Telcontar Thorongil
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As the subject says, if i have a foggy exploration card adjacent to a terrain in which my PJ stands, but there is not an arrow pointing to the exploration card (which has been placed from another terrain).. can i flip it or i need to navigate to a terrain card who points to the exploration card?
 
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Chris Adams
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Telcontarvi wrote:
As the subject says, if i have a foggy exploration card adjacent to a terrain in which my PJ stands, but there is not an arrow pointing to the exploration card (which has been placed from another terrain).. can i flip it or i need to navigate to a terrain card who points to the exploration card?


If there isn't an explore action pointing from the your current tile to the exploration card, you cannot explore in that direction. This would usually represent some sort of impassable terrain (e.g. dense jungle, cliffs) preventing you from moving in that direction. To explore it, you would have to move to a card that points directly to the card.

Turns out the official FAQ indicates this is the wrong answer. You are able to explore as long as the arrows pointing from the exploration card point to the terrain you are on, regardless of whether there is an arrow from your terrain card.
 
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Branko K.
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Telcontarvi wrote:
As the subject says, if i have a foggy exploration card adjacent to a terrain in which my PJ stands, but there is not an arrow pointing to the exploration card (which has been placed from another terrain).. can i flip it or i need to navigate to a terrain card who points to the exploration card?


Yes,you can explore it since an arrow from that exploration card points towards your terrain tile.

Also I'm pretty sure this is the third thread asking this question.

Edit: and people are apparently still providing wrong answers.

Here's a recent thread discussing this issue:

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/32275286
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Robin Zigmond
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baba44713 wrote:
Telcontarvi wrote:
As the subject says, if i have a foggy exploration card adjacent to a terrain in which my PJ stands, but there is not an arrow pointing to the exploration card (which has been placed from another terrain).. can i flip it or i need to navigate to a terrain card who points to the exploration card?


Yes,you can explore it since an arrow from that exploration card points towards your terrain tile.

Also I'm pretty sure this is the third thread asking this question.

Edit: and people are apparently still providing wrong answers.


QFT
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Jack Spirio
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nofixedabode wrote:
Telcontarvi wrote:
As the subject says, if i have a foggy exploration card adjacent to a terrain in which my PJ stands, but there is not an arrow pointing to the exploration card (which has been placed from another terrain).. can i flip it or i need to navigate to a terrain card who points to the exploration card?


If there isn't an explore action pointing from the your current tile to the exploration card, you cannot explore in that direction. This would usually represent some sort of impassable terrain (e.g. dense jungle, cliffs) preventing you from moving in that direction. To explore it, you would have to move to a card that points directly to the card.
This is wrong
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Telcontar Thorongil
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baba44713 wrote:
Telcontarvi wrote:
As the subject says, if i have a foggy exploration card adjacent to a terrain in which my PJ stands, but there is not an arrow pointing to the exploration card (which has been placed from another terrain).. can i flip it or i need to navigate to a terrain card who points to the exploration card?


Yes,you can explore it since an arrow from that exploration card points towards your terrain tile.

Also I'm pretty sure this is the third thread asking this question.

Edit: and people are apparently still providing wrong answers.

Here's a recent thread discussing this issue:

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/32275286


Thx for the response
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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baba44713 wrote:
Also I'm pretty sure this is the third thread asking this question.

It's the third in the last month or so.

It's probably about the tenth asking this question.
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Branko K.
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Clipper wrote:
baba44713 wrote:
Also I'm pretty sure this is the third thread asking this question.

It's the third in the last month or so.

It's probably about the tenth asking this question.


At least this game doesn't require multiple core sets.
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Tim Franklin
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baba44713 wrote:
At least this game doesn't require multiple core sets.


Don't cross the streams!
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Humberto Villela
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Official answer here:

https://the7thcontinent.seriouspoulp.com/en/forum/topic/425/...

P.S.: A while ago I was wrong about it just like the first fellow geek to reply to the OP.
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Chris Adams
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humbas wrote:
Official answer here:

https://the7thcontinent.seriouspoulp.com/en/forum/topic/425/...

P.S.: A while ago I was wrong about it just like the first fellow geek to reply to the OP.


I hadn't seen the FAQ, so wasn't aware there was an official ruling on this. I read the text "(point towards the Terrain card that caused the Exploration card to be put into play)" to mean we only consider matching arrows.
 
