Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
67 Posts
Prev «  1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Board Game Design » Design Queries and Problems

Subject: Question about keeping certain unexplored tiles together rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
david tamali
United States
Tennessee
flag msg tools
pelni wrote:
klbush wrote:
stylicho wrote:
klbush wrote:
stylicho wrote:
GeoffreyB wrote:
My gaming group used to play Twilight Imperium (Fourth Edition) with the tiles flipped over and flipped them when the hex was explored. This was until we played with a balanced board with the contents of every hex revealed. The set board didn't allow for customization of the map but the obstacles in the game were evenly spaced throughout the board. The hexes revealed usually gets rid of the randomness which may be what you are looking for in your game.
Oh no, I prefer randomness. The game should be different every time it is played.
Setting them face up at the start doesn’t change the randomness of the map. It just makes the map known. Actually eliminates luck from the game. Much preferred by me.
It does eliminate luck. I guess exploration, in essence, is luck (for the most part)
If it’s unknown and random exploration you’re after, and the reduction of luck is a consideration at all, then don’t start with the map completely preplaced. when a player moves to a hex have them draw from the stack of unplaced tiles and place a new tile in each surrounding space which is yet to be moved onto. This allows the map development to be driven by the players in unknown ways, and still offers the “next” move to be something seen. I think this is a very realistic method of discovery, explorers are nearly always able to see what’s immediately next before stepping out.

I saw that in some games, but that is very bad thematically, unless you can come up with a great in-universe reason that the player can decide what the landscape looks like. I would not use that solution.

EDIT: Hm, wait. Maybe you did not intend to give players choice of placing tiles as I first read this as? As long as the map is generated on its own without player decisions I am perfectly fine with generating terrain a step ahead.
From what I ascertain only tiles that should theoretically be connected cause a problem. I guess one could say 4 cities shouldn't come out of a bag or be flipped over in a row. Also, it would seem weird to have mountains right next to swamps etc. I guess the best way to do it is to still have the "GM" or somebody not connected with the game set the map up. I'm not a big of apps but that would seem beneficial for something like this.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Charles Ward
Japan
Matsumoto
Nagano
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I guess this is not a space game, so I won't go on about the unthematic nature of moving into an unexplored tile, flipping it over, and finding that its a start the size of the whole tile, or a black hole, both of which are completely detectable by other galaxies far far away from where you are.

I think flipping tiles in an exploration game, set in the age of discovery and exploration, is very cool. How do you keep the information you have learned from reaching other players is another opportunity most games miss out on (tip: place a fog of war tile to cover the tile flipped).

As it has been mentioned Magic Realm does a nice job. If you really want to nail it use hexagons with roads on all sides, some of those roads don't go anywhere, they are just a dead end as soon as you enter the tile. You could have rules for traveling off-road if you need them.

Cheers.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
david tamali
United States
Tennessee
flag msg tools
ex1st wrote:
I guess this is not a space game, so I won't go on about the unthematic nature of moving into an unexplored tile, flipping it over, and finding that its a start the size of the whole tile, or a black hole, both of which are completely detectable by other galaxies far far away from where you are.

I think flipping tiles in an exploration game, set in the age of discovery and exploration, is very cool. How do you keep the information you have learned from reaching other players is another opportunity most games miss out on (tip: place a fog of war tile to cover the tile flipped).

As it has been mentioned Magic Realm does a nice job. If you really want to nail it use hexagons with roads on all sides, some of those roads don't go anywhere, they are just a dead end as soon as you enter the tile. You could have rules for traveling off-road if you need them.

Cheers.
It's not space themed. I like many things space but have yet to diverge into space themed board games.
I have also wondered how to keep explored tiles only beknown to those who searched for them. Keeping a chart seems tedious. I think it beneficial to just show it to all after it has been discovered. That way an ally could use proper action points to cross the terrain instead of other players wondering why he only moved one space.
I'm keeping an open mind on how this should/could work
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
G G
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Maybe don't have roads?

This tile is a city. This is a swamp. This is a mountain. A plains. Etc.

