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Subject: Essen SPIEL 2019 no shipping math trade discussion thread rss

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Tobias Lunte
Germany
Garrel
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K_Nudde wrote:
tadej1986 wrote:
MyKrisse wrote:
tadej1986 wrote:


I got 2 of those vouchers a 20 and 30. So can I ask him for money instead if he broke rules?

The problem is not offering those vouchers. Everyone who is putting them on their wishlist should have read the description and everyone who is offering vouchers has to ensure, that the voucher is valid and can traded in for what it's intended to. The problem is trading it for money. And I'm with Tobi and Götz, that it shouldn't be traded for money or other vouchers/giftcards. Just to avoid situations like this.

I was thinking about offering vouchers like that, too, but would trade them for games only.

Yes that is why I asking, vouchers have money value. So it is money for money. Well I hope I will get something on their booth for 33€ (since Barenpark Grizlies cost only 17€)

For next time if you only wanted one voucher you could use duplicate protection.

Doesn't really work since duplicate protection doesn't consider items of differing values which a 20- and a 30€ voucher clearly are.
 
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Tadej Vengust
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Tobl wrote:
K_Nudde wrote:
tadej1986 wrote:
MyKrisse wrote:
tadej1986 wrote:


I got 2 of those vouchers a 20 and 30. So can I ask him for money instead if he broke rules?

The problem is not offering those vouchers. Everyone who is putting them on their wishlist should have read the description and everyone who is offering vouchers has to ensure, that the voucher is valid and can traded in for what it's intended to. The problem is trading it for money. And I'm with Tobi and Götz, that it shouldn't be traded for money or other vouchers/giftcards. Just to avoid situations like this.

I was thinking about offering vouchers like that, too, but would trade them for games only.

Yes that is why I asking, vouchers have money value. So it is money for money. Well I hope I will get something on their booth for 33€ (since Barenpark Grizlies cost only 17€)

For next time if you only wanted one voucher you could use duplicate protection.

Doesn't really work since duplicate protection doesn't consider items of differing values which a 20- and a 30€ voucher clearly are.

Since vouchers are like money and Outside the Scoope automatic duplicate protection doesnt work unless you make it by hand. But then would be line money for money too.
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Ben P.
Germany
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Just a quick notice that I am still in touch with some users and the confirmation will most likely take longer than 2 pm today.
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Marc R
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I would see it as arbitrage and would prefer to just skip him in this trade. I get 50% off at the lookout booth which means I could have made good profit offering such vouchers if allowed to trade for money. Btw it is not his first trade, so rules should be clear to him. Therefore, I second Tobi's exclusion proposal
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D P
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I would mind less if his vouchers were mostly traded for games, and then an occasional money trade. All of his vouchers are traded for money - so it certainly seems like a very deliberate trade - regardless of the actual letters in the rules, it feels like exploiting a loophole.

I'm more in favor of removing his results (as it's money for money, he can easily be "removed" from the loop) - next year, someone else may try another loophole, thinking he may be excluded the year after that, but his then-current results may well be accepted. On the other hand, excluding him from future participations - I don't really see the value in that. Having his trades removed seems "punishment" enough.
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Patrick
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+1 on the voucher issue. It feels less like a game swap among enthusiasts, more like an attempt to turn a profit. I would also argue that a voucher, any voucher, is inherently less valuable than cash, since it has additional restrictions, thereby violating both the spirit as well as the letter of the rule.
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Francesco T
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Considering that last year happened the same and the result were kept, if the rules remained the same I think that also those results should be kept.

However, rule can be changed, so even in the leftover MT we could set up a new rule to clearly state that money cannot be traded with vouchers.

Personally, I would like to see no voucher at all in the MT, just games and money. Same goes for Geek Gold, even that traded for money could be a problem I suppose.
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Tadej Vengust
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omnigod wrote:
... However, rule can be changed, so even in the leftover MT we could set up a new rule to clearly state that money cannot be traded with vouchers...

What is Leftover Math Trade and when?
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Janet Welch
United Kingdom
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Left over math trade is as it sound the game left over get to try again, it relies on people updating their wish list and allows people who missed the initial trade to join in. There had been no announcement about the exact date, as far as I know, but normally it is pretty soon after this trade. I think this year they are planning on using the new system which allows them to just copy all the games from the original list that didn’t trade to the new list and may also copy your wants over. So you just need to edit them and submit them again if you were part of the original trade and want to be part of the left over trade.
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Pete & SO
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Are the results confirmed yet (it does say 'results summary' in the OLWLG, but wasn't there usually an 'official' confirmation post in the threads - or was this only in the German MT ...)?

edit: Thanks !
 
