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Subject: Solo Kill Team rss

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Chris
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Highly recommend the first strike route. With the caveat that you won't have 100 pts of Death Guard. You almost need another easy build set of plague marines which brings you up to more than enough.
 
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Derek J
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Yeah that first strike set does look like a good deal.

I don't usually mind playing with proxies since I'm more of a fan of excellent game mechanics / campaign systems than I am of components. If a game is really good I wouldn't mind just playing it from printed out printer paper even.

Does War Cry change anything to make it more solo'able?

I'm going to start digging into Fallout WW tonight so this will be an interesting experience to see how solo I can make it. I know it comes with AI rules for the units but looking through the scenarios and the AI guide on Modiphius' site it seems like a lot of the scenarios will require the player to come up with timing charts on when the AI should switch objectives or targets. I don't mind doing that at all but it does make it so you have to play test a few times to get something to work.


 
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fortheloveofdice
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Can you level up your specialists to even up the points when one side doesn’t have enough - e.g. with First Strike?

I’m not seeing much other than playing two handed for good solo options with Kill Team.

As for Warcry, I am wondering if killing the monsters from the Monsters and Mercenaries expansion will make it more soloable but haven’t checked out the expansion yet.
 
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yayaba wrote:
Yeah that first strike set does look like a good deal.

I don't usually mind playing with proxies since I'm more of a fan of excellent game mechanics / campaign systems than I am of components. If a game is really good I wouldn't mind just playing it from printed out printer paper even.

Does War Cry change anything to make it more solo'able?

I'm going to start digging into Fallout WW tonight so this will be an interesting experience to see how solo I can make it. I know it comes with AI rules for the units but looking through the scenarios and the AI guide on Modiphius' site it seems like a lot of the scenarios will require the player to come up with timing charts on when the AI should switch objectives or targets. I don't mind doing that at all but it does make it so you have to play test a few times to get something to work.



FWW works very well solo. If you have done any tinkering with games you should have no trouble adapting/creating solo scenarios.
 
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Kristin .
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fortheloveofdice wrote:
Can you level up your specialists to even up the points when one side doesn’t have enough - e.g. with First Strike?

I’m not seeing much other than playing two handed for good solo options with Kill Team.

As for Warcry, I am wondering if killing the monsters from the Monsters and Mercenaries expansion will make it more soloable but haven’t checked out the expansion yet.

I'm actually ok with two-handed for Kill Team (or I wouldn't have gotten a bunch of stuff for it!), as well as for Warcry. That being said, it's the game/games I'm most likely to first start experimenting with creating AI/solo rules myself (I'm definitely NOT a game designer!!!).

I did a quick skim through the rules for Monsters and Mercenaries (haven't read all the way through yet), but Monster fights (challenge battles) consist of the Challenger war band, the monster, and the Adversary war band - the second player is trying to thwart you. It will be interesting to see if this can be tweaked into solo monster fights, but no doubt you'd have to do some sort of balancing, since it's currently balanced assuming that you're trying to fight the monster AND have another war band messing with you at the same time. I'm looking forward to trying it, though. (All the crazy options for Allies/mercenaries are fun as well! Remember, though - I'm all about the figures and painting, so I'm maybe a little unreasonably excited about adding a sorcerer that has a pet swordfish...)
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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So I may have just purchased the Warhammer 40,000: Know No Fear box to give kill team a try. This means I will eventually be contemplating an AI. Just need to get things assembled and painted.
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Oooh! You will still need the rules but hopefully you will end up with a copy by the time the figs are ready
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fortheloveofdice wrote:
Oooh! You will still need the rules but hopefully you will end up with a copy by the time the figs are ready

I need to finish Hellboy first so it will be a few weeks
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Derek J
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War Cry actually looks a bit easier to solo IMO. No real building of unit load outs or anything. Just assemble the out of box Warband and fight.

For either game it might be possible to just take the unit AI cards from Fallout Wasteland Warfare and maybe come up with something.



Roll a dice and depending on the health of the unit, make them do different actions depending on how reckless or careful they are.