Much simpler.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pelle Nilsson
Sweden
Linköping
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
stylicho wrote:

From what I ascertain only tiles that should theoretically be connected cause a problem. I guess one could say 4 cities shouldn't come out of a bag or be flipped over in a row. Also, it would seem weird to have mountains right next to swamps etc. I guess the best way to do it is to still have the "GM" or somebody not connected with the game set the map up. I'm not a big of apps but that would seem beneficial for something like this.

My current WIP game solves a similar problem for generating dungeons (not just to make the roads (i.e. dungeon rooms) connect, but to make a sensible layout overall, while still discovering the layout of the dungeon as you explore it), but will have to remain vaporware for some more time (might enter it in this year's solitaire game contest... or not... so not sure when is the right time to reveal how it works). I have thought of trying to modify it to generate also overland hex or square tile random maps later as an expansion, but have forced myself to not divert time to that before the base game is done.

That does not help OP perhaps, but I think it is a problem that can actually be solved. Just because there does not seem to be any existing games that have aimed very high in trying to create properly connected terrain does not mean that there are definitely no ways to do that, and it does not even have to be much work for the player (the burden is on the designer to create the correct tiles). Maybe when I post my WIP someone will get some ideas how to apply it to road networks (and how to make cities and swamps with reasonable shapes).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Harald Torvatn
Norway
Trondheim
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Maybe the Things which are to be kept together could not be directly on the tiles, but on separate Counters? Once it has been determined that a hex has a road, it is probably also determined where that road leaves the hex. Obviously, that hex must also have som road, but whether that road stops there, forks or curves will be determined when that hex is explored.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
G G
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
pelni wrote:
I think it is a problem that can actually be solved. Just because there does not seem to be any existing games that have aimed very high in trying to create properly connected terrain does not mean that there are definitely no ways to do that,

There are plenty of games that have modular tiles that connect "correctly". Zombicide, Super Dungeon Explore, Ogre/GEV and so on.

It's simply a question of defining a common set of connectors that consistently apply to every tile.

The fewer rotational symmetries, the easier it is to do this. A rectangular tile need only worry about consistent top-bottom and left-right connections, which is much easier to design around. Otherwise, it's typically a square with connectors in the middle of each side.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pelle Nilsson
Sweden
Linköping
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
GrauGeist wrote:
pelni wrote:
I think it is a problem that can actually be solved. Just because there does not seem to be any existing games that have aimed very high in trying to create properly connected terrain does not mean that there are definitely no ways to do that,

There are plenty of games that have modular tiles that connect "correctly". Zombicide, Super Dungeon Explore, Ogre/GEV and so on.

It's simply a question of defining a common set of connectors that consistently apply to every tile.

The fewer rotational symmetries, the easier it is to do this. A rectangular tile need only worry about consistent top-bottom and left-right connections, which is much easier to design around. Otherwise, it's typically a square with connectors in the middle of each side.

Yes, there are. I should have been clearer. I am of course aware of those games and many, many others. But having connectors in all directions or anything like that is not what I am doing.

EDIT: The result of just placing tiles that always connect is a very regular pattern, and almost always, at least in the case of dungeon crawlers, you end up with a typology that does not matter at all, and there is no logic to it. You can not really predict what comes up ahead, and beyond simple tricks like "shuffle the boss monster tile into the last three tiles" there is nothing that causes the dungeon to be constructed in some sensible way. Most games could have been just a series of random encounters with no map at all. That was why I wanted to come up with some thing better than the old "every tile connects to ever other tile".

EDIT2: You should of course be skeptical until I actually provide some proof that it works. And even then I can not promise that something similar would work for overland terrain, or for hexagons, but I am optimistic. I might find some time to post a few images of generated dungeons later tonight to at least hint at that it works.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Graham Muller
South Africa
Cape Town
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If enough cards have roads on them, then printing the roads on the back of the cards as well as the front will allow you to place them in a logical setup.