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Janet Welch
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No the results are not confirmed yet, we are all waiting for the official post. It will be posted here and on the announcement thread.
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Ben P.
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The REVISED preliminary results are up!

This is the 2nd version of the results.

All links are the same as before: results summary.

Make sure to reload your open browser tabs to see the revised results.

Please check the new results for possible errors within the next 24 hours and geekmail me directly if there seems to be anything wrong.

Sorry for the inconvenience. I'll provide some explanation later.

Please do not ask me to upload the WANTS to OLWLG. I will do this once the results are confirmed.
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Francesco T
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New results are ok for me.
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Patrick
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Aw. Bring back the old results, I lost two trades
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Sante Boscolo Chio
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Mosch wrote:
Aw. Bring back the old results, I lost two trades
Sadly, recounts could make things worse.

Luckly I have obtained a new additional trade

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Henk Verleye
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CaptainYossarian wrote:
All of his vouchers are traded for money - so it certainly seems like a very deliberate trade - regardless of the actual letters in the rules, it feels like exploiting a loophole.

+1. This looks to me like a deliberate attempt to exploit a loophole in the rules.

In my opinion, at least one side of any trade should be game-related (basegame, expansion, promo, accessory, etc...)
A math trade isn't a bank, where you can exchange one kind of "valuta" into another kind (the respective values of two "valuta" is not even relevant to this).

We are gamers, and fair play should be our greatest virtue.
Seeking to exploit a loophole is not acceptable at a game table, and certainly shouldn't be tolerated in a math trade, where mutual trust is essential.
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Danny van Holten
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Question. I see now that in one of my trades rule 3B was not correctly followed. The image was not correct. This actually doesn't make me want the game. What is the correct procedure here?

Quote:
3b) For each item offered you must provide the following information:

Title:
Publisher:
Version / Year Published:
Language(s):
Condition:
Availability at SPIEL: (e.g.: Wed, Thu, Fri, Sat, Sun)

Image: Make sure to select the image actually corresponding to the offered version of your game.

Sorry: I see now that I'd better had sent a geekmail.
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Francesco T
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Btw, I think that in some cases it's better to point out the problem.

Now if someone is willing to fullify your unwanted trade (in your case giving 5 euros for a game) there would be no need for a rerun of the results.

For example if it's camel cup or minutes to midnight I may be interested.
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Sebastian
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Last game on the list is Pandemic - for 5 EURO in English sounds like a bargain to me. It should be easy for anybody (ON FRIDAY) to jump in, I think.
 
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Danny van Holten
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Well. I'm ok with it Should've checked better. Not too big of a problem.
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Ben P.
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The results are confirmed. Happy trading!

Remember that using the BGG Trade Manager is encouraged and that cash trades are considered sales and have to go through the BGG marketplace.

Stay tuned for the Leftovers Trade coming up in a few days.
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Tadej Vengust
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cuazzel wrote:
The results are confirmed. Happy trading!

Remember that using the BGG Trade Manager is encouraged and that cash trades are considered sales and have to go through the BGG marketplace.

Stay tuned for the Leftovers Trade coming up in a few days.

Is possible to close results in OLWLG, so that we could see "who wanted mine"
 
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Pete & SO
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Just two thoughts on etiquette (if I observed them correctly) for new participants:

1. It seems to be customary to send out trade proposals if you are the "Giver", and as the "Recipient" to wait for such proposal at least for a little while.

2. If you are the "Giver" in the trade and do not receive anything in return from your respective "Recipients", do not rate these trade partners "neutral", because it might be interpreted as "negative": If you didn't have any problems with them or if they were especially nice and easy to communicate with, just give a positive rating or just don't rate them at all in order to not give a sub-positive rating, thanks modest .
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Hilko Drude
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Goettingen
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What are you doing!? I don't even know you!
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bluepirate77 wrote:
Just two thoughts on etiquette (if I observed them correctly) for new participants:

1. It seems to be customary to send out trade proposals if you are the "Giver", and as the "Recipient" to wait for such proposal at least for a little while.

2. If you are the "Giver" in the trade and do not receive anything in return from your respective "Recipients", do not rate these trade partners "neutral", because it might be interpreted as "negative": If you didn't have any problems with them or if they were especially nice and easy to communicate with, just give a positive rating or just don't rate them at all in order to not give a sub-positive rating, thanks modest .

1. I sent out trade proposals to both receivers and givers of my games. I have only four transactions to do and am happy to take the work off the shoulders of those with 20. I don't think there is any rule here - but the receiver can only suggest a trade if the giver has marked the game as "for trade". If not, there is no need to rush them indeed.

2. Yes, that's good advice.
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Rudi van Pelt
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Lekkerkerk
Zuid Holland
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So now that the same list became the leftover list, what should I do with the items that got traded? Remove or strike them?
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