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Jack Spirio
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nofixedabode wrote:
humbas wrote:
Official answer here:

https://the7thcontinent.seriouspoulp.com/en/forum/topic/425/...

P.S.: A while ago I was wrong about it just like the first fellow geek to reply to the OP.


I hadn't seen the FAQ, so wasn't aware there was an official ruling on this. I read the text "(point towards the Terrain card that caused the Exploration card to be put into play)" to mean we only consider matching arrows.
you should maybe change your original post.
Each gold arrow gives the whole card to the terrain it is attached, and you can be attached to any card no matter if that card has a small arrow pointing back.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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nofixedabode wrote:
I hadn't seen the FAQ, so wasn't aware there was an official ruling on this. I read the text "(point towards the Terrain card that caused the Exploration card to be put into play)" to mean we only consider matching arrows.

Before we got the official ruling, I argued the same point as to what the ruling that best matches the rules would be.

It is also why I choose not to explore in situations like that. I'm still playing by the rules, I could choose to take the action, but my explorers simply refuse to pathfind over an edge that doesn't have an arrow.
 
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Branko K.
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Clipper wrote:
nofixedabode wrote:
I hadn't seen the FAQ, so wasn't aware there was an official ruling on this. I read the text "(point towards the Terrain card that caused the Exploration card to be put into play)" to mean we only consider matching arrows.

Before we got the official ruling, I argued the same point as to what the ruling that best matches the rules would be.

It is also why I choose not to explore in situations like that. I'm still playing by the rules, I could choose to take the action, but my explorers simply refuse to pathfind over an edge that doesn't have an arrow.


Just unsleeve them and then threaten them with a glass of juice, that will do the trick.
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Adam
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Telcontarvi wrote:
As the subject says, if i have a foggy exploration card adjacent to a terrain in which my PJ stands, but there is not an arrow pointing to the exploration card (which has been placed from another terrain).. can i flip it or i need to navigate to a terrain card who points to the exploration card?


I love to pick apart the rules as much as anyone here, but I can't really understand the confusion on this point. The roles are very consistent with regard to permanent events.

A gold arrow indicates a permanent event that is attached to a particular terrain card. The foggy-backed cards all have 4-way gold arrows, indicating they are accessible to all terrain tiles to which they are adjacent.

In that regard, they are no different than any other gold arrow/permanent event card that would be triggered by a terrain card. The only difference is that terrain cards are engineered to be context specific, whereas the foggy backed cards are, by their nature, random and generic and therefore could never be customized to be accessible to a specific tile.
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Chris Adams
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schleima wrote:
I love to pick apart the rules as much as anyone here, but I can't really understand the confusion on this point. The roles are very consistent with regard to permanent events.


The confusion, for me at least, comes specifically from the rule I had quoted. If that rule isn't there to indicate that the permanent event arrows on the Exploration card are only meant to "point towards the Terrain card that caused the Exploration card to be put into play", then there's no reason for that rule to exist at all since the arrows on the Exploration point towards all adjacent Terrain cards.
 
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Adam
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nofixedabode wrote:
schleima wrote:
I love to pick apart the rules as much as anyone here, but I can't really understand the confusion on this point. The roles are very consistent with regard to permanent events.


The confusion, for me at least, comes specifically from the rule I had quoted. If that rule isn't there to indicate that the permanent event arrows on the Exploration card are only meant to "point towards the Terrain card that caused the Exploration card to be put into play", then there's no reason for that rule to exist at all since the arrows on the Exploration point towards all adjacent Terrain cards.


Think about it this way- the foggy-backed card is NOT part of the terrain tile that it hides.

Per the rules governing permanent events (indicated by gold chevrons), permanent events are a part **of the card the gold chevrons are pointing to**. For example, hunting grounds (like all permanent events) have gold chevrons that point back to the card they're a part of.

That means that they're absolutely not a part of the card they're hiding, which means accessibility to the hidden terrain card underneath (from the terrain card you're standing on) is completely irrelevant, thematically or otherwise.
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Branko K.
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Thematically, you could be surveying the terrain from a cliff without having means to access it.
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Chris Adams
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schleima wrote:
Per the rules governing permanent events (indicated by gold chevrons), permanent events are a part **of the card the gold chevrons are pointing to**. For example, hunting grounds (like all permanent events) have gold chevrons that point back to the card they're a part of.