You can even just print the road connection points rather than the entire road on the back of the card, thus not knowing how the roads connect up on the card.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
G G
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
pelni wrote:
GrauGeist wrote:
pelni wrote:
I think it is a problem that can actually be solved. Just because there does not seem to be any existing games that have aimed very high in trying to create properly connected terrain does not mean that there are definitely no ways to do that,

There are plenty of games that have modular tiles that connect "correctly". Zombicide, Super Dungeon Explore, Ogre/GEV and so on.

It's simply a question of defining a common set of connectors that consistently apply to every tile.

The fewer rotational symmetries, the easier it is to do this. A rectangular tile need only worry about consistent top-bottom and left-right connections, which is much easier to design around. Otherwise, it's typically a square with connectors in the middle of each side.

Yes, there are. I should have been clearer. I am of course aware of those games and many, many others. But having connectors in all directions or anything like that is not what I am doing.

EDIT: The result of just placing tiles that always connect is a very regular pattern, and almost always, at least in the case of dungeon crawlers, you end up with a typology that does not matter at all, and there is no logic to it. You can not really predict what comes up ahead, and beyond simple tricks like "shuffle the boss monster tile into the last three tiles" there is nothing that causes the dungeon to be constructed in some sensible way. Most games could have been just a series of random encounters with no map at all. That was why I wanted to come up with some thing better than the old "every tile connects to ever other tile".

EDIT2: You should of course be skeptical until I actually provide some proof that it works. And even then I can not promise that something similar would work for overland terrain, or for hexagons, but I am optimistic. I might find some time to post a few images of generated dungeons later tonight to at least hint at that it works.

There can be dead ends or other breaks in the route, so the topology can be significant. If physical positioning matters for tactical or strategic play, then the map is useful. If the scale is large strategic, I just wouldn't have roads.

Quite frankly, in an exploration game, I'd rather draw and place a random tile.

But if you can't make it work for your game, then I understand.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pelle Nilsson
Sweden
Linköping
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
GrauGeist wrote:

There can be dead ends or other breaks in the route, so the topology can be significant. If physical positioning matters for tactical or strategic play, then the map is useful. If the scale is large strategic, I just wouldn't have roads.

There was a thread recently about the lack of need to backtrack in random (not with pre-designed maps or a map constructed by a GM) dungeon crawlers. There is rarely much planning ahead like I would want. Any room just appears anywhere without much or any connection to the rooms around it or further away into the dungeon. My WIP will create kind of lock-and-key puzzles. You will see on the board approximately where some monsters (and their treasures) are you want to reach, you will see locked doors and where their keys are, but you will have to keep explore to see how exactly things connect and stumble around a bit to find the best path through the dungeon. It will make more sense when I start my WIP thread and post some photos.

There is a "cost" in that some parts further away in the dungeon will often be revealed, or at least hints about what is elsewhere. When you walk into a new room you may have to flip over more than one new tile and place, "worst" case up to five or so (but that is rare, and it only takes a few seconds anyway). That is unavoidable probably when trying to make things fit together in some sort of logical way. I am trying to turn that into a feature by building the game with a focus on planning ahead and predicting what will come up later.

Quote:
Quite frankly, in an exploration game, I'd rather draw and place a random tile.

But if you can't make it work for your game, then I understand.

But my game is about drawing and placing random tiles. Draw a tile, turn it over, place it as indicated. But... with a twist, of course.

Anyway this is a bit off-topic, but I think if OP wants to have terrain that connects in more interesting ways there is a possibility that the same twist will work to make that possible. I think it would work great if you could see some distant cities, rivers, and roads, and then as you moved around blank areas would slowly fill in around you (kind of how my dungeons are generated). There can still be dead-ends because a road suddenly ends so you have to backtrack, but the algorithm can guarantee that there is always some road that will eventually lead to the destination.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
G G
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't understand why a new team entering a dungeon would know its layout. D&D never gave you the maps at the start of an adventure. You had to record it as you went.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pelle Nilsson
Sweden
Linköping
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
GrauGeist wrote:
I don't understand why a new team entering a dungeon would know its layout. D&D never gave you the maps at the start of an adventure. You had to record it as you went.

