Recommend
14 
 Thumb up
 Hide
41 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Caylus 1303» Forums » General

Subject: Rules Posted rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Mike Marentette
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Space Cowboys has a product page and rules have been posted at:

https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/59baa2_446d9b17f3814d9883a8f7...

I don't have a lot of experience with the original game and I would be curious to learn what people think of the new version compared to the original. Sometimes streamlined games can be better (e.g. Pax Pamir) or sometimes they can be worse (e.g. A Study in Emerald).
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Thompson
United States
Homewood
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In a word...

unrecognizable
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin Rizzo
United States
Griffith
Indiana
flag msg tools
It's probably not as good as everyone says it is....
badge
Avatar
Microbadge: Bah, Humbug!Microbadge: I Hate WinterMicrobadge: I've played games in ItalyMicrobadge: Bubble Tea loverMicrobadge: Citizenship Recognition - Level IV - The journey of a thousand crits begins with a single roll...
Tompy wrote:
In a word...

unrecognizable
How do you mean?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Thompson
United States
Homewood
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Compared to the Caylus I have played.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
A Huynh
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tompy wrote:
In a word...

unrecognizable
You're free to keep the old version of Caylus and play that, I don't see how this new version has to be "recognizable" to you. Is the design somehow invalid because it's departed too much from the original?.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Long Pants Tramp
Finland
Helsinki
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think "unrecognizable" was a rather neutral comment, nothing positive or negative about it.

Reading the rules, it feels definitely like a streamlined version except with variable player powers added.
13 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Louis M
Canada
Quebec
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
I really like what I see in this new rulebook. With so many changing variables the puzzle is going to be totally different each time. To be honest I haven't played regular Caylus for some time, but everything I remember I liked, is present in the new game. Spending workers and building residences for them feels different and thematic. Special powers are new, but they seem moderate, nothing to throw the balance off. Looks like the game did not lose any depth or interactivity, and if it really plays that much faster it's going to be a winner. Of course the game needs to be balanced, but let's trust the designer and publisher on that subject. I hope this plays as well as I imagine it does from the rules.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Björn
Germany
Frankfurt am Main
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tompy wrote:
In a word...

unrecognizable
So you didn't recognize all the components that stayed the same? Or the provost that seems to do something very similar? Or the board layout?

Sorry, unrecognizable is just objectively wrong.

A lot of things seem to have changed, but definitely not towards unrecognizability
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin Rizzo
United States
Griffith
Indiana
flag msg tools
It's probably not as good as everyone says it is....
badge
Avatar
Microbadge: Bah, Humbug!Microbadge: I Hate WinterMicrobadge: I've played games in ItalyMicrobadge: Bubble Tea loverMicrobadge: Citizenship Recognition - Level IV - The journey of a thousand crits begins with a single roll...
goldeneyeonline wrote:
Tompy wrote:
In a word...

unrecognizable
So you didn't recognize all the components that stayed the same? Or the provost that seems to do something very similar? Or the board layout?

Sorry, unrecognizable is just objectively wrong.

A lot of things seem to have changed, but definitely not towards unrecognizability
That's what I was thinking.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Thompson
United States
Homewood
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mr. L.P. Tramp,

Thank you for reading my comment using the english language and being objectively correct.

I am extremely relieved o hear I am able to keep my old version.

Sincerely,
Tompy
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Manos Velivassakis
Greece
Athens
Attiki
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb


Well, as Caylus is one of my favourites games here is my opinion after a quick reading of the rules:

- ARTWORK -
It just works well.Pleasant at eye, clear to play, but nothing special. E

- GAMEPLAY -

- Character tiles are distributed during setup. Variable player powers is an element that I like very much in games. N

- There is a fix number of rounds (9). I prefer the old somehow unpredictable number of turns. SE

- There are no coins. Action costs are intergrated into the number of workers required to place and / or spend. As a result many buildings are different. For example, you spend workers (instead of coins) to gain prestige by using Church building. It seems more streamlined but I worry that this is a major "sacrifice" which undermines the tactical aspect of the game. We'll see. E

-There is no favor table to race any more, but there is the construction site where a player uses a gained favor to benefit from buildings placed there during setup or steal a character from another player. You score a fix number of 5 PP for every batch you deliver. I don't like this change. I think original system was more intriguing. You don't compete anymore for the most building elements per castle area. SE

- There is no income phase (since there are no coins), but there is a new phase in the end of each turn: Stewardship. In this phase, players can actually upgrade buildings by paying the depicted costs. Furthermore players gain workers in this phase. E


-CONCLUSION-

It seems like a lighter version of the original game. For those owning the old game, I don't think there is a reason to buy the new version. I am only jealous of the character tiles but anything else seems a downgrade in favor of simplicity, which is not a bad thing but targets mostly to new players of Caylus. I would prefer an expansion enhancing the experience of the original game. Still it seems a very good game that I would like to try.