It might work? Only thing is not sure how the AI would use abilities of their dice rolls. Might need a separate AI parameter for that though they are very situational and would require separate instructions per faction.

In any case sounds like a good excuse to tinker

Edit: Actually on closer inspection of the faction abilities for War Cry, I think not even using them is a better move. Probably better just to assign a random chance to use the ability for each unit and then go from there. Otherwise too fiddly to see what the AI rolled and figure out how to use it. I shall start to tinker probably after I learn more how Fallout does its AI commands by playing more of that game.
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yayaba wrote:
War Cry actually looks a bit easier to solo IMO. No real building of unit load outs or anything. Just assemble the out of box Warband and fight.

For either game it might be possible to just take the unit AI cards from Fallout Wasteland Warfare and maybe come up with something.



Roll a dice and depending on the health of the unit, make them do different actions depending on how reckless or careful they are.

It might work? Only thing is not sure how the AI would use abilities of their dice rolls. Might need a separate AI parameter for that though they are very situational and would require separate instructions per faction.

In any case sounds like a good excuse to tinker

Edit: Actually on closer inspection of the faction abilities for War Cry, I think not even using them is a better move. Probably better just to assign a random chance to use the ability for each unit and then go from there. Otherwise too fiddly to see what the AI rolled and figure out how to use it. I shall start to tinker probably after I learn more how Fallout does its AI commands by playing more of that game.

Yep, that's exactly what I was thinking, just haven't had a chance to try anything yet. Work's been crazy, and I've also been assembling and painting. Please let us know if you come up with something.

Do we need a separate Solo Warcry thread, or are folks ok with us posting Warcry stuff here? They're different games, but sort of related, and solo ideas may be cross applicable...
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Derek J
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Kush7 wrote:
yayaba wrote:
War Cry actually looks a bit easier to solo IMO. No real building of unit load outs or anything. Just assemble the out of box Warband and fight.

For either game it might be possible to just take the unit AI cards from Fallout Wasteland Warfare and maybe come up with something.



Roll a dice and depending on the health of the unit, make them do different actions depending on how reckless or careful they are.

It might work? Only thing is not sure how the AI would use abilities of their dice rolls. Might need a separate AI parameter for that though they are very situational and would require separate instructions per faction.

In any case sounds like a good excuse to tinker

Edit: Actually on closer inspection of the faction abilities for War Cry, I think not even using them is a better move. Probably better just to assign a random chance to use the ability for each unit and then go from there. Otherwise too fiddly to see what the AI rolled and figure out how to use it. I shall start to tinker probably after I learn more how Fallout does its AI commands by playing more of that game.

Yep, that's exactly what I was thinking, just haven't had a chance to try anything yet. Work's been crazy, and I've also been assembling and painting. Please let us know if you come up with something.

Do we need a separate Solo Warcry thread, or are folks ok with us posting Warcry stuff here? They're different games, but sort of related, and solo ideas may be cross applicable...

I'll admit I haven't actually played either of them but they seem like they play fairly similar? Other than the "I move all, you move all" nature of Kill Team but they both come down to positioning, and dice rolls. KT has the tactics cards and War Cry has the dice rolls to trigger abilities.

I'll probably start with War Cry since it seems easier to experiment and then maybe see if the rules are applicable to Kill Team as well.
 
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I think my difficulty seeing how to make solo Kill Team work comes from having played almost exclusively Arena. The close quarters combat would put different challenges on a simulated opponent.

To note: you can build your own warbands in warcry, but it is at a unit level not loadout level. And for non-chaos factions in fact you have to do so.
 
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Chris
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reverendunclebastard wrote:
So I may have just purchased the Warhammer 40,000: Know No Fear box to give kill team a try. This means I will eventually be contemplating an AI. Just need to get things assembled and painted.
I'll be eagerly awaiting your thoughts Rev.
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Chris
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yayaba wrote:
War Cry actually looks a bit easier to solo IMO. No real building of unit load outs or anything. Just assemble the out of box Warband and fight.

For either game it might be possible to just take the unit AI cards from Fallout Wasteland Warfare and maybe come up with something.