That is something one of my playtesters brought up a few months ago. I am trying to solve that thematically by explaining that the hero is just very good at reading hints about what is ahead. You can always deduce some of the layout of the dungeon from distant sounds, from cryptic messages scribbled on walls, from preparing by researching the dungeon before going there instead of going in blindly, from interrogating some of the unlucky guards you beat up etc etc.

For overland terrain it makes even more sense. You have some rumors about ancient ruins in an area to the south-east, and you have seen fragments of maps showing you approximately the path there. On the way you get more hints by seeing distant landmarks, some of which might combine with your previous knowledge to give you further ideas what the land looks like.

(To clarify all that is abstracted out. You have to use some imagination for where information came from. The player will just get the information. Somehow you know where the key is. I had one version where you only knew vaguely where the key would be, but that slowed down play too much. Now you will know the exact location immediately, but you will not necessarily know how to get there as the dungeon is a bit of a maze.)

The more I try to come up with excuses the more I convince myself that it actually makes a lot of sense that you do get some information, and really in a table-top RPG you often do that as well with the GM giving you some hints about what is up further ahead. We will see how successful I am at convincing others.

If you just look at it from a game design pov and for a moment ignore the theme (even if I do find theme very important) it is actually great that you can have some ideas about what to do next and that the three possible doors you can go through are not equivalent. You may not know for sure which door will be best to move through, but at least you have some hints to make an informed decision.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Graham Muller
South Africa
Cape Town
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I was going to edit previous comment but a bit has been added so.

Adding on from having road markings on the edge of the back of the card.
For places of interest (Cities etc.) to prevent having them next to each other you could have a marker on the back of the card (Say an exclamation mark) for a place of interest, this should not just be one type to make it more interesting and maybe even include a few fake ones.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
G G
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
pelni wrote:
GrauGeist wrote:
I don't understand why a new team entering a dungeon would know its layout. D&D never gave you the maps at the start of an adventure. You had to record it as you went.

That is something one of my playtesters brought up a few months ago. I am trying to solve that thematically by explaining that the hero is just very good at reading hints about what is ahead. You can always deduce some of the layout of the dungeon from distant sounds, from cryptic messages scribbled on walls, from preparing by researching the dungeon before going there instead of going in blindly, from interrogating some of the unlucky guards you beat up etc etc.

For overland terrain it makes even more sense. You have some rumors about ancient ruins in an area to the south-east, and you have seen fragments of maps showing you approximately the path there. On the way you get more hints by seeing distant landmarks, some of which might combine with your previous knowledge to give you further ideas what the land looks like.

(To clarify all that is abstracted out. You have to use some imagination for where information came from. The player will just get the information. Somehow you know where the key is. I had one version where you only knew vaguely where the key would be, but that slowed down play too much. Now you will know the exact location immediately, but you will not necessarily know how to get there as the dungeon is a bit of a maze.)

The more I try to come up with excuses the more I convince myself that it actually makes a lot of sense that you do get some information, and really in a table-top RPG you often do that as well with the GM giving you some hints about what is up further ahead. We will see how successful I am at convincing others.

If you just look at it from a game design pov and for a moment ignore the theme (even if I do find theme very important) it is actually great that you can have some ideas about what to do next and that the three possible doors you can go through are not equivalent. You may not know for sure which door will be best to move through, but at least you have some hints to make an informed decision.

I believe that theme drives mechanics. If it's a question of too much time required, you can adjust distance and size. I had a DC with similar issues, and I tweaked things specifically to speed gameplay, for less running around.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
david tamali
United States
Tennessee
flag msg tools
I've been thinking lately that's it's possible to have multiple designs on the tiles. For example, there would be a primary terrain type, a secondary terrain type, and a third terrain type. As an example the primary would be a basic forest hex, the secondary would be a road hex, and the third would be a river hex. The primary would always designate the terrain whether there is a road or river going through it. To accomplish this the road or river would be, I'm trying to think of how to say this, lightly colored perhaps. For a board that's pre-laid an original road and river hex tile would probably have to be flipped to acknowledge where they are.