23 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin Rizzo
United States
Griffith
Indiana
flag msg tools
It's probably not as good as everyone says it is....
badge
Avatar
Microbadge: Bah, Humbug!Microbadge: I Hate WinterMicrobadge: I've played games in ItalyMicrobadge: Bubble Tea loverMicrobadge: Citizenship Recognition - Level IV - The journey of a thousand crits begins with a single roll...
Tompy wrote:
Mr. L.P. Tramp,

Thank you for reading my comment using the english language and being objectively correct.

I am extremely relieved o hear I am able to keep my old version.

Sincerely,
Tompy
I think the point was that not as to whether your comment was negative or positive, but rather that it was inaccurate.

The game is not "unrecognizable" from the original. If it were to release without the name "Caylus" in the title everyone would be quick to point out that this is basically a re-implementation of Caylus. I don't think any reasonable person would say "no, this is entirely it's own thing".
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Thompson
United States
Homewood
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
JustinRRizzo wrote:
Tompy wrote:
Mr. L.P. Tramp,

Thank you for reading my comment using the english language and being objectively correct.

I am extremely relieved o hear I am able to keep my old version.

Sincerely,
Tompy
I think the point was that not as to whether your comment was negative or positive, but rather that it was inaccurate.

The game is not "unrecognizable" from the original. If it were to release without the name "Caylus" in the title everyone would be quick to point out that this is basically a re-implementation of Caylus. I don't think any reasonable person would say "no, this is entirely it's own thing".
Then I guess I am unreasonable. Of course, me being unreasonable is only my opinion, and while my opinion is not incorrect, the proportion of my reasonableness in regard to my previous statement could be difficult or impossible to understand.

Let me use more words...

This game is not Caylus. This game is a separate game which uses similar concepts and mechanisms. However where the games have similarities, it is my (oh so humble) opinion that the 2 games are different enough to make the new game unrecognizable from the original.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Marentette
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
I have no problem with owning multiple versions of certain games when they are sufficiently different, yet interesting in their own way. I own different versions History of the World, Pax Pamir and Hannibal: Rome vs. Carthage.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Forest Hills
New York
flag msg tools
Instead of harping over someone's very reasonable use of exaggeration to convey their feelings, I'll put forth some stronger words: These changes actually do make the game very different, and in my opinion they are mostly bad.

Caylus was a tight/tense game and this just seems like a friendlier dumbed down version. Workers are no longer limited, having to use a valuable worker/turn to secure future turn order is gone, removing penalties for the castle is bad because forcing people to build acted a a tempo damper for their engine building (which you could choose to bypass for point loss).

In a market saturated with friendly low pressure middle weight euros, Caylus and Agricola were two standout examples of more restrictive high pressure designs. Why you would want to morph this into just another point salad euro is beyond me, doubly so for why you would still want to call it Caylus instead of just making a different game.



6 
 Thumb up
2.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Louis M
Canada
Quebec
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
It’s obvious that you haven’t actually read the rulebook. Workers are not limited? They became the main currency! Of course they are limited. And to become first player, you now need to pass early, potentially allowing your opponents to take many more actions than you do. To me it seems actually more cutthroat and interactive, not less. All the core Caylus mecanisms are there, it looks very far from a « low pressure point salad ». Of course it’s to be expected that many fans of the original will criticize any changes to their beloved game, but this does not make any sense.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
A Huynh
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tompy wrote:
This game is not Caylus. This game is a separate game which uses similar concepts and mechanisms. However where the games have similarities, it is my (oh so humble) opinion that the 2 games are different enough to make the new game unrecognizable from the original.
TRUE, this game is not Caylus, nice observation! It's Caylus 1303

Seriously though, why go on a forum for a revised edition of a game (where it was announced early on that there were major changes to the gameplay) and makes a comment saying that it's different from the original game.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Forest Hills
New York
flag msg tools
lm_3 wrote:
It’s obvious that you haven’t actually read the rulebook. Workers are not limited? They became the main currency! Of course they are limited. And to become first player, you now need to pass early, potentially allowing your opponents to take many more actions than you do. To me it seems actually more cutthroat and interactive, not less. All the core Caylus mecanisms are there, it looks very far from a « low pressure point salad ». Of course it’s to be expected that many fans of the original will criticize any changes to their beloved game, but this does not make any sense.
That's an interesting obvious observation, as I have read the rules.

Yes, workers are "literally" limited, but by combining them with money, workers are far more plentiful, and the action economy isn't as strict or limited. I also understood the new passing rule. I just don't agree with your sentiment about it. Competing for a literal slot on the board and using one of your six workers/actions to secure seems far more interactive/restrictive than the old "whoever passes first".