Roll a dice and depending on the health of the unit, make them do different actions depending on how reckless or careful they are.

It might work? Only thing is not sure how the AI would use abilities of their dice rolls. Might need a separate AI parameter for that though they are very situational and would require separate instructions per faction.

In any case sounds like a good excuse to tinker

Edit: Actually on closer inspection of the faction abilities for War Cry, I think not even using them is a better move. Probably better just to assign a random chance to use the ability for each unit and then go from there. Otherwise too fiddly to see what the AI rolled and figure out how to use it. I shall start to tinker probably after I learn more how Fallout does its AI commands by playing more of that game.

I debated something similar to this. I ended up throwing it in. I'll look forward to see if you come up with a way to do this.

For now I'm just going to use Hostile Tactical AI When I'm hard up for a player.

A while back the designer for that system was giving some talk of adapting the system to Kill Team. I might poke him to see if he's made any progress and has any tips. He's obviously going to be way better at using the system and his advice was useful when I was machinating on how to play frostgrave solo.

Don't want to give up on it as good solo quite yet.
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Derek J
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ogoctopus wrote:
He's obviously going to be way better at using the system and his advice was useful when I was machinating on how to play frostgrave solo.

Just quoting this part since I wanted to call out how excited I am for Perilous Dark. It's going to be great to have Frostgrave be officially solo'able and I can't wait.

I've been thinking in my spare time at how to solo War Cry and I have a few ideas but I haven't play tested any of it. I'm probably going to solidify on an AI system and then give it a few rounds of play to see how it goes.

My only concern with War Cry is that I'm not sure the game is deep/complex enough to have legs with a solo bot. Granted I haven't played it a single minute so I am not qualified to speak on it but the round to round action seems pretty basic and the campaign system isn't the most fleshed out either. I suppose it'll be fun to just take a warband and see how far you can get with it but only way to tell how fun it is is to give it a shot!
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Just some updates on my end since I’ve had to chance to try both Fallout WW and Warcry for a little bit, both solo.

Fallout is great. The AI system, while I initially wrote off as merely OK actually works really well in practice. I especially like how varied scenarios can be. I do find myself having to house rule situations from time to time but I can get around it if I just buff up the AI force a little bit to compensate for erratic moves. But so far I am having a blast with the game. I wrote up a session report that I need to publish still that details Tutorial 4 against the AI and the thought process behind it. Long story short I lost! And very badly which is great to have an AI system that works. Kudos to James the designer on making the AI so great.

Warcry on the other hand I think I really need to come up with something more robust here. I’m just using proxy miniatures and proxy terrain so maybe part of the charm of using actual components was lost but playing both sides didn’t feel particularly interesting. Granted I don’t have any of the battle plan or twist cards so I’m just setting up terrain however and then fighting it to the death using the unit cards that are easily found online in Warcry reviews.

Maybe I need to try some of the more varied objective scenarios but just a straight up deathmatch kind of bored me to tears so much that I just packed up my make-shift Warcry game and decided to play something else. I kind of miss the varied equipment, close combat rules, modifier dice, reaction system of Fallout and Warcry just felt like either get within 1” to start melee hitting each other or back up a little bit if you are ranged and take shots from behind. You only get to execute 1 or 2 special moves per round so other than that it’s all about the positioning of your units and figuring out who to hit.

I came up with this rudimentary system of random activations + rolling a D12 to determine the special abilities that the unit will take but even that wasn’t interesting enough for me.

I dunno, maybe I didn’t give it a fair enough shake. Or maybe I need to play with the actual units and terrain to get a better feel for it. I’m just trying to decide quickly if I want to pick up a starter set before GW discontinues it since the starter set is such a good deal. I suppose worse case I can sell it off piece meal if I can’t come up with anything solo for it but my first few attempts haven’t been good at least.
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I've been getting tempted by the mini-less Warcry sets on Ebay for the same reason, I'm sure they're going to disappear before too long but I keep hearing mixed things about the game. I only watched the first video on Guerrilla Miniatures' series but they did not seem to have a very good impression at the end The good words that Fallout keeps getting are making me think I should take a closer look at it though! Especially with the rules being available for free, I wonder how tough it would be to adapt for my micro-40k minis.

