analyzing whether I can use the option to trade a reduction in cards drawn for more stars required for success. It's practically the first thing analyzed, after determining what test is required and what possible modifiers your equipment can grant.

In my opinion, this rule could only be considered "highly situational" in the context that the option to use only one character is considered "highly situational."
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Stephan Beal
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AronR wrote:
Note that even when playing solo, you can have multiple characters. I've played the game half a dozen times so far, and most have been solo plays. I haven't yet tried the game with one character only, however.


i always play with 3 because that allows the most cards in hand/inventory.

AronR wrote:
In my experience (with multiple characters), this rule comes up *EVERY SINGLE SKILL TEST*;


In roughly 40 hours of play i've remembered to check this feature exactly twice and only used it one of those two times.
 
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Jack Spirio
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sgbeal wrote:
AronR wrote:
In my experience (with multiple characters), this rule comes up *EVERY SINGLE SKILL TEST*;


In roughly 40 hours of play i've remembered to check this feature exactly twice and only used it one of those two times.
that seems to be your fault not the games one
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