Just because I don't agree with you does not make what I said "not make sense"

I also notice you conveniently didn't bother to comment on the removing of building penalties, which is just a straight up removal of a restrictive mechanic used to create pressure/curb tempo.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Thompson
United States
Homewood
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
katanan wrote:
Tompy wrote:
This game is not Caylus. This game is a separate game which uses similar concepts and mechanisms. However where the games have similarities, it is my (oh so humble) opinion that the 2 games are different enough to make the new game unrecognizable from the original.
TRUE, this game is not Caylus, nice observation! It's Caylus 1303

Seriously though, why go on a forum for a revised edition of a game (where it was announced early on that there were major changes to the gameplay) and makes a comment saying that it's different from the original game.
So is it a different game or merely a revised edition? I am now confused by your conflicting remarks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
A Huynh
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tompy wrote:
katanan wrote:
Tompy wrote:
This game is not Caylus. This game is a separate game which uses similar concepts and mechanisms. However where the games have similarities, it is my (oh so humble) opinion that the 2 games are different enough to make the new game unrecognizable from the original.
TRUE, this game is not Caylus, nice observation! It's Caylus 1303

Seriously though, why go on a forum for a revised edition of a game (where it was announced early on that there were major changes to the gameplay) and makes a comment saying that it's different from the original game.
So is it a different game or merely a revised edition? I am now confused by your conflicting remarks.
Revised means it's altered/changed, thereby inherently different from the original.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Thompson
United States
Homewood
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
katanan wrote:
Tompy wrote:
katanan wrote:
Tompy wrote:
This game is not Caylus. This game is a separate game which uses similar concepts and mechanisms. However where the games have similarities, it is my (oh so humble) opinion that the 2 games are different enough to make the new game unrecognizable from the original.
TRUE, this game is not Caylus, nice observation! It's Caylus 1303

Seriously though, why go on a forum for a revised edition of a game (where it was announced early on that there were major changes to the gameplay) and makes a comment saying that it's different from the original game.
So is it a different game or merely a revised edition? I am now confused by your conflicting remarks.
Revised means it's altered/changed, thereby inherently different from the original.
Possibly to the point of being unrecognizable?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
A Huynh
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tompy wrote:
katanan wrote:
Tompy wrote:
katanan wrote:
Tompy wrote:
This game is not Caylus. This game is a separate game which uses similar concepts and mechanisms. However where the games have similarities, it is my (oh so humble) opinion that the 2 games are different enough to make the new game unrecognizable from the original.
TRUE, this game is not Caylus, nice observation! It's Caylus 1303

Seriously though, why go on a forum for a revised edition of a game (where it was announced early on that there were major changes to the gameplay) and makes a comment saying that it's different from the original game.
So is it a different game or merely a revised edition? I am now confused by your conflicting remarks.
Revised means it's altered/changed, thereby inherently different from the original.
Possibly to the point of being unrecognizable?
Man, you come to a page for a DIFFERENT GAME and keep complaining that it's unrecognizable. It was well established before the rules were posted that there would be substantial changes from the original, so your observation that it's "unrecognizable" is redundant at best.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Thompson
United States
Homewood
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Not once have I "complained" or even stated that being recognizable or not led to an indication I thought it was an improvement or a disappointment.

Not once.

If you read into it that I did, I apologize.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Louis M
Canada
Quebec
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Phrased that way, I understand better what you mean. I still disagree, but I see your point. Sorry for being injustly harsh.

As for the building penalties, I can see why the designer would remove them. Whether you gain or lose points, what matters in the end is the relative position of players. -2 +3 is the same as 0 +5. Well, it's not exactly the same in practice, but it's close enough that it's resonable to streamine it away. Focusing on the core mechanisms to get a tighter, faster game is a good thing. Having the contributing players getting points, plus getting a special power (potentially stolen from you) seems big enough of an incentive to me. It's the same thing with the amount of points you get from the castle. Reading in the forums, it seems that previous versions of 1303 gave 6-5-4 points depending on the round. It's been changed to a uniform 5. Less focus on the little details with little payoff, more focus on the provost, the resource engine, the workers economy.

It's fun to see people debate so passionately about a game not even released yet. One thing is certain, with a game as good as Caylus the new version has big shoes to fill.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
A Huynh
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tompy wrote:
Not once have I "complained" or even stated that being recognizable or not led to an indication I thought it was an improvement or a disappointment.

Not once.

If you read into it that I did, I apologize.
Still it's redundant and pedantic regardless if you think it's an improvement or a disappointment. There was no commitment from the publisher that this would be a reprint with minor revisions. The designer of the game wanted to revamp/revise the game and the changes were so major that they created a new game BGG page AND retitled it to Caylus 1303. There is no need for it to be "recognizable".

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   |