Woops, nevermind, once the players start diverting from those areas the road and river would be lost again. Forgive me, I'm just thinking out loud.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
G G
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Typically, hexes are basic geography:
* clear
* forest
* swamp
* city
* water
* mountain

I still don't understand the need for roads - what's the gameplay driver? Why does the game need roads? Do the gameplay benefits outweigh the design effort? Is the game better without them?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
david tamali
United States
Tennessee
flag msg tools
GrauGeist wrote:
Typically, hexes are basic geography:
* clear
* forest
* swamp
* city
* water
* mountain

I still don't understand the need for roads - what's the gameplay driver? Why does the game need roads? Do the gameplay benefits outweigh the design effort? Is the game better without them?
I think being prohibited from having roads is a serious hindrance for potential game designs. However, I'm looking at this from the perspective of a game that is pre-laid, not necessarily chits that are pulled from a bag or what not.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
G G
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
stylicho wrote:
GrauGeist wrote:
Typically, hexes are basic geography:
* clear
* forest
* swamp
* city
* water
* mountain

I still don't understand the need for roads - what's the gameplay driver? Why does the game need roads? Do the gameplay benefits outweigh the design effort? Is the game better without them?
I think being prohibited from having roads is a serious hindrance for potential game designs. However, I'm looking at this from the perspective of a game that is pre-laid, not necessarily chits that are pulled from a bag or what not.

It's a minor thing, at best. Roads can be OK on a preprinted map, but look to be a poor choice for hidden hexes / chits as OP is doing.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Keane
United States
Medford
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
One idea to incorporate roads is if you had 2 face-down sets of tiles: those without roads, and those with roads (which may be a single road from one end to end, a curved road, forked road, 2 intersecting roads, etc.). Then have different movement rules for exploring out of the road end of a tile vs out a non-road side of a tile, like make it cost more or require special equipment or you have to leave your car and some of your gear.

When you're moving along a road, you draw from the road stack, which will usually be able to be oriented to match adjacent tiles, unless you're trying to fill a space with multiple surrounding tiles with and without roads. When moving off-road, draw from the non-road stack, which will always be placeable.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pelle Nilsson
Sweden
Linköping
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
GrauGeist wrote:
stylicho wrote:
GrauGeist wrote:
Typically, hexes are basic geography:
* clear
* forest
* swamp
* city
* water
* mountain

I still don't understand the need for roads - what's the gameplay driver? Why does the game need roads? Do the gameplay benefits outweigh the design effort? Is the game better without them?
I think being prohibited from having roads is a serious hindrance for potential game designs. However, I'm looking at this from the perspective of a game that is pre-laid, not necessarily chits that are pulled from a bag or what not.

It's a minor thing, at best. Roads can be OK on a preprinted map, but look to be a poor choice for hidden hexes / chits as OP is doing.

Roads are rarely minor in games that have them, and I agree with OP a random map with them would be better, everything else being equal. Makes the world look much more real too, not just a noisy pattern of whatever random tiles happened to come out of a bag.

I read the last few posts and realized an earlier idea for random dungeons I had, that I for various reasons decided to not use, would be much better for laying out a terrain hex (or square) map that is gradually revealed. Have to come back with some example drawings to show what it could look like.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pelle Nilsson
Sweden
Linköping
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think we could all use some more context to know what shape of map it is etc. Are there multiple players starting in different corners like a 4x game, or is it a single player/team starting in one place exploring from there? Is there a goal they try to reach? Do the roads go from somewhere to somewhere else in particular?

EDIT: Is it crucial that a single hex is revealed each time, or could it vary so that on some turns there is only 1, but at other times clusters of 2 or 3 or maybe even more? Because that would make things a bit easier (or at least require far fewer tiles...).whistle

EDIT2: And what about map size? Are we talking Catan or Case Blue size maps?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Fenton
United States
Tomball
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
stylicho wrote:
I'm working on a game that involves unexplored hex tiles. In the game a person lays the tiles out on the board upside down. The tiles get flipped over throughout the game obviously. My question is how do people keep tiles together that are supposed to go together? For example, if you flip a road tile how can that road stay connected with other road tiles without whoever laid the tiles down knowing what he put down? Are there games that have this? I know there are games with unexplored tiles but, as far as I know, they don't have to be connected to other tiles when flipped over. Thanks
Unfortunately, I think what you want is impossible. You cannot ensure that pieces fit together when placed randomly unless they ALL fit together. Either the player placing them must know SOMETHING about them (as in sorted stacks showing the road layout), or you have to have some other method.

