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Subject: August 2019 european math trade discussion thread rss

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Kostas Retalis
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We are now on step 2 - declaring wants.
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Mikey Moose
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To avoid confusion, I'll just mention that on OLWGL that's step 4
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Florent Leguern Conciergerie Easylife
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I just never remember that part When we assign values to a game, what currency is it using ? (or what anything ?)
 
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Tor Sverre Lund
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Eawyne wrote:
I just never remember that part :( When we assign values to a game, what currency is it using ? (or what anything ?)

There is no currency, it's YOUR value. Use your own system, whether that is just 1, 2, 3, or a huge span from 1 to 10000. It's only meant to be an easy way to cross off wants that you value higher than the value of your offers (which you also have to set, of course).
 
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Edward
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Damn! Missed again! Saw it one day too late.

Maybe 2020 will be my year?
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Florent Leguern Conciergerie Easylife
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Gawain wrote:
Eawyne wrote:
I just never remember that part When we assign values to a game, what currency is it using ? (or what anything ?)

There is no currency, it's YOUR value. Use your own system, whether that is just 1, 2, 3, or a huge span from 1 to 10000. It's only meant to be an easy way to cross off wants that you value higher than the value of your offers (which you also have to set, of course).

Thanks. Somehow, I think I'll never get the full use of those trades.
 
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Tor Sverre Lund
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Eawyne wrote:
Gawain wrote:
Eawyne wrote:
I just never remember that part :( When we assign values to a game, what currency is it using ? (or what anything ?)

There is no currency, it's YOUR value. Use your own system, whether that is just 1, 2, 3, or a huge span from 1 to 10000. It's only meant to be an easy way to cross off wants that you value higher than the value of your offers (which you also have to set, of course).

Thanks. Somehow, I think I'll never get the full use of those trades.

I just want to point out that you don't have to use the value system at all to participate. It CAN save you some time, but it can also cause you all sorts of problems if you're not aware of what you're doing. So if you're not sure what you're doing, just feel free to leave it all alone :)
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Paweł Szewczuk
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Hi,
it will be my first time with mathtrade. and I have two questions:
1. I am interested in one of the sweetener added to game, it is possible only yo get it? Or it is not allowed?
2. It is possible to get X game for my game? (I wanted 3 games for my 1, these three games are equal to the value of the game I traded. (prices based on bgg market).

Thank you
 
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Lucas Smith
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Szewster wrote:
Hi,
it will be my first time with mathtrade. and I have two questions:
1. I am interested in one of the sweetener added to game, it is possible only yo get it? Or it is not allowed?
2. It is possible to get X game for my game? (I wanted 3 games for my 1, these three games are equal to the value of the game I traded. (prices based on bgg market).

Thank you
1) You will get everything that is mentioned in a geek list item. There is no way to only trade for a sweetener. However, you can of course tell the sender to keep/trash parts of the offer and only send you some parts of the offer. You would obviously giving away value this way.

2) You will always trade exactly 1 geek list item for exactly 1 other geek list item. Value doesn't matter at all. You will never be able to trade 1 item for many no matter how valuable it is. Please consider reading the usual Math Trade guides again. (See geek list header)
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Paweł Szewczuk
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Thank you, it clears things UP.
 
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Paolo Desalvo
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Szewster wrote:
2. It is possible to get X game for my game? (I wanted 3 games for my 1, these three games are equal to the value of the game I traded. (prices based on bgg market).
One of the many mistake that I see organizing math trade are those persons that add sweeteners to increase the value of an offer so as to reach the value of a game that they saw. A math trade is not based on the value of the things you offer, it is based on the interest that these offers raise. And as said Lucas before me, you exchange a geeklist item with another geeklist item, and you always receive a geeklist item that you asked for.
 
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Dom B.
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In some math trades, the organizer does a trial run (a simulation of what the results would have been based on the then-submitted want lists), typically when ~60% of participants have submitted. Is it something which is planned for this one?
Thanks to Kostas for running this trade.
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Paolo Desalvo
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Dom22 wrote:
In some math trades, the organizer does a trial run (a simulation of what the results would have been based on the then-submitted want lists), typically when ~60% of participants have submitted. Is it something which is planned for this one?
Thanks to Kostas for running this trade.
It is the first time that I hear such a thing, and in the Italian Math Trades since the start I run them directly since 2016. Then my experience tells me that it is of no usage since its results will be completely different from the final ones.
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BlackSheeper wrote:
Dom22 wrote:
In some math trades, the organizer does a trial run (a simulation of what the results would have been based on the then-submitted want lists), typically when ~60% of participants have submitted. Is it something which is planned for this one?
Thanks to Kostas for running this trade.
It is the first time that I hear such a thing, and in the Italian Math Trades since the start I run them directly since 2016. Then my experience tells me that it is of no usage since its results will be completely different from the final ones.
It's done in some American MTs. It's all about the hype. It's really neither necessary nor desireable.
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Tor Sverre Lund
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Dom22 wrote:
In some math trades, the organizer does a trial run (a simulation of what the results would have been based on the then-submitted want lists), typically when ~60% of participants have submitted. Is it something which is planned for this one?
Thanks to Kostas for running this trade.