I'm going to do 2-handed Gorkamorka and Kill Team to start but I found this "Gangs of Nu Ork" fan project that's essentially Gorkamorka, Necromunda and Inquisitor all rolled into one that looks like exactly what I want. I have my suspicions about the balance but it's pretty well put-together and like 300 pages long with rules for playing any 40k race besides Tyranids (as well as "Skaven", cough, but I guess you can make the argument) and lots of scenarios and variants. It doesn't look any more inherently solo-friendly than the other games, but with a low model count it's easier to assign motivations and personalities to your gangers and "automate" them that way I think. Might be worth a look!

edit sorry for the double edit but the other thing that makes it look really interesting is that you're also free to mix the factions however you want! Vehicles are all just done from a template but otherwise you can have an eldar warlock and his ogryn bodyguard and grot mechanic team and a few kroot mercenaries if you want
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I love Warcry. I've played it twice so far but 2 player not solo. Because it is so stripped down I don't think it's suited for solo as a deathmatch. The objectives might make it better but because it is such a simple system, the reason it's having so much success in the first place, you really need another player to bluff and play mind games with. The fact that the only decision you really have to make is where you move and who you attack, getting an AI to make a good choice would be really hard. And I don't see two handed being that entertaining because it's hard to deceive yourself about how you deploy your warband.

Because Fallout WW is so much more intricate and involves more modifiers it a much better solo prospect in my opinion.
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Logus Vile wrote:
I love Warcry. I've played it twice so far but 2 player not solo. Because it is so stripped down I don't think it's suited for solo as a deathmatch. The objectives might make it better but because it is such a simple system, the reason it's having so much success in the first place, you really need another player to bluff and play mind games with. The fact that the only decision you really have to make is where you move and who you attack, getting an AI to make a good choice would be really hard. And I don't see two handed being that entertaining because it's hard to deceive yourself about how you deploy your warband.

Because Fallout WW is so much more intricate and involves more modifiers it a much better solo prospect in my opinion.

Terrific points. I agree that the added complexity of Fallout adds more dimensions to the solo play where there are other things besides where the units are and how attacking isn’t just rolling dice to compare numbers, there are countless other modifiers to keep track of. I can see how in a true 2 player skirmish it might get annoying for players to have to track that but in a solo setting, complexity is the only thing I have that can make things interesting.

I felt the same with Warcry. The system is so simple I can’t really think of anything interesting to do with it as far as an AI goes. And playing two handed I can do as long as it’s a deep complex game (I used to play AGOT 2nd Edition LCG two handed and that was a brain burner) but Warcry seems a little too simple to make that enjoyable.

I think I’ll give Kill Team a shot now. I initially tried out Warcry first since it seemed like an easier system to automate but now maybe I actually want more complexity to make things interesting.
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boyfights wrote:

I'm going to do 2-handed Gorkamorka and Kill Team to start but I found this "Gangs of Nu Ork" fan project that's essentially Gorkamorka, Necromunda and Inquisitor all rolled into one that looks like exactly what I want. I have my suspicions about the balance but it's pretty well put-together and like 300 pages long with rules for playing any 40k race besides Tyranids (as well as "Skaven", cough, but I guess you can make the argument) and lots of scenarios and variants. It doesn't look any more inherently solo-friendly than the other games, but with a low model count it's easier to assign motivations and personalities to your gangers and "automate" them that way I think. Might be worth a look!

edit sorry for the double edit but the other thing that makes it look really interesting is that you're also free to mix the factions however you want! Vehicles are all just done from a template but otherwise you can have an eldar warlock and his ogryn bodyguard and grot mechanic team and a few kroot mercenaries if you want

Necromunda definitely looks fascinating! I need to read up more about this but I hear great things about the campaign mode in that. Would be fun to run through a campaign mode with a two or three gangs and see how that plays out.
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yayaba wrote:
Logus Vile wrote:
I love Warcry. I've played it twice so far but 2 player not solo. Because it is so stripped down I don't think it's suited for solo as a deathmatch. The objectives might make it better but because it is such a simple system, the reason it's having so much success in the first place, you really need another player to bluff and play mind games with. The fact that the only decision you really have to make is where you move and who you attack, getting an AI to make a good choice would be really hard. And I don't see two handed being that entertaining because it's hard to deceive yourself about how you deploy your warband.