They're absolutely not a part of the card they're hiding, which means accessibility to the hidden card underneath (from the terrain card you're standing on) is completely irrelevant, thematically or otherwise.


I concede that I was playing incorrectly, and that the official FAQ says that exploration cards are in fact attached to adjacent terrain cards. I also agree that Permanent event cards which come out of the Adventure Deck are absolutely attached to the Terrain card they point to.

I do not, however, agree that the rules themselves make it explicitly clear that Exploration cards are attached to all adjacent Terrain cards. As mentioned previously, there is a rule for Exploration cards which indicates that the arrows point to the revealing Terrain card. This would make an Exploration card a special case of a Permanent event, where not all arrows are relevant in all cases.

Here's another rule, directly in the description of Exploration cards: "Each Exploration card belongs to the area of the continent represented by the Roman numeral (I, II, III, IV, etc.) shown on the back of the card and on the Terrain card it is attached to." This very clearly sets out that Exploration cards are attached to Terrain cards with Roman numerals on them. Again, this makes Exploration cards a special case of Permanent event.

Finally, the rule that "Exploration cards must bear the same Roman numeral as the Terrain card they are attached to" is included 3 separate times: pages 9, 14 and 18. While this doesn't definitively say that they don't attach without Roman numerals, I suggest it supports the view that they are part of the attachment.

I write all of this with the understanding that my reading of the rules does not conform that what the designers intended as clarified in the FAQ, but I cannot find anything within the rules themselves that actually contradicts it.
 
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Jack Spirio
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There are often cases where Thisbe is not true (on the borders of the area types, so the rules are indeed not good written here.
There are cases where different cards point to the same exploration card, but with different Roman Numerals, but as the card is already there you can still explore it from any card that is next to it, even if it has a different Roman number on it.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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The issue with thematically describing this is that you can survey the land now when you couldn't before. So while you couldn't see what lay to the South at first, you found a path through other terrain cards so that the card to the South-West of the original card now let's you check out the terrain card.

Now, for some reason, an explorer on the original card can explore to the South even though it was impossible before. How can you thematically explain this?

Please don't think I'm arguing against the ruling or anything, though. I am just addressing the thematic viewpoint. Although there were rules that somewhat implied you couldn't explore across the arrowless boundaries, the golden arrow rules were also in contradiction. They decided to go with the simple answer to ignore the implications of the other rules and just apply the golden arrow rule and that's totally fine. We all understand that, but that doesn't mean we were wrong to imply things from the other rules prior to knowing about the ruling.



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Graham Robinson
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Clipper wrote:
The issue with thematically describing this is that you can survey the land now when you couldn't before. So while you couldn't see what lay to the South at first, you found a path through other terrain cards so that the card to the South-West of the original card now let's you check out the terrain card.

Now, for some reason, an explorer on the original card can explore to the South even though it was impossible before. How can you thematically explain this?


You've never failed to recognise something from one angle, then look from a different angle, and then suddenly, it is totally clear from the original angle?

Cheers,
Graham
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Jorgen Peddersen
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therealbuserian wrote:
You've never failed to recognise something from one angle, then look from a different angle, and then suddenly, it is totally clear from the original angle?

Cheers,
Graham


That sounds like you explored from the other angle so the terrain card would be present there.

You're trying to tell me that I failed to recognise it from one angle, walk around it to another angle but choose not to look from there, then go back to the original angle and now it is totally clear.
 
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Aaron Bredon
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Clipper wrote:
therealbuserian wrote:
You've never failed to recognise something from one angle, then look from a different angle, and then suddenly, it is totally clear from the original angle?

Cheers,
Graham


That sounds like you explored from the other angle so the terrain card would be present there.

You're trying to tell me that I failed to recognise it from one angle, walk around it to another angle but choose not to look from there, then go back to the original angle and now it is totally clear.


Hey Look there - that's the cliff we were on top of the other day. There's a trail leading all the way up to the top - right near that tall tree!

Although you aren't heading to the bottom of the cliff from where you are, somewhat later, at the top of the cliff again, you take the trail down.
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