Sounds like a bad idea. Just gets everyone hyped and then most likely disappointed when the actual results come around ^_^ Not to mention the waste of time and huge potential for misunderstandings.
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Kostas Retalis
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https://bgg.activityclub.org/olwlg/trades-summary.cgi?listid...

These are pending results!

Please do not ship items until final confirmation tomorrow!

Please review the results.

Many thanks for participating in the trade.
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Mikey Moose
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Just out of curiosity, what could change and why?
 
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Kostas Retalis
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ReverseMeeple wrote:
Just out of curiosity, what could change and why?

Well, it's something that I remember happening forever.

I guess it could be an arbitrage case we didn't notice or any other users' errors that were just spotted at the very last time.
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Kostas Retalis
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Speak of the devil, something did happen.

There is a user that accidentally chose a game which is unplayable in a language he doesn't know. The owner of the game denoted that it's x_language clearly, in bold and above every other information.

The user that did the mistake asked me politely if we can re-run the results after he fixes it.

So there are several potential problems occuring from this situation. Since it's my first time organizing, I will try to make it as clear as possible, so that we can avoid future problems. Maintaining the perfectly healthy process that Base The Bass had is number one priority for me.

So, I incline to not change the results, because I really think we may have a snowball effect in the future. Let me forecast some potentional cases:

For example, another user may in the future claim that he didn't notice something like this because he is not happy with the results and not really because he didn't notice something.

Changing the results now, may also let another user be unhappy with the new results (he may prefer the old ones, for example the owner of that game, since he probably gets another game than the one he takes now) and even refuse to accept them.


I want to hear some opinions and I'll try to be as fair as I can in reaching my final decision.
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Vaggelis Vernadakis
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Fabregus wrote:
Speak of the devil, something did happen.

There is a user that accidentally chose a game which is unplayable in a language he doesn't know. The owner of the game denoted that it's x_language clearly, in bold and above every other information.

The user that did the mistake asked me politely if we can re-run the results after he fixes it.

So there are several potential problems occuring from this situation. Since it's my first time organizing, I will try to make it as clear as possible, so that we can avoid future problems. Maintaining the perfectly healthy process that Base The Bass had is number one priority for me.

So, I incline to not change the results, because I really think we may have a snowball effect in the future. Let me forecast some potentional cases:

For example, another user may in the future claim that he didn't notice something like this because he is not happy with the results and not really because he didn't notice something.

Changing the results now, may also let another user be unhappy with the new results (he may prefer the old ones, for example the owner of that game, since he probably gets another game than the one he takes now) and even refuse to accept them.


I want to hear some opinions and I'll try to be as fair as I can in reaching my final decision.

My opinion is that your decision is correct. That is the reason that there are rules and everybody should read them and understand them before they participate. If the description of the item was correct, then the recipient is the one that made the mistake (it can happen that he indeed did a mistake), but according to the rules, he has to accept the results and take the responsibility for his mistake. Otherwise, at any point after the announcement of the results, anyone who did not like them (or if he thinks that he would have gotten "better" games), would do the same thing and this way the trade would never be satisfactory to anyone. That is why it is necessary for everyone to double check his wants while submitting them.
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Mikey Moose
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My opinion is that we should probably rerun the trade.

I don't think the first scenario you mention would happen, it would mean someone would actually add an item in a language they don't understand, just to be able to throw the Math Trade off. Or they would lie about not understanding a language, which is high risk (perhaps they've written in it on BGG, for example), so I find it unlikely.

The second concern is a risk, but it's clearly marked that the results were preliminary.

For the record, I like the result on my items, even though I could like it more. I'm trying to be objective.
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Dan
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In the UK maths trade,protocol is to wipe the person's entire submission rather than edit the list, then ban them from the next trade.


Obviously the problem is you can t actually force them to fulfil the trade, so if they decided their bgg account being lost is worth not fulfilling, they could just ignore it. Though letting them stand or removing said user from the trade is the only two options. Editing individual wants lists is obviously too time consuming and fiddly to expect the admin to do it, and as you said could encourage lying
 
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Mikey Moose
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That sounds a bit too harsh for what could be a simple mistake.
 
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Dan
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It's hassle for the admin to be manually editing people's lists, so the blanked or stay in approach is the only practical approach it makes sense to consistently apply.
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Angelos Lampridis
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Fabregus wrote:
So, I incline to not change the results, because I really think we may have a snowball effect in the future. Let me forecast some potentional cases:

For example, another user may in the future claim that he didn't notice something like this because he is not happy with the results and not really because he didn't notice something.
I agree with your decision.
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