Because Fallout WW is so much more intricate and involves more modifiers it a much better solo prospect in my opinion.

Terrific points. I agree that the added complexity of Fallout adds more dimensions to the solo play where there are other things besides where the units are and how attacking isn’t just rolling dice to compare numbers, there are countless other modifiers to keep track of. I can see how in a true 2 player skirmish it might get annoying for players to have to track that but in a solo setting, complexity is the only thing I have that can make things interesting.

I felt the same with Warcry. The system is so simple I can’t really think of anything interesting to do with it as far as an AI goes. And playing two handed I can do as long as it’s a deep complex game (I used to play AGOT 2nd Edition LCG two handed and that was a brain burner) but Warcry seems a little too simple to make that enjoyable.

I think I’ll give Kill Team a shot now. I initially tried out Warcry first since it seemed like an easier system to automate but now maybe I actually want more complexity to make things interesting.

Appreciate all this input on Warcry - yeah, it always struck me as pretty simple. I do intend to play it with others, but also, the minis are (to me) spectacular, as is the terrain. So investment-wise, I'm sort of looking at it that way - I have had an absolute blast working on the terrain and now minis, and it adds up to many more hours of enjoyment than a lot of my board games. That being said, I would like to see if there's a way to play two handed that's interesting. Probably would need to be objective related and have a narrative component. I'm interested also to try fighting the monsters...
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Kush7 wrote:

Appreciate all this input on Warcry - yeah, it always struck me as pretty simple. I do intend to play it with others, but also, the minis are (to me) spectacular, as is the terrain. So investment-wise, I'm sort of looking at it that way - I have had an absolute blast working on the terrain and now minis, and it adds up to many more hours of enjoyment than a lot of my board games. That being said, I would like to see if there's a way to play two handed that's interesting. Probably would need to be objective related and have a narrative component. I'm interested also to try fighting the monsters...

I definitely can’t discount the way I’m playing Warcry though e.g. with proxied minis from Imperial Assault and Sword & Sorcery laugh. I’m completely missing the thematic feel of playing with the nice minis and nice terrain which has to add a lot to the experience.

I was thinking of just picking the starter set up for the terrain almost. Would make a great companion to running Rangers of Shadowdeep or the upcoming Frostgrave solo expansion. But I already pledged the Battle Systems Fantasy terrain pack and I think that one has more variety for what I can get.

The chaotic beasts look fantastic though. I’m tempted to just pick up the Chimera on its own just to own the miniature!
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Kush7 wrote:
So investment-wise, I'm sort of looking at it that way - I have had an absolute blast working on the terrain and now minis, and it adds up to many more hours of enjoyment than a lot of my board games. That being said, I would like to see if there's a way to play two handed that's interesting.

This was pretty much my outlook going into Warhammer Underworlds too (minus the terrain), it was an easy way to dip my toes back into GW without getting stuck in the wave pool so to speak Just something fun to paint without any extras to tempt me, and a game to play as a bonus! Luckily it ended up being a lot of fun, although pretty useless for solo unfortunately.

yayaba wrote:
Necromunda definitely looks fascinating! I need to read up more about this but I hear great things about the campaign mode in that. Would be fun to run through a campaign mode with a two or three gangs and see how that plays out.

The campaign mode is a lot of fun! I haven't even had a chance to read the new rules yet but the old hazard-striped hardcover book is probably my most-played GW game after Blood Bowl, with Mordheim a close third It looks like they've added quite a lot of stuff to the new edition! If they put out some official rules for Ork gangs I'll probably have to take a closer look, I know there have been some rumblings about a "Gorkamorka"/Vehicle expansion which I would be all over
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