Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
12 Posts

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Board Game Design » Design Queries and Problems

Subject: Concerned about Table Space... rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Ethan Fisher
Japan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I am a little concerned about the table space required to play the current version of my work in progress:Mage Spire

Is there a general rule of thumb when it comes to what is considered an acceptable table requirement for each player?

In this game, players work to build and ever growing tower. The current rendition has the tower floor tiles as heavy cardboard punch-outs which connect together via subtle bumps on the top and bottom.

There is no central game board, but some central supply decks and "stores" from which the players must all be able to access.

Towers are built from each persons personal tableau.

In a game, I expect players to use up to about 15 tiles for a completed tower. If each tile is 3cm x 10cm, and you consider Level Up tiles, that puts the average tower at about 45cm...

Add then, the size of the Character Board (about 10cm) then the position of Hero cards bellow the Character Board (about 7-8cm), the players required vertical play area would be well over 60cm!

That just seems to large.

Currently, the right side of the character board is not being used in any way (the left side is where Enchantments connect), perhaps the tower could be built from there?

I was really hoping to have it lock right into the top of the Character Board and feel like its growing right out of your play area, rather than beside it...

Anyway, any thoughts?

...This is all probably hard to picture... I should up load some photos of what I mean...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Charles Ward
Japan
Matsumoto
Nagano
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Izaan wrote:
I am a little concerned about the table space required to play the current version of my work in progress:Mage Spire

Is there a general rule of thumb when it comes to what is considered an acceptable table requirement for each player?

In this game, players work to build and ever growing tower. The current rendition has the tower floor tiles as heavy cardboard punch-outs which connect together via subtle bumps on the top and bottom.

There is no central game board, but some central supply decks and "stores" from which the players must all be able to access.

Towers are built from each persons personal tableau.

In a game, I expect players to use up to about 15 tiles for a completed tower. If each tile is 3cm, and you consider Level Up tiles, that puts the average tower at about 45cm...

Add then, the size of the Character Board (about 10cm) then the position of Hero cards bellow the Character Board (about 7-8cm), the players required vertical play area would be well over 60cm!

That just seems to large.

Currently, the right side of the character board is not being used in any way (the left side is where Enchantments connect), perhaps the tower could be built from there?

I was really hoping to have it lock right into the top of the Character Board and feel like its growing right out of your play area, rather than beside it...

Anyway, any thoughts?

...This is all probably hard to picture... I should up load some photos of what I mean...

What is the maximum number of players?
What is the maximum area?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
G G
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
A standard kitchen table is 5' (150cm) wide, 3' (90cm) deep, and that's what I design to play on. Vertical height is normally not an issue, however, it's rare to see anything with more than 1' (30cm) height. Lay it out and see if it plays reasonably in that space.

Then, consider that a standard game box fits inside of 1'x1'x1' cube for shipping / mailing purposes, and it's actually preferred to be smaller than 1'x1'x6" or 1'x1'x4" so you can fit 2 or 3 such boxes in a mailing cube. Do all of your components fit in such a box?

I would seriously look at rescaling the physical components. Why does it need to be 2' tall?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Crimson Beetle
msg tools
mb
Have you considered having players build out as well as up? a 15 tile tall spire is a lot of space to use up, I'd have to stand up out of my chair to see and interact with the tiles at the top.

Have you seen the player mats for Disney's Villainous game? You could utilize something similar to that, just with a vertical orientation instead of horizontal. The mat would represent an empty tower with X number of floors. Players would then attach their rooms to either side of the mat, odd floors on one side, even on the other, staggered. Here's a terrible sketch to hopefully illustrate my thoughts. My understanding of your current layout on the left, my layout suggestion on the right.



You could use the center mat to include the information found on the character boards, hero cards can go on the mat itself, or off to the side. I don't see a reason for them to be underneath in either setup, unless there is some sort of mechanical reason for it I missed. Can enchantments be connected to specific rooms? Otherwise they can be attached to the upper half of the central mat.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Van Biesbrouck
Canada
St Catharines
Ontario
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Could the tiles be long and thin? Instead of a 3 cm square you could have 1.5 x 6 cm -- half the height but still tower-like at 15 levels (2 x 4.5 cm is also reasonable). It is easier to look at your tower if it isn't so tall. Consider Palazzo:



If there's no width to your tower then players might use the full width of the table in a zipper-like pattern.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ethan Fisher
Japan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ex1st wrote:

What is the maximum number of players?
What is the maximum area?

The Maximum players is currently set at 4 as I have about 70 floor tiles at present.

Maximum area... Actually my rough prototype has scaled down floor tiles for simplicity of creation (the tiles are only 1cm thick). Ok, I will set it all out and grab my ruler! ^_^


 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ethan Fisher
Japan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
GrauGeist wrote:
A standard kitchen table is 5' (150cm) wide, 3' (90cm) deep, and that's what I design to play on. Vertical height is normally not an issue, however, it's rare to see anything with more than 1' (30cm) height. Lay it out and see if it plays reasonably in that space.