A compromise might be the aforementioned "road tiles" (tiles indicating that they should be part of a road, but with the road indicated by something else). But that would require you to uncover both tiles before you can connect them (you can't have a road leading to an uncovered tile).

Another method is having the backs of the tiles showing the road layout. You would have "straight through tiles" and "elbow tiles", which you can connect ahead of time, but not know WHICH of each type of tiles is in each place. Or you represent the road separately (combining this plus the above) so that any tile could be anywhere, but roads are fixed). Advantage is that players could vary the road set up ahead of time, but of course they then know where all the roads are.

Or you could do what other games do and dynamically grow the board...since tiles aren't pre-placed, it increases the chance of pieces matching up (i.e. player must connect any existing road connections if possible, but otherwise can orient the piece however they want).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pelle Nilsson
Sweden
Linköping
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
dsdhornet wrote:

Unfortunately, I think what you want is impossible. You cannot ensure that pieces fit together when placed randomly unless they ALL fit together. Either the player placing them must know SOMETHING about them (as in sorted stacks showing the road layout), or you have to have some other method.

A compromise might be the aforementioned "road tiles" (tiles indicating that they should be part of a road, but with the road indicated by something else). But that would require you to uncover both tiles before you can connect them (you can't have a road leading to an uncovered tile).

Another method is having the backs of the tiles showing the road layout. You would have "straight through tiles" and "elbow tiles", which you can connect ahead of time, but not know WHICH of each type of tiles is in each place. Or you represent the road separately (combining this plus the above) so that any tile could be anywhere, but roads are fixed). Advantage is that players could vary the road set up ahead of time, but of course they then know where all the roads are.

I agree SOME information must leak, to be able to piece things together, but you can do it in more subtle ways while also guaranteeing that roads actually lead somewhere. And also some information leakage can work well thematically as I tried to argue earler.

Quote:
Or you could do what other games do and dynamically grow the board...since tiles aren't pre-placed, it increases the chance of pieces matching up (i.e. player must connect any existing road connections if possible, but otherwise can orient the piece however they want).

I would avoid this, since I can not think of a way to make roads actually lead somewhere with this, and it is just not nice to have to sometimes redraw tiles or let players chose where to put them if they do not fit where it shoud have been placed. And tiles that all connect to each other is boring in addition to not making roads deliberately connect places.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
G G
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
pelni wrote:
GrauGeist wrote:
stylicho wrote:
GrauGeist wrote:
Typically, hexes are basic geography:
* clear
* forest
* swamp
* city
* water
* mountain

I still don't understand the need for roads - what's the gameplay driver?
I think being prohibited from having roads is a serious hindrance for potential game designs.

It's a minor thing, at best. Roads can be OK on a preprinted map, but look to be a poor choice for hidden hexes / chits as OP is doing.

Roads are rarely minor in games that have them, and I agree with OP a random map with them would be better, everything else being equal. Makes the world look much more real too, not just a noisy pattern of whatever random tiles happened to come out of a bag.

I read the last few posts and realized an earlier idea for random dungeons I had, that I for various reasons decided to not use, would be much better for laying out a terrain hex (or square) map that is gradually revealed. Have to come back with some example drawings to show what it could look like.

My sense is that most road bonuses exist purely because the map has roads on it, and the designer needs to make it do something, anything, simply to justify drawing roads on the map.

I think random maps look great, but they are scale dependent. People need to be small compared to the distance a hex represents. Consider the tiles in Settlers of Catan - they are fine if you are using Meeples or 6mm infantry or wooden blocks, but not as good for 28mm infantry. Unless you reduce the variety. Perhaps a biome generator, where you roll a d6 to determine the biome, and then roll a d6 for aleah new tile, reducing variety in favor of "realism".
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Prev «  1 , 2 , 3  Next »   |