Then, consider that a standard game box fits inside of 1'x1'x1' cube for shipping / mailing purposes, and it's actually preferred to be smaller than 1'x1'x6" or 1'x1'x4" so you can fit 2 or 3 such boxes in a mailing cube. Do all of your components fit in such a box?

I would seriously look at rescaling the physical components. Why does it need to be 2' tall?

Thanks! That is a good point! I will see how everything fits into the average table area (my table is kinda big).

I could possibly rescale the tile components. As it is, my prototype is only 1cm think. I just want to leave room for my desired artwork. But, maybe that wouldn't be a problem???
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ethan Fisher
Japan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Alastos wrote:
Have you considered having players build out as well as up? a 15 tile tall spire is a lot of space to use up, I'd have to stand up out of my chair to see and interact with the tiles at the top.

Have you seen the player mats for Disney's Villainous game? You could utilize something similar to that, just with a vertical orientation instead of horizontal. The mat would represent an empty tower with X number of floors. Players would then attach their rooms to either side of the mat, odd floors on one side, even on the other, staggered. Here's a terrible sketch to hopefully illustrate my thoughts. My understanding of your current layout on the left, my layout suggestion on the right.



You could use the center mat to include the information found on the character boards, hero cards can go on the mat itself, or off to the side. I don't see a reason for them to be underneath in either setup, unless there is some sort of mechanical reason for it I missed. Can enchantments be connected to specific rooms? Otherwise they can be attached to the upper half of the central mat.

YOU DREW ME A PICTURE!!!! I have never felt so cared for...cry

Your picture on the left is an accurate depiction of what is going on.

I hadn't considered staggering as you showed on the right. That would definitely save space. But, aesthetically, I really want the pieces to form one coherent picture of a tower with each illustration connecting smoothly to the one bellow. Maybe I have to abandon that idea???

Beyond the aesthetics, the floor tiles display income bonuses. As the tower extends, it may be difficult to quickly add these bonuses for the income phase of the game. I had considered adding to the Character Board an income tracker that is adjusted to match the current income produced by the tower, so players dont have to reexamine their tower at each income phase.

If I do this, it may also open the possibility of only maintaining the current Design Card's tower floor tiles. Once the Design is finished, the Character Levels up and the active tiles are discarded and the player gets [fill in some cool reward token, piece to add to a puzzle, or special track advancement????]. The resource tracker still reflects their bonuses and the next Tower Design will start again from the base of your tower.

This would be much more manageable but the Problem is that this method takes away from the satisfaction of making something really big and cool. (???)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ethan Fisher
Japan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mlvanbie wrote:
Could the tiles be long and thin? Instead of a 3 cm square you could have 1.5 x 6 cm -- half the height but still tower-like at 15 levels (2 x 4.5 cm is also reasonable). It is easier to look at your tower if it isn't so tall. Consider Palazzo:



If there's no width to your tower then players might use the full width of the table in a zipper-like pattern.
I am so very not smart. Sorry. The tiles are not a 3cm cube. They are 3cm X 10cm rectangles. (Edited my initial post) Sorry!

BTW the game you posted a picture of shows building tiles used in a way that is startlingly similar to what I have been planning. There are even 3 supply piles...surprise

And the building I LIVE IN is called PALAZZO!!!wow
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
G G
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think I'd rescale the game around each player building 9 floors at 1" each, or 9" total height. This would comfortably fit on a standard piece of writing paper, Letter or A4.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Crimson Beetle
msg tools
mb
Do you have current pictures of your current floor tiles and character mat? that might help me visualize things better as well as get a better understanding of what information is important on each component.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ethan Fisher
Japan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
GrauGeist wrote:
I think I'd rescale the game around each player building 9 floors at 1" each, or 9" total height. This would comfortably fit on a standard piece of writing paper, Letter or A4.
I think you are right. No matter how I look at it. The size needs to be scaled back. And maybe the whole pacing of the game... Hmmm... That will affect a lot of other elements. I guess I should get started.

Alastos wrote:
Do you have current pictures of your current floor tiles and character mat? that might help me visualize things better as well as get a better understanding of what information is important on each component.

I really need to take some pictures and put them up. I will do that when I get home tonight!

some additional thoughts:

...
What if as players completed Designs and segments of their tower, they cleared their personal progress then, as part of leveling up, they contributed something to a Central Tower that all players are working together/competing to construct.

In this model, what the players are working on personally, doesnt have to be towers at all, but some other aligning, arranging, pattern building that in turn gives access to central tower contributions... Hmmm...

I am getting beyond the scope of my initial question. Thanks for your feed back everyone!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls